Rome vs Melchizedek

[Mungo]

Christ is our Paschal Lamb.
I still want to hear your explanation about how the Catholic Church created the Easter Bunny, egg rolls or fertility rites.

And you dodged my question about Easter eggs.
Is it because you don't know - or because you found out and don't want to be humiliated?

bbyrd009 is either extremely stupid or is just trolling.

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd009 is either extremely stupid or is just trolling.

maybe, but at least i'm not calling people names and attacking them every chance i get, and i can see fertility rites without a roadmap lol. Whatever makes you feel superior, poseur.

 

[Mungo]

maybe, but at least i'm not calling people names and attacking them every chance i get, and i can see fertility rites without a roadmap lol. Whatever makes you feel superior, poseur.

Well done. That was almost a coherent sentence.

 

[Mungo]

[SIZE=10.5pt] For your information – MOST of the world uses different variations of the word “Pascha” when speaking of Easter, which is a transliteration of the Hebrew word “Pesach”, or Passover.. Some variations include Pasqua, Pascua, Paques, Pasch, etc.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt].[/SIZE]

I've already told him that (see post #59) but he has no intention of answering points made or entering a rational discussion. He's just trolling.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Concerning (Matt.25:32), " And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another..."
Concerning (James 2:14-26), No problem with it teaching a true faith. But it's a faith the believer already has as proved by the example of Abraham. (James 2:21-23)
Concerning (Matt. 23:37), No problem with it teaching that Jerusalem rejects their Messiah. But it doesn't teach that a believer can lose their salvation.
Concerning (Eph. 2:8-9), If you didn't obtain eternal life by works, then you can't lose it by insufficient works. And (Eph. 2:8-9) are clear that it is by faith, or as (John 11:25-26) says, 'belief'.

I don't do long lists of Scripture because they are a smoke screen.

Concerning (Rom.11:22), I already addressed it. It speaks to Israel and Gentiles. Not the individual believer. (Rom.11:7) "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for...." And (Rom. 11:13) "For I speak to you Gentiles....) See again my post #88.

Concerning (Heb.10:26-27) A warning yes. But not a loss of salvation. Judgement, yes. But not a loss of salvation. The phrase "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" is explained by context, which I know you appreciate. Turn back to (Heb.10:17-18) " And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." So you see, with Jesus Christ there remains no more sacrifice for sins. He is the one and only. No loss of salvation. But certainly a judgement against wilful sin.

Concerning (2Peter 2:20-22), This concerns false prophets and teachers. Context. (2Peter 2:1) " But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you...." They have a knowledge but they are not saved. This is clearly seen in the illustration given in (2Peter 2:22) "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." The sow was still a sow. No change. The dog was still a dog. This is not a picture of a believer. It is a false prophet and teacher.

That's enough for now. I will look at the rest later.

Stranger

Wrong.

Regarding Matt. 25:32 - your take on the Judgement is completely anti-Biblical. The Greek word used here ετηνοσ (eth'-nos) is far more broad than you indicate. It doesn’t simply mean “nation” – but also refers to a group of individuals.

NOWHERE do the Scriptures indicate that we will be judged on a curve or in a group. It says that we will be individually judged (Prov. 21:2, Matt. 7:1, Matt. 12:36, Mark 16:16, Luke 6:37, John 12:48, Heb. 9:27, Heb. 13:4, Rev. 20:12).

Regarding James 2:14-26 – you’ve manages to pervert this passage as well.
James is talking about true faith, which includes works. It’s not faith AND works – they go hand in hand.
He isn’t saying that the person already has faith. He is saying that a person cannot have faith UNLESS they do good works.

As for Matt. 23:37 - I never said that it was about LOSING faith. I said that it is clear evidence that although God wills the salvation of ALL (1 Tim. 2:3-4) – His will is NOT always done.

Eph. 2:8-9 is about how we are saved by our faith and assumes that the reader understand what TRUE faith is.
The same is true for John 11:25-26, which talks about “belief”. Jesus makes this abundantly clear in Matt 7:21-23, speaking about those who will be condemned - even though they “believed”:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES THE WILL of my Father in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’

As for 2 Peter 2:20-22 – whether it is about false teachers or anybody else, the fact remains: They had a FULL, experiential knowledge (Epignosis) – not just a casual knowledge (Oida/Gnosis). These people were believing Chrsitians and lost their secure place (2 Peter 3:17). I knew you would completely ignore the linguistic implications of Epignosis . . .

Regarding Rom.11:22 – it doesn’t matter WHO Paul is referring to. The fact remains that they were ONCE in God’s favor and may LOSE that favor with God.

Finally, as to Heb.10:26-27 – it is talking about the “Fearful prospect of judgement” for those who fall from grace. What is there to “Fear” for a “saved” person who is going to Heaven??
Your position makes absolutely zero sense.

Finally – HOW is a long list of Scriptural evidence a “smoke screen"??
The longer the list - the more the evidence.

 

[BreadOfLife]

maybe, but at least i'm not calling people names and attacking them every chance i get, and i can see fertility rites without a roadmap lol. Whatever makes you feel superior, poseur.

Really?? What "fertility rites" does the Catholic Church practice or teach??
Can you answer that - or do you enjoy being exposed for lying?

As for "name-calling" - WHO called you a name??

 

[tom55]

Chapter and verse.

Stranger

biblegateway.com or google or bing can help you with your research.

I don't want you to accept my word. I want you to disover the truth for yourself.

I find your (lack of a legitimate) response interesting.

 

[Stranger]

Wrong.

Regarding Matt. 25:32 - your take on the Judgement is completely anti-Biblical. The Greek word used here ετηνοσ (eth'-nos) is far more broad than you indicate. It doesn’t simply mean “nation” – but also refers to a group of individuals.

NOWHERE do the Scriptures indicate that we will be judged on a curve or in a group. It says that we will be individually judged (Prov. 21:2, Matt. 7:1, Matt. 12:36, Mark 16:16, Luke 6:37, John 12:48, Heb. 9:27, Heb. 13:4, Rev. 20:12).

Regarding James 2:14-26 – you’ve manages to pervert this passage as well.
James is talking about true faith, which includes works. It’s not faith AND works – they go hand in hand.
He isn’t saying that the person already has faith. He is saying that a person cannot have faith UNLESS they do good works.

As for Matt. 23:37 - I never said that it was about LOSING faith. I said that it is clear evidence that although God wills the salvation of ALL (1 Tim. 2:3-4) – His will is NOT always done.

Eph. 2:8-9 is about how we are saved by our faith and assumes that the reader understand what TRUE faith is.
The same is true for John 11:25-26, which talks about “belief”. Jesus makes this abundantly clear in Matt 7:21-23, speaking about those who will be condemned - even though they “believed”:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES THE WILL of my Father in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’

As for 2 Peter 2:20-22 – whether it is about false teachers or anybody else, the fact remains: They had a FULL, experiential knowledge (Epignosis) – not just a casual knowledge (Oida/Gnosis). These people were believing Chrsitians and lost their secure place (2 Peter 3:17). I knew you would completely ignore the linguistic implications of Epignosis . . .

Regarding Rom.11:22 – it doesn’t matter WHO Paul is referring to. The fact remains that they were ONCE in God’s favor and may LOSE that favor with God.

Finally, as to Heb.10:26-27 – it is talking about the “Fearful prospect of judgement” for those who fall from grace. What is there to “Fear” for a “saved” person who is going to Heaven??
Your position makes absolutely zero sense.

Finally – HOW is a long list of Scriptural evidence a “smoke screen"??
The longer the list - the more the evidence.

(Matt. 25:32) says nations, but it doesn't mean nations? OK. There is nothing more we can say concerning it.

I never said anyone is judged on a curve. But there are different judgments.

Concerning James 2:14-26, again, read (James 2:21-23). Abraham was already declared righteous by God through faith. See (Gen.15:6). It is undeniable. The works in question are not to obtain salvation but are the product of salvation.

Concerning Matt. 23:37, you gave it in response to what I said about (Eph. 2:8-9).

Matt. 7:21-23 says nothing about the faith of a believer. That is your addition.

Concerning (2Peter 2:20-22), they had a knowledge but were not believers. Big difference.

Concerning (Rom.11:22), really? You give me this great speech of 'context'. Then you tell me now, context doesn't matter. You're a trip.

Concerning (Heb. 10:26-27), you offer nothing in response to what I said. Context killed you. You, who like to use 'context' as a tool to lie.

The longer the list, the more you hope others will think you know what you are talking about. The longer the list the more you hope the one you are debating will not respond. Smoke Screen.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

biblegateway.com or google or bing can help you with your research.

I don't want you to accept my word. I want you to disover the truth for yourself.

I find your (lack of a legitimate) response interesting.

I do my own research. Appreciate the offer.

Well, interesting is good.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

(Matt. 25:32) says nations, but it doesn't mean nations? OK. There is nothing more we can say concerning it.

I never said anyone is judged on a curve. But there are different judgments.

Concerning James 2:14-26, again, read (James 2:21-23). Abraham was already declared righteous by God through faith. See (Gen.15:6). It is undeniable. The works in question are not to obtain salvation but are the product of salvation.

Concerning Matt. 23:37, you gave it in response to what I said about (Eph. 2:8-9).

Matt. 7:21-23 says nothing about the faith of a believer. That is your addition.

Concerning (2Peter 2:20-22), they had a knowledge but were not believers. Big difference.

Concerning (Rom.11:22), really? You give me this great speech of 'context'. Then you tell me now, context doesn't matter. You're a trip.

Concerning (Heb. 10:26-27), you offer nothing in response to what I said. Context killed you. You, who like to use 'context' as a tool to lie.

The longer the list, the more you hope others will think you know what you are talking about. The longer the list the more you hope the one you are debating will not respond. Smoke Screen.

Stranger

NOWHERE in Scripture does it imply that entire nations - every individual in that nation will be judged together.
If that were the case - we'd ALL be doomed. The teaching of the Sheep and the Goats is about INDIVIDUALS being judged:
Matt. 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

As for Abraham . . .
James 2:21
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for WHAT HE DID when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

Regarding 2 Pet. 2:20-22 - your stubbornness and ignorance of Greek is getting in the way.
As I already explained to you, Epignosis is a full EXPERIENTIAL knowledge - not a simply knowledge (oida/Gnosis). This is about believing Christians who fall away and LOSE their salvation.

As for Rom. 11:22 - the context of WHO he is speaking to is irrelevant in light of WHAT he is saying.

Finally - you're argument about Heb. 10:26-27 falls DEAD on arrival because you can't explain why a person who is going to Heaven would be in "Fear" of judgement.

 

[Stranger]

NOWHERE in Scripture does it imply that entire nations - every individual in that nation will be judged together.
If that were the case - we'd ALL be doomed. The teaching of the Sheep and the Goats is about INDIVIDUALS being judged:
Matt. 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

As for Abraham . . .
James 2:21
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for WHAT HE DID when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

Regarding 2 Pet. 2:20-22 - your stubbornness and ignorance of Greek is getting in the way.
As I already explained to you, Epignosis is a full EXPERIENTIAL knowledge - not a simply knowledge (oida/Gnosis). This is about believing Christians who fall away and LOSE their salvation.

As for Rom. 11:22 - the context of WHO he is speaking to is irrelevant in light of WHAT he is saying.

Finally - you're argument about Heb. 10:26-27 falls DEAD on arrival because you can't explain why a person who is going to Heaven would be in "Fear" of judgement.

Sorry, but in (Matt.25:32) nations is exactly what is said. Not implied. "And before him shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from another,..."

Sorry, but the event with the sacrifice of Isaac was much later than when Abraham was declared righteous by God. See (Gen. 15:6 and Gen.22:11-12). Big difference. The works James is speaking of, speak to the product of salvation. Not the origin of salvation.

Perhaps your 'greek' is getting in your way. The context is clear. The subject is false prophets and teachers. (2 Peter 2:1) "False", which means, not true. No believers here. The sow and dogs nature was never changed. They were just washed sows and dogs. (2 Peter 2:22)

Really. Context is irrelevant? So it appears.

The believer should always be in fear of the judgment of God due to his ability to stray away. (Philippians 2:12) "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling...." Doesn't mean he loses his salvation. But, he will come under the judgement of God here.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sorry, but in (Matt.25:32) nations is exactly what is said. Not implied. "And before him shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from another,..."

Sorry, but the event with the sacrifice of Isaac was much later than when Abraham was declared righteous by God. See (Gen. 15:6 and Gen.22:11-12). Big difference. The works James is speaking of, speak to the product of salvation. Not the origin of salvation.

Perhaps your 'greek' is getting in your way. The context is clear. The subject is false prophets and teachers. (2 Peter 2:1) "False", which means, not true. No believers here. The sow and dogs nature was never changed. They were just washed sows and dogs. (2 Peter 2:22)

Really. Context is irrelevant? So it appears.

The believer should always be in fear of the judgment of God due to his ability to stray away. (Philippians 2:12) "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling...." Doesn't mean he loses his salvation. But, he will come under the judgement of God here.

Stranger

WRONG.
The word used in Matt. 25:32 that describes the people of the nations that are being judged is αυτοσ (ow-tos'), which means INDIVIDUALS.
INDIVIDUALS are being judged here - not "nations" as a whole. We will NOT be judged according to which nation we belong to.
Your argument dies right here.

As for Abraham - we read in Genesis what e.
HOWEVER, we read in James 2:21 the explanation of how this happened - unless YOU think James is wrong like Luther did.

As for 2 Pet. talking about false prophets - it doesn't mean that they were NOT Christian.
It means they they WERE Christians who fell away and LOST their salvation.

Context is not your friend because you cherry-pick the Scriptures and twist them to your own destruction.

 

[Stranger]

WRONG.
The word used in Matt. 25:32 that describes the people of the nations that are being judged is αυτοσ (ow-tos'), which means INDIVIDUALS.
INDIVIDUALS are being judged here - not "nations" as a whole. We will NOT be judged according to which nation we belong to.
Your argument dies right here.

As for Abraham - we read in Genesis what e.
HOWEVER, we read in James 2:21 the explanation of how this happened - unless YOU think James is wrong like Luther did.

As for 2 Pet. talking about false prophets - it doesn't mean that they were NOT Christian.
It means they they WERE Christians who fell away and LOST their salvation.

Context is not your friend because you cherry-pick the Scriptures and twist them to your own destruction.

Please pay attention. No one said the individual is judged according to the nation. But the nations are judged. My argument doesn't die because (Matt.25:32) is clear. It is the judgement of nations.

No, James is correct. It is you that is wrong. James is clear that he is speaking of works as the product of salvation. Which he demonstrates in (James 2:21-23).

(2 Peter 2:22) is clear. The false prophets and teachers were never saved. They were just washed hogs and dogs. They were never changed.

Context is my friend. You're the one that said context didn't mean anything. Remember? Now it bites you.

Yes, yes, I know. You're good with the 'buzz words'. 'Cherry pick' and 'dodge'. Seems that reflects more on you than those you speak to. mho.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

BreadOfLife

To continue from your list in post #97.

(Matt. 5:13) This speaks to the effectiveness of the believer on the earth. If he loses that effectiveness, due to sin or worldly living, then he is of no benefit to God in using him. He is cast out, not into hell, but to be trodden under foot of men. No loss of salvation here.

(1Cor. 9:27) Castaway means disapproved. Paul is not talking about obtaining salvation. He is talking about running the race to obtain crowns and rewards. (1Cor.9:24-25) " Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." Loss of reward, not salvation.

(2Peter 3:17) The error of the wicked is the teaching that Christ will not come again. See (2Peter 3:3-4) " Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?" See (2Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;..." See now (2Peter 3:17) "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from you own stedfastness." The warning is not sending them to hell. It is falling from their steadfastness in the knowledge of Christs Second Coming. No loss of salvation.

(1John 2:24) This is a warning for the purpose of being able to continue in the fellowship of the Father and Son. See (1John 1:3) "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." Concerning the Holy Spirit, they already have the Holy Spirit. See (1John 2:27) "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you...." Then we learn to abide in Him. (1John 2:28) " And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." So, if you don't abide in the Spirit, which taught you the truth of the Father and the Son, you will not continue in the fellowship of the Father and the Son. And, if Christ's return finds you in this condition, you will lack confidence and be ashamed. No loss of salvation.

Stranger

 

[epostle1]

BreadOfLife

To continue from your list in post #97.

(Matt. 5:13) This speaks to the effectiveness of the believer on the earth. If he loses that effectiveness, due to sin or worldly living, then he is of no benefit to God in using him. He is cast out, not into hell, but to be trodden under foot of men. No loss of salvation here.

It's not heaven either.
(1Cor. 9:27) Castaway means disapproved. Paul is not talking about obtaining salvation. He is talking about running the race to obtain crowns and rewards.

Yup, And you have obtained your crowns and rewards so there is no need to run, no need to persevere.

(1Cor.9:24-25) " Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." Loss of reward, not salvation.

Why run at all if you have already obtained? I think you are missing Paul's point.

(2Peter 3:17) The error of the wicked is the teaching that Christ will not come again. See (2Peter 3:3-4) " Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?" See (2Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;..." See now (2Peter 3:17) "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from you own stedfastness." The warning is not sending them to hell. It is falling from their steadfastness in the knowledge of Christs Second Coming. No loss of salvation.

None of these verses say salvation is assured. In fact, nothing in the whole Bible says salvation is assured. It's an invention by John Calvin in the 15th century.

(1John 2:24) This is a warning for the purpose of being able to continue in the fellowship of the Father and Son. See (1John 1:3) "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." Concerning the Holy Spirit, they already have the Holy Spirit. See (1John 2:27) "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you...." Then we learn to abide in Him. (1John 2:28) " And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." So, if you don't abide in the Spirit, which taught you the truth of the Father and the Son, you will not continue in the fellowship of the Father and the Son. And, if Christ's return finds you in this condition, you will lack confidence and be ashamed. No loss of salvation.

The Church teaches that one can have a moral assurance of salvation; we can be certain that one who dies in the state of grace will be saved. We can be sure that by all indications, according to our fallible human judgment, we are in the state of grace. But we cannot be certain that we are in the state of grace, because grace cannot be sensed.

 

[bbyrd009]

I've already told him that (see post #59) but he has no intention of answering points made or entering a rational discussion. He's just trolling.

hey, i'm trolling, ok, but i'm not the one who doesn't recognize Passover, except maybe as an afterthought. Or that cannot quote Easter in Scripture, yet defends it.
If you think to change times and days, then i only suggest that you be sure in your own mind; and you guys seem pretty convinced. I don't bother with your points, i hope you understand, because they proceed from a false premise, that you have not acknowledged. You cannot replace Passover with Easter in Scripture, unless you accept a corrupted Bible. I'm still partial to Easter and candy and bunnies myself, but it just aint in there.

 

[Stranger]

BreadOfLife

To continue from your list in your post #97

(Rev.3:5) How this verse is supposed to teach the loss of salvation is beyond me. God says, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white rainment: and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. Why do believers want to read it as saying "I will blot out his name". God clearly says He won't. The overcomer is the believer. (1John 5:5) " Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" This teaches that the believer cannot lose his salvation.

(Rev. 22:18-19) These verses are not addressed to Christians. They are addressed to 'any man'. Just like at the close of (22:17) where it is addressed to 'whosoever will'. Why would a Christian add or take away from the words of this book? He wouldn't. The book of Revelation is so important to God that He lays down a law concerning it, that reaches not just His people, but every man.

Stranger

 

[Mungo]

hey, i'm trolling, ok, but i'm not the one who doesn't recognize Passover, except maybe as an afterthought. Or that cannot quote Easter in Scripture, yet defends it.
If you think to change times and days, then i only suggest that you be sure in your own mind; and you guys seem pretty convinced. I don't bother with your points, i hope you understand, because they proceed from a false premise, that you have not acknowledged. You cannot replace Passover with Easter in Scripture, unless you accept a corrupted Bible. I'm still partial to Easter and candy and bunnies myself, but it just aint in there.

As I said - you have no intention of entering a rational discussion. You seem functionally incapable even if you tried.

So yes. you are just trolling here.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please pay attention. No one said the individual is judged according to the nation. But the nations are judged. My argument doesn't die because (Matt.25:32) is clear. It is the judgement of nations.

No, James is correct. It is you that is wrong. James is clear that he is speaking of works as the product of salvation. Which he demonstrates in (James 2:21-23).

(2 Peter 2:22) is clear. The false prophets and teachers were never saved. They were just washed hogs and dogs. They were never changed.

Context is my friend. You're the one that said context didn't mean anything. Remember? Now it bites you.

Yes, yes, I know. You're good with the 'buzz words'. 'Cherry pick' and 'dodge'. Seems that reflects more on you than those you speak to. mho.

Stranger

WRONG.

The teaching on the Sheep and the Goats in Matt. 25 is about INDIVIDUALS being judged. It talks about them being separated form one another. You can deny this all you want but I already proved it by showing you the Koine Greek word used here αυτοσ (ow-tos'), which means INDIVIDUALS.
You cannot argue with what Scripture explicitly states.

As for James 2:21-23, he is not talking about faith apart from works. He states clearly that there is NO such thing. He is talking about how they go hand in hand - that are are part of the SAME thing - faith.
This is precisely why Luther and Calvin wanted to get rid of the Book of James. Luther called it "the Epistle of straw."

As for Pet. 2:22 - these false teachers WERE faithful Christians who fell away. You really need to do a study on the word, "Epignosis" instead of repeatedly denying the truth. Epignosis connotes a FULL experiential belief - not a false belief.

Finally - I never said that context doesn't mean anything. that is a lie of your own concoction.
I said that whether Peter was talking about false teachers or false believers is irrelevant in context to WHAT he is talking about - which is a LOSS of salvation.

you need to pay attention instead of hurling false charges and perverting Scripture . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife

To continue from your list in post #97.

(Matt. 5:13) This speaks to the effectiveness of the believer on the earth. If he loses that effectiveness, due to sin or worldly living, then he is of no benefit to God in using him. He is cast out, not into hell, but to be trodden under foot of men. No loss of salvation here.

(1Cor. 9:27) Castaway means disapproved. Paul is not talking about obtaining salvation. He is talking about running the race to obtain crowns and rewards. (1Cor.9:24-25) " Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." Loss of reward, not salvation.

(2Peter 3:17) The error of the wicked is the teaching that Christ will not come again. See (2Peter 3:3-4) " Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?" See (2Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;..." See now (2Peter 3:17) "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from you own stedfastness." The warning is not sending them to hell. It is falling from their steadfastness in the knowledge of Christs Second Coming. No loss of salvation.

(1John 2:24) This is a warning for the purpose of being able to continue in the fellowship of the Father and Son. See (1John 1:3) "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." Concerning the Holy Spirit, they already have the Holy Spirit. See (1John 2:27) "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you...." Then we learn to abide in Him. (1John 2:28) " And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." So, if you don't abide in the Spirit, which taught you the truth of the Father and the Son, you will not continue in the fellowship of the Father and the Son. And, if Christ's return finds you in this condition, you will lack confidence and be ashamed. No loss of salvation.

Stranger

Even to a blind person - this entire post is a crock.

First of all - regarding (Matt. 5:13 - HOW is a person who is useless to God going to be saved??
This is a contradictory statement. This verse is about the LOSS of salvation.

As for 1 Cor. 9:27 - you're wrong again.
the Greek word Paul uses here for "disqualified" is αδοκιμοσ (ad-ok'-ee-mos) - which means "Disapproved" or "Unfit". Paul is warning against the arrogance of the false Protestant doctrine of OSAS.

As to Peter's discourse in 2 Pet. 3 - you kep dancing around the word "Epignosis".
No matter how much you dance - you'll still be wrong because of your refusal to accept the linguistic implications of this word.

Finally - your inability to accept the warning in 1 John 2:24 is based on your refusal to see the word that begins the sentence:

1 John 2:24
IF what you heard from the beginning remains in you, THEN you will remain in the Son and in the Father.

This statement is conditional on whether or not what the believer heard REMAINS in him.

These blind denials of yours are ALL based in a woefully-dangerous practice of cherry-picking Scripture to your own destruction . . .