Rome vs Melchizedek

[Stranger]

Here it is in CONTEXT - something that YOU cannot grasp.

1 Pet. 3:18-22
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved THROUGH water, and this water SYMBOLIZES baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. IT (baptism) SAVES YOU by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Noah and his family weren't saved BY the water - but THROUGH it.
They were saved by the Ark, whereas WE are saved by the waters of Baptism.

That is interesting. You change the salvation by 'water' to the 'ark'. Which destroys completly the illustration. If it is a picture of 'water baptism that saves', which it is, then how does it save? The ark is not the picture of salvation here. The water is. So, how does the water save? And was Noah and his family believers or not?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

interesting to note that people are referred to as "the sea," when contemplating that you must be "baptized" to be "saved."

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is interesting. You change the salvation by 'water' to the 'ark'. Which destroys completly the illustration. If it is a picture of 'water baptism that saves', which it is, then how does it save? The ark is not the picture of salvation here. The water is. So, how does the water save? And was Noah and his family believers or not?

Stranger

Can you read - or is it just a comprehension problem?
Read C*L*O*S*E*L*Y and pay attention to the words that I bolded and underlined.

1 Pet. 3:18-22
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved THROUGH water, and this water SYMBOLIZES baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. IT (baptism) SAVES YOU by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Noah and his family weren't saved BY the water - but THROUGH it.
They were saved by the Ark, whereas WE are saved BY the waters of Baptism - NOT the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

Hope that sticks this time . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The opposite of 'saved' is 'not saved'. Not 'damned'. It all depends on the salvation you are speaking of. The believer is saved from the penalty of sin which is his initial salvation. He then has a walk of salvation, being saved from the corruption and affect the world has on him in this life. He will be later completly saved from the sin in his body by being given a glorified body. Future day. So, you see, saved doesn't always mean being saved from eternity in hell.

No, (Mark 16:16) says that "He that believeth, and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." One can be a believer and be saved from his sins without water baptism. But I don't think one can walk in that salvation without being obedient to the Lord and getting baptized.

Stranger

You have dissected Jesus words in Mark 16:16 to fit YOUR definition of salvation.
This is not exegesis of Scripture but a perversion of it.

Also - your little dance around "saved" and "not saved" is pathetic. You actually believe that "not saved" is NOT damnation??
"Not saved" means you're NOT getting to Heaven. Sounds a LOT like damnation to me . . .

Can you say, "Rationalization"??

 

[BreadOfLife]

1.) The two types of people I am speaking of are those of the sheep nations before the thousand year reign of Christ, and those raised after the thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6) So who are they?

2.) I don't see it in (Ps. 10:10)

3.) Yes, the Church does have the office of bishop. Just not an office for a pope. The Church already exists. Even if not every church has bishops. And, again, do you have pastor/teachers, elders, deacons, saints?

4.) (2Cor. 5:10) and (1Cor.3:11-15) is a judgment of reward only. (14-15) "he shall receive a reward...he shall suffer loss" . The foundation is already laid, (11). The believer is building on it. Therefore this is a different judgment than that of (Matt.25:32) and (Rev. 20:11-15).

5.) The judgment in (Matt. 25:32) takes place on earth. The judgement of rewards takes place in the air. (2Cor.5:10), (1Cor.3:11-15), (1Thess.4:13-17) The Great White Throne judgement is neither in heaven or earth. (Rev. 20:11)

Stranger

1.) We can't discuss this point intelligently until you drop the "Goat Nation" and "Sheep Nation" nonsense because you're blinded by this falsehood.

2.) My mistake - a typo.
Psalm 50:50
". . . for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a THOUSAND hills.
3.) And every "church" that doesn't have Bishops with valid Apostolic Succession is not the Church. It may be a Christian splinter group - but not the Church, by definition. Jesus built ONE Church - not 50,000 disjointed and perpetually-splintering offshoot sects who ALL teach different doctrines and ALL claim to have the "Truth."

4.) And I already told you that 2 Cor. 5:10 is about the General Judgement and 1 Cor. 3:11-15 is about the Particular Judgment.
Not sure which part you're having a problem with . . .

5.) As I educated you earlier - wherever there is God on a Throne in the Bible - it is ALWAYS in Heaven.

If YOU can show me an example of God sitting on a Throne OTHER than in Heaven - I'm ALL ears . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

lol. Maybe if you showed him your crown, or called him some different names?
Because your authoritay is obviously not being properly respected here

 

[BreadOfLife]

lol

Instead of "Lol"-ing, why don't you help out your fellow anti-Catholic friend and produce a verse that shows God sitting on a throne that is NOT in Heaven . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

with all due respect that is a child's understanding, of heaven as a place, because everything has to be somewhere, right?
So imo the premise is incorrect, and therefore nothing that proceeds from it can be correct.
Heaven is not a place, and God is not confined to places, or the physical plane, which is our domain, imo.

i lol because you seem convinced that you can bully people into your belief system, and that you hold some knowledge that others must bow to, on pain of death.
And i can relate, ok, it is a prevalent pov for an emerging Christian, that you can either adopt, or overcome; most likely both, for a while. I was a Pentecostal for years, and they are at least as obnoxious as any blind Catholic, or anyone else consumed by their egos, for that matter. We all desire worship, and crave things to be proud about, to be looked up to by others. But this is exactly what is anathema to Christ; everything else is just window dressing.

So--although i don't mean this the way it will come out--you are currently sure of what you know, which tells me that i may confidently ignore you, at least until you find that "place" where you do not know, and escape the prison of what you are so sure of, as Scripture directs. Tares are a powerful drug, still sold today for their mind-altering properties. Far be it from me to define the Unknown God, even if i still try sometimes; however, it might be seen that "God sitting on a throne" might have a spiritual significance, that our common symbology of a white-haired guy actually sitting on an actual throne is made moot by. God is Spirit, and replacing the anthropomorphic symbology will change your premise--because if God is sitting on a throne somewhere, then by definition He cannot be anywhere else, right.

i realize that you think you are defending the faith, and should be commended for that, but there is a difference in faith and beliefs, as "Love believes all things" points to; Love does not "have faith in all things," but rather "believes all things." Meaning that your symbology of God on a throne in heaven is fine, ok, and there is nothing wrong with what you believe right now, if you are seeking God.

 

[Mungo]

Heaven and hell are not the subject in (1Peter 3:20-21) The eight souls that were saved by water were already believers. That is why they were in the ark. The waters of the flood saved them like baptism saves us, destroying the worlds affect on us and giving us the answer of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is important in our walk of salvation. Not in getting us from a lost to a saved state. Baptism is part of our salvation that we work out with fear and trembling while on earth. (Philp. 2:12)

Stranger

As Bread|OfLife is already dealing with your error here I will not repeat the argument.

 

[bbyrd009]

"He who says he knows does not yet know."

 

[BreadOfLife]

with all due respect that is a child's understanding, of heaven as a place, because everything has to be somewhere, right?
So imo the premise is incorrect, and therefore nothing that proceeds from it can be correct.
Heaven is not a place, and God is not confined to places, or the physical plane, which is our domain, imo.

i lol because you seem convinced that you can bully people into your belief system, and that you hold some knowledge that others must bow to, on pain of death.
And i can relate, ok, it is a prevalent pov for an emerging Christian, that you can either adopt, or overcome; most likely both, for a while. I was a Pentecostal for years, and they are at least as obnoxious as any blind Catholic, or anyone else consumed by their egos, for that matter. We all desire worship, and crave things to be proud about, to be looked up to by others. But this is exactly what is anathema to Christ; everything else is just window dressing.

So--although i don't mean this the way it will come out--you are currently sure of what you know, which tells me that i may confidently ignore you, at least until you find that "place" where you do not know, and escape the prison of what you are so sure of, as Scripture directs. Tares are a powerful drug, still sold today for their mind-altering properties. Far be it from me to define the Unknown God, even if i still try sometimes; however, it might be seen that "God sitting on a throne" might have a spiritual significance, that our common symbology of a white-haired guy actually sitting on an actual throne is made moot by. God is Spirit, and replacing the anthropomorphic symbology will change your premise--because if God is sitting on a throne somewhere, then by definition He cannot be anywhere else, right.

i realize that you think you are defending the faith, and should be commended for that, but there is a difference in faith and beliefs, as "Love believes all things" points to; Love does not "have faith in all things," but rather "believes all things." Meaning that your symbology of God on a throne in heaven is fine, ok, and there is nothing wrong with what you believe right now, if you are seeking God.

I'm not trying to "bully" anybody into accepting Catholic Doctrine.
All I do here is to expose lies against the Church and to set the record straight.

You can continue to be as lost as you seem.
Nobody is going to "bully" you - but I might expose you . . .

 

[Stranger]

Can you read - or is it just a comprehension problem?
Read C*L*O*S*E*L*Y and pay attention to the words that I bolded and underlined.

1 Pet. 3:18-22
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved THROUGH water, and this water SYMBOLIZES baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. IT (baptism) SAVES YOU by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Noah and his family weren't saved BY the water - but THROUGH it.
They were saved by the Ark, whereas WE are saved BY the waters of Baptism - NOT the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

Hope that sticks this time . . .

No, they were not saved by the ark. They were saved by water. Whether you want to say 'through water' or I say, as the Bible says, 'by water', it is the water that saves. It is the water that pictures baptism, not the ark. So, again, how does the water save? And, were Noah and his family believers or not? Please answer.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You have dissected Jesus words in Mark 16:16 to fit YOUR definition of salvation.
This is not exegesis of Scripture but a perversion of it.

Also - your little dance around "saved" and "not saved" is pathetic. You actually believe that "not saved" is NOT damnation??
"Not saved" means you're NOT getting to Heaven. Sounds a LOT like damnation to me . . .

Can you say, "Rationalization"??

Well, isn't the 'believer' to work out his salvation with fear and trembling? But the believer is already saved. Yet salvation is still a process. (Phil.2:12) " Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Thus, salvation doesn't always speak to going to heaven or hell.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

1.) We can't discuss this point intelligently until you drop the "Goat Nation" and "Sheep Nation" nonsense because you're blinded by this falsehood.

2.) My mistake - a typo.
Psalm 50:50
". . . for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a THOUSAND hills.
3.) And every "church" that doesn't have Bishops with valid Apostolic Succession is not the Church. It may be a Christian splinter group - but not the Church, by definition. Jesus built ONE Church - not 50,000 disjointed and perpetually-splintering offshoot sects who ALL teach different doctrines and ALL claim to have the "Truth."

4.) And I already told you that 2 Cor. 5:10 is about the General Judgement and 1 Cor. 3:11-15 is about the Particular Judgment.
Not sure which part you're having a problem with . . .

5.) As I educated you earlier - wherever there is God on a Throne in the Bible - it is ALWAYS in Heaven.

If YOU can show me an example of God sitting on a Throne OTHER than in Heaven - I'm ALL ears . . .

1.) Again, the two types of people I refer to are the individuals of the sheep nations and those raised from the dead 1000 years later. Please address these. (Matt. 25:32-34) and (Rev. 20:4-6)

2.) Do you own a Bible?

3.) Says you. And the Roman Church.

4.) I don't have a problem with (2Cor. 5:10), and (1Cor.3:11-15). They are clearly a judgment of rewards. They clearly say so. Thus they are a different judgment than the one in (Matt. 25:32) and the one in (Rev. 20:4-6).

5.) Except (Matt. 25:32) takes place on earth. And (2 Cor. 5:10, 1Cor. 3:11-15,) take place in the air. (1Thess. 4:13-17). And the Great White Throne Judgement takes place neither in heaven or the earth. (Rev. 20:11).

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm not trying to "bully" anybody into accepting Catholic Doctrine.
All I do here is to expose lies against the Church and to set the record straight.

You can continue to be as lost as you seem.
Nobody is going to "bully" you - but I might expose you . . .

ok, you be the judge, then...just be sure in your own mind.

 

[BreadOfLife]

1.) Again, the two types of people I refer to are the individuals of the sheep nations and those raised from the dead 1000 years later. Please address these. (Matt. 25:32-34) and (Rev. 20:4-6)

2.) Do you own a Bible?

3.) Says you. And the Roman Church.

4.) I don't have a problem with (2Cor. 5:10), and (1Cor.3:11-15). They are clearly a judgment of rewards. They clearly say so. Thus they are a different judgment than the one in (Matt. 25:32) and the one in (Rev. 20:4-6).

5.) Except (Matt. 25:32) takes place on earth. And (2 Cor. 5:10, 1Cor. 3:11-15,) take place in the air. (1Thess. 4:13-17). And the Great White Throne Judgement takes place neither in heaven or the earth. (Rev. 20:11).

Stranger

1.) YOU can't have an intelligent discussion about this yet because you are still clinging to a falsehood regarding Sheep and Goat "Nations".
I don't know HOW many times I have to tell you - God doesn't grade on a curve . . .

2.) And there I go, typing too fast again.
Psalm 50:10
". . . for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a THOUSAND hills.

3.) No - says the BIBLE . . .

4.) And once again you have perverted the Scriptures to fit your little bizarro world.
Only TWO Judgments are spoken of in Scripture - not FOUR . . .

5.) BOTH Judgments take place before the throne of God. WHERE is His throne??
In HEAVEN.

If YOU can show me an example of God sitting on a Throne OTHER than in Heaven - I'm ALL ears . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

ok, you be the judge, then...just be sure in your own mind.

Better than that - I'm sure by Scripture and the Authority of the Church.

 

[bbyrd009]

Better than that - I'm sure by Scripture and the Authority of the Church.

ok i'm going to cut you a break since i know how embarrassed of all of your posts here you are going to be in about 10 years lol

 

[BreadOfLife]

ok i'm going to cut you a break since i know how embarrassed of all of your posts here you are going to be in about 10 years lol

Unlike YOU - I'll never be embarrassed of my faith or the truth.

Oh, ummm . . . "LOL" . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

ha, yikes. ok then.