Rome's 7 0F 10 Hills

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Tsigano

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The final beast you so like to mention was still iron like the fourth beast only this time it was mixed with clay. The previous three were completely different metals. The beast with ten horns is very much alive at the time of Christ and the Jews leaving Israel as seen in Revelations 12. Read on and we see that It is still there in the later days. Rome as a city has never been destroyed. It stands as one of the splendid cities in the world with all its history and famous architecture. It also has the Vatican City within it borders which again is a very rich and powerful symbol to many across the globe when considering the Christian kingdom. Something as powerful an identity within the Christian world of God is hardly something we should dismiss as a Christian. The Bible was written for us and massively about us. The Empire we knew as the Roman Empire fell to ruin but even within its ashes a united western Europe remained which for many years was still united under Rome. This united western allies have their high points and have had their low points but together they still remain the most influential political and economical power.
Like I said. Do we consider Islam as one beast with just two divisions or do we consider it into different Empires such as Ottomans, Saudis, Berbers etc depending on time period of rule?

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches"
 

popeye

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TSI-

You make a good argument for the Roman Empire as the beast. I agree with what you stated, with exception of any reference to Islam.


Chaotic-Prophet - What's your beef with me?
 

BibleScribe

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Popeye,

You're too smart not to realize that Europe is not "ten", it's not "all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave". Equally, it's not the EU which regulates hazardous shipments within the continental United States, and it's not the EU which today would demand consent before Lee Iacocca could rennovate the Statue of Liberty.

Have you considered that "Rome" is dead, but the Roman Republic model was never replaced? As such the "divided" empire of Clay still retains some of the Iron from that Roman Republic model?


... and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under GOD, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


Thus the one you fail to see is right before your eyes.

BibleScribe
 

Tsigano

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Popeye,

You're too smart not to realize that Europe is not "ten", it's not "all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave". Equally, it's not the EU which regulates hazardous shipments within the continental United States, and it's not the EU which today would demand consent before Lee Iacocca could rennovate the Statue of Liberty.

Have you considered that "Rome" is dead, but the Roman Republic model was never replaced? As such the "divided" empire of Clay still retains some of the Iron from that Roman Republic model?


... and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under GOD, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


Thus the one you fail to see is right before your eyes.

BibleScribe

The Ten kings in Daniel says that three were replaced by one. That leaves seven prior to this then three being replaced by one. The ten in Revelations may be different.


Its not the EU though the EU is within it. It is the countries of western and southern Europe and their colonies. That and any other countries that fall within their treaties and organisations that make them a single body. The countries of North Africa and Asia that were a part of beast are now controlled by the second beast - the beast of the land - Islam. The second beast get all its authority from the first beast.

Rome was not an all out evil identity the same way the western allies aren't. It however the most powerful identity on the planet that controls most the wealth and governs most the world's politics. It controls the Middle East, who's only thing that gives it money and wealth and respect from the beast is oil. The Western Allies together carried out the crusades, they decided that the Jews can have Israel back, They give out the aid, They supply many weapons to other countries. They dictate to Iraq their leaders and politics etc etc
 

popeye

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BibleScribe & TSI -

I have reviewed these prophecies a hundred thousand times, and still come to the same conclusion: The end time beast power is an updated version of the Roman Empire of old....with western democracies and republics - including the USA - as part of that ET beast. or that is, the 10-toed clay and iron.

I am also influenced by the fact that the western democracies are not only extensions of the Western European ( and old Roman Empire land mass ) countries who colonized these lands ( and eventually the people and countries ) of the Western Hemisphere ( S. America - Spain; North America - France, England, Germany, etc.; Australia - England; South Africa, New Zealand - England; Sub-Saharan Africa - European missionaries of Christianity ), but more importantly, they are ALL CHRISTIAN.

I feel that these 3 primary considerations, that is:

1. the prophetic reference
2. Colonies as extensions of Europe
3. all Christian countries and people

form a marriage to help us understand who the ET beast power is. In my mind, somehow these "clues" are all related, and need be all considered. It is also my belief that the prophecies are predominately related with Christiandom, which when considered, compass 2/3 rds of the countries and peoples of the INHABITED world. The rest ( 1/3 rd ) are related to the 4 kings of the East and the far east. Considering this then, it is also no coincidence that Christianity - or countries that are dominated by this religion - doubles in numbers of adherents the next closest religion ( Islam ).

Therefore, I have always felt that the long-established dogma interpreting the beast as being associated with Rome and/or the Roman Empire, the Western European nations, their extensions into the western hemisphere and continents such as Australia and Africa, coupled with Catholicism centered in Rome, is neither antiquated or outdated, and indeed, was "spot-on" from the beginning.

Furthermore, when Rev chapters, 12, 17 & 18 are reviewed with this precept in mind, the clarity and cohesiveness of all these prophecies considered together, lends itself, IN PERFECT HARMONY to this interpretation.

The European Union may not now be 10 nations, but who's to say in the future they couldn't end up that way. Or, more precisely, maybe the 10 toes are associated more with 10 future blocks of democratic nations of Christiandom, including the EU, that could emerge?

We may never really know until that happens....
 

BibleScribe

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BibleScribe & TSI -

I have reviewed these prophecies a hundred thousand times, and still come to the same conclusion: The end time beast power is an updated version of the Roman Empire of old....with western democracies and republics - including the USA - as part of that ET beast. or that is, the 10-toed clay and iron.

...

Hi Popeye,

I wish you'd tell modern history of your opinion, because it appears they're pursuing a different future:


1. Gold, Babylonian -- has fallen

2. Silver, Medo/Persian -- has fallen

3. Bronze, Grecian-- has fallen

4. Iron, Roman-- has fallen

-- Clay, "divided" (retains the Roman representative Republic "iron")

-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.-- has fallen from pre-eminence

-- 6. Bear, Russia -- "is", when it attacks Israel, as noted by the entire world

-- 7. Leopard, China -- "is yet to come"

-- 8. "dreadful", United Nations -- "was and is not", because it has NO geography, NO populous, NO army, etc.
-- -- CURRENT Permanent Membership on Security Council
-- -- Horn #1. U.S.
-- -- Horn #2. U.K.
-- -- Horn #3. France
-- -- Horn #4. Russia
-- -- Horn #5. China

-- -- NOMINATED Permanent Membership on Security Council (as of Aug. 1993*)
-- -- Horn #6. Germany (economic power)
-- -- Horn #7. Japan (economic power)
-- -- Horn #8. Brazil (regional representative for S. America)
-- -- Horn #9. Nigeria (regional representative for Africa)
-- -- Horn #10. India (regional representative for Near East)

* “The Road To Reform: Towards A New Clarity,” U.N. Chronicle, UMI, Vol. 30, Issue 4, December 1993, pp. 45-46


... but what is history except something that defies christian (small "c") dogma? :rolleyes:



BibleScribe
 

Tsigano

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Hi Popeye,

I wish you'd tell modern history of your opinion, because it appears they're pursuing a different future:


1. Gold, Babylonian -- has fallen

2. Silver, Medo/Persian -- has fallen

3. Bronze, Grecian-- has fallen

4. Iron, Roman-- has fallen

-- Clay, "divided" (retains the Roman representative Republic "iron")

-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.-- has fallen from pre-eminence

-- 6. Bear, Russia -- "is", when it attacks Israel, as noted by the entire world

-- 7. Leopard, China -- "is yet to come"

-- 8. "dreadful", United Nations -- "was and is not", because it has NO geography, NO populous, NO army, etc.
-- -- CURRENT Permanent Membership on Security Council
-- -- Horn #1. U.S.
-- -- Horn #2. U.K.
-- -- Horn #3. France
-- -- Horn #4. Russia
-- -- Horn #5. China

-- -- NOMINATED Permanent Membership on Security Council (as of Aug. 1993*)
-- -- Horn #6. Germany (economic power)
-- -- Horn #7. Japan (economic power)
-- -- Horn #8. Brazil (regional representative for S. America)
-- -- Horn #9. Nigeria (regional representative for Africa)
-- -- Horn #10. India (regional representative for Near East)

* “The Road To Reform: Towards A New Clarity,” U.N. Chronicle, UMI, Vol. 30, Issue 4, December 1993, pp. 45-46


... but what is history except something that defies christian (small "c") dogma? :rolleyes:



BibleScribe

I think you stand alone in this belief. This to me looks like an very in depth personal study based on a lot of assumption. Surely if this was correct then the church as whole would know about it.

Daniel 12 makes it very clear that the identity with ten horns was there at the time of Christ and it was there at the time the Jews were sent out of Israel (after Christ earthly birth / death). Read further into Revelations and we see this beast is there to the end.
In Daniel it makes very clear that the beast of iron becomes a beast of iron mixed with clay. It is still iron used. Iron represents the Roman Empire.

The Church as a majority since its earliest time has felt and believed that the beast is of Rome. The same is still the case now.

The message often coming through to teachers and pastors now is the message of the rise of Islam. This to many is the second beast with two horns (looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon - looks like Christianity but teaches hatred and war, has two horns - divisions being Shiite & Sunni, from the land - from the land of Abraham)

As we approach further into the end times we will see a lot decided from these two beast. Both the "real" Christian church (of Jesus and not any later impostors) and the Jews will become their enemy.


"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches"
 

veteran

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I truly wish it WAS... just about Rome like some wrongly think today. For Protestants like myself, we'd have already won, since I have never... been influenced in ANY way of converting to Catholicism (and I know a lot of them), nor taking any 'mark' they might be giving their own folks. Wait a minute, I haven't seen any of them propose a mark of the beast upon their flesh body either!

But I have seen media folks like Andy Rooney of 60 Minutes suggest we all get a bodily I.D. chip to fight against terrorism. And I've even seen news clips of a non-Christian family that got chipped to set the wonderful example for us.

Since the ten horn, ten crown, seven head beast of Rev.13 is associated with the time of the second beast that causes the mark of the beast, I wonder what that mark was back at the time of Christ???
 

BibleScribe

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I think you stand alone in this belief. ...



I don't believe I ever asked: Who has this same interpretation? I only shared the TRUTH of Prophecy and History, and either they agree or they don't agree.

As for the ~church~ view, -- there are so many distortions, prevarications, and outright lies in their doctrines, who can believe what they say? Is there a single commentary which addresses the Daniel 2:45 sequence of: 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE? Can your scholars explain how the Medo/Persian empire fulfilled the three ribs and the "arise and devour much flesh"? And did the angel really intend that these prophecies are "shut up and sealed until the time of the end", (i.e., approximate to 1948), or are these prophetic concepts merely ~suggestions~?

Stay with the ill advised. And good luck. :D



BibleScribe
 

popeye

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It is clear we all have our own interpretations. Nothing wrong with that. We will likely all be surprised - in one way or another - when these events take place opposite to what we had envisioned. But, we will be prepared one way or another, because we are promised a blessing by trying to decipher these things. However, I will say that when the prophecies say that "we will receive a mark in our right hand, or in our forehead", you can surely bet that that is where that mark will be.
 

BibleScribe

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It is clear we all have our own interpretations. Nothing wrong with that. ...


LOL, Popeye,

Yeah, there is something wrong with different interpretations from different individuals:

2 Peter 1:20
[sup]20[/sup]knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. [sup]21[/sup]For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

As such, one is correct, and all others are wrong. Thus the only question is which one is correct? And where many are espoused, it may be that NONE are correct if the words are still "shut up and sealed" because it's not yet the time of the end. However, I would propose that as of ~1948 we are in the time of the end, and the prophecies are available for interpretation.

Accordingly, the ~ancient fulfillments~ are failed because these were the ~best interpretations~ the scholars could come up with. And in this, some scholars where honest and didn't provide an answer (i.e., Young, Keil, Kliefoth, Scalinger, Newton, Montgomery, and others), but some weren't as honest and presented false scripture (i.e., summing the seven and the sixty-two as though they were one number), and even a false historical record, in the attempt to provide a ~best~ lie.


So now, each of us must determine whether we have the TRUTH as revealed by Scripture and the Historical Record, or whether we are presenting our best lie.



BibleScribe
 

Tsigano

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I think David Wilkerson has covered the beast with seven hills and ten heads very well. Not just a religious power but a political one.

It is people like David Wilkerson that I come under and not people's personal debate. I feel very strongly that the Bible makes it very clear the beast started with Rome. Revelation 12 makes it very clear the ten headed beast was around at the time of Christ Jesus's coming as a man and then we see the same beast was there when the Jews were chased out of Israel shortly after. Daniel makes it clear the beast came after Greece as the beast made of iron. We then see this iron mixed with clay and the beast becomes a divided beast. The European powers and it's colonies that grew out the ashes of the former Roman Empire I can see with my own eyes on a day to day basis has remained as a super power divided between separate nations. Nothing is coincidence.
God has it all in control.

 

PropphecyStudent

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“[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, his is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]​



[1] Eiselen,Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929, p. 1392​

A "literary convention" would imply a distortion of the historical (and Scriptural) truth, -- a small detail for someone whose ministry lies outside of Bible Prophecy topics

.
 

Tsigano

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Just to add that for me it is more than obvious that the beast with ten horns and seven hills started with the Roman Empire and remains to this day as a divided Nations. The Bible makes it clear through Daniel who was prophesying the ruling empires on the Holy land from his time up until the time of Jesus. Daniel then makes clear this last beast stays on until the end times. Daniel even made it clear the beast will become a divided nation. We can see this has happened with our own eyes. Hardly coincidence.

The other beast mentioned in Revelations (but not during the prophecies of Daniel) which is the beast with two horns and look like a lamb but speaks like a dragon I believe is Islam as it comes up from out the land (the land as promised to Abraham) and not the sea (the multitudes of the Earth). After Judo-Christianity, Islam is the next religion of any real global status and it sits from the lands promised to Abraham.

It looks like a lamb - a religion that appears as though it preaches peace (As-Salāmu `Alaykum. Muhammed & Saladin are displayed very kind and gentle Holy men and not the war mongers they really were) but speaks like a dragon - in reality preaches words of hate (anti-Jewish, , those that eat pork are ungodly etc. Islam spread by the sword. Quran tells reader to make war with infidels and to 'behead' them - the many verses such as "strike the neck of the infidel")

It has two horns = two divisions = Shiite & Sunni.

In Genesis God prophesied to Abraham about his son Ishmael. I believe this was all prophecy concerning Islam. Galatians 4 also refers to two covenants in Jerusalem. Today we have Jerusalem split between Judo-Christianity & Islam.

Islam is the second largest religion after Judo-Christianity. It also descends from Abraham and the land promised from God.
Like Satan tempted Adam through Eve using temptation and doubt of God's promise, Satan did the same to Abraham through Sarah. That was the root of Ishmael. It was not God's doing.

When the pope calls multi-faith prayer meetings, Islam join the meeting.

Islam according to their belief are waiting for an end-time prophet who is called "Mahdi" and will be a descendant of Muhammed. This end of time prophet will unite with an end of time Jesus and between them they will bring peace on the Earth - Sound familiar to Revelations?
Half of Christians will be within this unity and the other half will become the enemy - Obviously being the last of the true believers.
 

veteran

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Rome can be deceived into false worship all they want to and still NOT... be the great city nor ten horned system Christ mentioned in His Revelation.

The "great city" of Rev.17-18, the Babylon Harlot, is... Jerusalem!


Rev 17:6
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
(KJV)

Rev 17:15-18
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)

Rev 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(KJV)

That's Jerusalem where Christ Jesus was crucified.

Per the Old Testament prophets, God referred to Jerusalem as a harlot when she and the people of Israel fell away from Him to worship idols instead!

Yet some folks... cannot get away from their people's traditional hatred of the Roman Church and all the false lies told about it by those who hate Christ Jesus and Rome's role in The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes, that's right, hatred of Rome is also a doctrine of Orthodox Jews that hate Christ Jesus.
 

Tsigano

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Rome can be deceived into false worship all they want to and still NOT... be the great city nor ten horned system Christ mentioned in His Revelation.

The "great city" of Rev.17-18, the Babylon Harlot, is... Jerusalem!


Rev 17:6
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
(KJV)

Rev 17:15-18
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)

Rev 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(KJV)

That's Jerusalem where Christ Jesus was crucified.

Per the Old Testament prophets, God referred to Jerusalem as a harlot when she and the people of Israel fell away from Him to worship idols instead!

Yet some folks... cannot get away from their people's traditional hatred of the Roman Church and all the false lies told about it by those who hate Christ Jesus and Rome's role in The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes, that's right, hatred of Rome is also a doctrine of Orthodox Jews that hate Christ Jesus.

it is saying that in "Sodom & Egypt" our Lord was "also" crucified. This isn't saying the exact place where Jesus was physically crucified. We all crucify our Lord every time we sin.

Jerusalem doesn't rule over the kings of the Earth. Jerusalem sits persecuted by the kings of the Earth. One half of the city is given back to the Jews. The other half sits with the Dome of Islam - the people of the law (Galatians 4).

I think a time will come when this is more clearer. Until then I listen to what the Spirit says to the Church and those we can see are true by their works. How anyone can find fault of people like David Wilkerson, Evan Roberts, Demos Shakarian etc is beyond me. People that have brought hundreds of thousands to the Lord and changed many a persons life through preaching 100% from the Word. David Wilkerson was a village preacher who felt lead by God to leave his little safe haven and to go to one of the most dangerous places on the planet at that time. At a time his wife was pregnant with their baby. No man out for his own reasons would do this. What we saw as a result was a major impact on the streets of New York. God chose this man for a reason.

Jerusalem wasn't so much the harlot in the old testament. Jerusalem itself is just a city made of bricks and mortar. It was a reference to God's people who pollute themselves with the things of the other Earth which are contrary to the Spirit. They would say they were married to God yet would carry out their ways with the lusts of the flesh & idolatry. I'm sure the harlot in Revelation is a similar people of God's people hence the line saying "come out from her, my people".

Since the beginning of the church Spirit lead Christians have felt that Rome is significant in the last days. Rev 12 in itself shows that the Roman Empire was the beast as does the prophesies of Daniel which show the beast from his time until the first coming of Lord Jesus. The last beast of iron get mixed with clay (becomes a divided nation) and remains until the end.
 

veteran

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it is saying that in "Sodom & Egypt" our Lord was "also" crucified. This isn't saying the exact place where Jesus was physically crucified. We all crucify our Lord every time we sin.

Jerusalem doesn't rule over the kings of the Earth. Jerusalem sits persecuted by the kings of the Earth. One half of the city is given back to the Jews. The other half sits with the Dome of Islam - the people of the law (Galatians 4).

I think a time will come when this is more clearer. Until then I listen to what the Spirit says to the Church and those we can see are true by their works. How anyone can find fault of people like David Wilkerson, Evan Roberts, Demos Shakarian etc is beyond me. People that have brought hundreds of thousands to the Lord and changed many a persons life through preaching 100% from the Word. David Wilkerson was a village preacher who felt lead by God to leave his little safe haven and to go to one of the most dangerous places on the planet at that time. At a time his wife was pregnant with their baby. No man out for his own reasons would do this. What we saw as a result was a major impact on the streets of New York. God chose this man for a reason.

Jerusalem wasn't so much the harlot in the old testament. Jerusalem itself is just a city made of bricks and mortar. It was a reference to God's people who pollute themselves with the things of the other Earth which are contrary to the Spirit. They would say they were married to God yet would carry out their ways with the lusts of the flesh & idolatry. I'm sure the harlot in Revelation is a similar people of God's people hence the line saying "come out from her, my people".

Since the beginning of the church Spirit lead Christians have felt that Rome is significant in the last days. Rev 12 in itself shows that the Roman Empire was the beast as does the prophesies of Daniel which show the beast from his time until the first coming of Lord Jesus. The last beast of iron get mixed with clay (becomes a divided nation) and remains until the end.


Just goes to show us that God's Holy Writ as written isn't popular, not even with the Jews whom He sent His Word to. That's why some have to dream up many excuses to not heed It as written.


Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(KJV)


Our Heavenly Father speaking to Judah and Jerusalem... applying the titles of Sodom and Gommorah to Jerusalem because of their falling away from Him to do idol worship:

Isa 1:1-2
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against Me.
(KJV)
....
....

Isa 1:10
10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
(KJV)
 

Tsigano

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you may be right about the city (Babylon) being Jerusalem but I am still very certain in my mind that the beast with ten horns & seven hills started from the Roman Empire and remains as the divided Empire that has risen from its former provinces in Europe and their colonised lands.

I also believe the second beast with 2 horns is Islam as prophesied to Abraham through Ishmael.

I just read back what I wrote and I think I said it wrong. What I mean is that we all crucified our Lord. Everyone everywhere. It was not just the Jews in Jerusalem or the Roman soldiers who nailed Him to the cross. It was the whole of mankind. Not that this is really relevant to the beast with ten horns. Reading the verse through, then I feel you could be right about the city being Jerusalem.

I believe the anti-Christ will come as someone through the beast with ten horns and not the whore, The whore will aline itself with the man from the beast. The one posing to be Christ and will try and place himself at the head of God's Church but will deny the true actions of Christ Jesus and the power of the cross. I believe that the signs all say that all other world religions will come under this imposter.

All major religions are predicting this man. It can't be coincidence. They all think he will bring peace. The Bible is the only book that says that this man will be an imposter and as a result we will be hated for our believes. Jesus told us that when He returns, its will be in the sky and not as a man. The Bible warns of a false Christ and a false prophet.

Islam waits for an end time Jesus who will unite with an end time prophet of Islam called mahdi. Between them they unite half of Christian with Islam and will bring about peace for the last seven years.
|n the book of Daniel it speak of seven years of the Jews which have not yet been fulfilled yet the others have been. This is because we are in a time of the gentiles. In the Bible this last seven years it says there will be a peace for 3 1/2 years when the temple will be allowed to be rebuilt. Then the last 3 1/2 years will be war.

The Buddhist wait for an end time man who will bring peace. Even i our life time we can see all religion major religions coming together in prayer and uniting. We can see the divided beast as prophesied by Daniel. God-chosen & proven Christian evangelists such as David Wilkerson are confirming this through visions.

The Jews have Israel back and are building up to a point where they can build the third temple. Even the Jews think that the building of the third temple will bring about peace for all humanity. All the signs are saying the same things. We as Christian are the only ones who see it from the other side as Jesus has forewarned us this will happen.

It is not being built yet but listen to the belief of the Jews
 

veteran

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you may be right about the city (Babylon) being Jerusalem but I am still very certain in my mind that the beast with ten horns & seven hills started from the Roman Empire and remains as the divided Empire that has risen from its former provinces in Europe and their colonised lands.

If that were true, then the whole world would not be included in the coming tribulation that Jesus mentioned, and it would also make God a liar because He specifically proclaimed His intent to 'gather the nations', to 'assemble the kingdoms' in the end to pour out His indignation upon them (Zeph.3). It would also detract from the fact that Bible prophecy of Christ's second coming for the battle of Armageddon against His enemies is to occur near Jerusalem, and not Rome. Thus the false ones use Rome as a decoy for Jerusalem.


I also believe the second beast with 2 horns is Islam as prophesied to Abraham through Ishmael.

Then you're not listening to Christ per His Revelation, because the "another beast", a 2nd beast of Revelation 13, a religious beast, is about a specific person, an entity who is to deceive the whole world by the working of great signs and miracles done on earth in the sight of men. It's about a religious false messiah setting himself up as God, requiring ALL on the earth to bow in worship. Could that false one come from Islam? Possibly, yes, since Antiochus Epiphanes of history served as a Biblical pattern for the final Antichrist still yet to come. And Antiochus was from Syria.


I just read back what I wrote and I think I said it wrong. What I mean is that we all crucified our Lord. Everyone everywhere. It was not just the Jews in Jerusalem or the Roman soldiers who nailed Him to the cross. It was the whole of mankind. Not that this is really relevant to the beast with ten horns. Reading the verse through, then I feel you could be right about the city being Jerusalem.

That's a false doctrine. Those who believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ certainly were NOT... responsible for His crucifixion! Nor was anyone else of Israel that weren't even there, but were already scattered among the Gentiles at His first coming. Nor is any believer today on The Saviour Jesus Christ guilty of His crucifixion. Those responsible were the religious leadership of the day, the scribes and Pharisees who rejected Him, the ones Jesus and John the Baptist called a "generation of vipers" (Matt.3; Matt.23). And most likely, it's that "generation of vipers" that have come up with that false idea that all peoples are guilty of crucifying Christ Jesus. The shedding of innocent blood is specifically upon the hands of that "generation of vipers" like Jesus showed in the Matthew 23 chapter.


I believe the anti-Christ will come as someone through the beast with ten horns and not the whore, The whore will aline itself with the man from the beast. The one posing to be Christ and will try and place himself at the head of God's Church but will deny the true actions of Christ Jesus and the power of the cross. I believe that the signs all say that all other world religions will come under this imposter.

The 1st beast of Rev.13:1-2 is a kingdom beast. It ain't Rome because the Rev.12:3-4 beast kingdom also had ten horns, yet it existed of old, when Satan drew a third of the angels (stars) into rebellion with him. Rome did not yet exist in the time of that Rev.12:3-4 ten horned beast. Per Rev.17, the ten horns specifically apply to ten specific kings, and they don't even come to power until... the beast king (i.e., 2nd beast of Rev.13) arrives on the scene to take power over all the earth.

You may be very correct about all the world's religions coming under the power of the 2nd beast king - false messiah. That globalist joining of all religions under one banner has been going on for quite some time now, and includes leaders among Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

All major religions are predicting this man. It can't be coincidence. They all think he will bring peace. The Bible is the only book that says that this man will be an imposter and as a result we will be hated for our believes. Jesus told us that when He returns, its will be in the sky and not as a man. The Bible warns of a false Christ and a false prophet.

Christianity only is looking for the SECOND coming of Christ Jesus as The Messiah. No other faith is. Judaism and Islam are not, for they are looking for Messiah's FIRST appearance. They don't believe Christ already came a first time yet. A pseudo-Christ is to come first in the last days, which is what you're speaking of, and then Christ Jesus' Second Coming will occur afterwards to destroy that fake one, in that order. So who do you think the deceived of orthodox Judaism and Islam will accept? Simple; they will accept the pseudo-Christ as their Messiah, in ignorance and in deception. The truly sad part is, that many deceived Christian and Messianic brethren who believe on Jesus will fall away to accept that pseudo-Christ, instead of waiting on The True Christ Jesus Who comes later. Like The LORD said, "Therefore wait ye upon Me..." - Zeph.3:8. (Isaiah 8:17; Isaiah 30:18; Isaiah 40:31; Isaiah 49:23; Lam.3:26; Luke 12:36; 1 Thess.1:10; etc.).



Islam waits for an end time Jesus who will unite with an end time prophet of Islam called mahdi. Between them they unite half of Christian with Islam and will bring about peace for the last seven years.

I've heard of that, but not been able to confirm it as one of Islam's beliefs.


|n the book of Daniel it speak of seven years of the Jews which have not yet been fulfilled yet the others have been. This is because we are in a time of the gentiles. In the Bible this last seven years it says there will be a peace for 3 1/2 years when the temple will be allowed to be rebuilt. Then the last 3 1/2 years will be war.

Originally two periods of 1260 days, with Christ's coming at the end of the second 1260 day period. Yet, per Matt.24, Christ said He 'shortened' the time for the sake of His elect. Thus there's a new time to be reckoned for that, given in Revelation. Christ's coming is what ends that whole period.


The Buddhist wait for an end time man who will bring peace. Even i our life time we can see all religion major religions coming together in prayer and uniting. We can see the divided beast as prophesied by Daniel. God-chosen & proven Christian evangelists such as David Wilkerson are confirming this through visions.

It's called Ecunemicalism between different faiths. The end time events have already been written for us in God's Word. It's up to each believer to do their own Bible study in it, asking The LORD to open it up to us.


The Jews have Israel back and are building up to a point where they can build the third temple. Even the Jews think that the building of the third temple will bring about peace for all humanity. All the signs are saying the same things. We as Christian are the only ones who see it from the other side as Jesus has forewarned us this will happen.

Actually, they don't... have all of Israel back; they've even be led to give up portions of it to bring peace with Islam. Apostle Paul forewarned that when the deceived begin to say, "Peace and safety", then shall "sudden destruction" come upon them. That sudden destruction is about the events of the "day of the Lord" with Christ's second coming. That "Peace and safety" reveals there is... going to be a false world peace to occur just prior to the end of this world, just before Christ's coming. World peace is specifically what the League of Nations claimed it's establishing was for, to end all wars and bring world peace. It's what the Globalists among all... nations are working towards, whether they are aware of God's Hand in it or not (recall Zeph.3:8 again).
 

Tsigano

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Mar 2, 2011
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If that were true, then the whole world would not be included in the coming tribulation that Jesus mentioned, and it would also make God a liar because He specifically proclaimed His intent to 'gather the nations', to 'assemble the kingdoms' in the end to pour out His indignation upon them (Zeph.3). It would also detract from the fact that Bible prophecy of Christ's second coming for the battle of Armageddon against His enemies is to occur near Jerusalem, and not Rome. Thus the false ones use Rome as a decoy for Jerusalem.

who said anything about Rome as in the city? I was talking about the beast.

Beasts in the Bible as seen in the old Testament such as clearly seen Daniel are collections of people and not reference to one person.

If the beast has horns then this can be represent a person. That or divisions.

The Roman Empire was not a city. It was an Empire. Daniel prophesied the beasts (Empires) that will rule the Holy land (Israel) until the most important time on Earth - the coming of Jesus. Rome which is the last beast and we see this empire becomes divided but remains until the end. From out of this Empire comes a little horn - that is the Anti-Christ. The beast is not the Anti-Christ.

In these last days we see two major religious influences on the world. Judeo-Christianity and Islam.
The Holy City (Jerusalem) and also the Holy land (Israel) is split between the two.

Islam awaits an end time Islamic prophet who will be in the line of Muhammed (descended from Abraham via Ishmael) and also an end time Jesus. Between them they will bring peace on the Earth.
Buddhism also waits for an end time religious leader who will again bring about peace for all mankind.
The Jews wait for the building of the third temple which they also think will bring peace to all mankind.

These are the last days forewarned of in the Bible. A time when the anti-Christ will come and deceive mankind appearing to bring about peace. The time when the Jews will be aloud to build the third temple.