Sabbath braker?

[Barrd]

What is sin?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Okay....Sin is transgression of the law. Thank you, John.

So, did Jesus transgress the law?
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

No. Jesus did not sin.

Therefore, He did not break the law. Who says He did calls God a liar, and the truth is not in him...

 

[ewq1938]

Therefore, He did not break the law. Who says He did calls God a liar, and the truth is not in him...

This isn't true. You fail to understand how a person can break the law but be blameless. Christ broke the law, that cannot be disputed. Why he did and why it was not a sin is what people need to seek to understand else they will be repeating the nonsense seen above.

 

[Raeneske]

This isn't true. You fail to understand how a person can break the law but be blameless. Christ broke the law, that cannot be disputed. Why he did and why it was not a sin is what people need to seek to understand else they will be repeating the nonsense seen above.

You're whole theology on this point is twisted. You are virtually saying law-breaking = blameless. That is, if you break the law, you are blameless. It's completely in contradiction of 1 John 3:4, and numerous verses about Christ being sinless. Either you're right, or they're right.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

 

[Barrd]

This isn't true. You fail to understand how a person can break the law but be blameless. Christ broke the law, that cannot be disputed. Why he did and why it was not a sin is what people need to seek to understand else they will be repeating the nonsense seen above.

I'm sorry...but John disputes it. The Bible disputes it.
Jesus did not break the law...had He done so, it would have been sin in Him.
If you believe that Jesus broke the law, then His Sacrifice on Calvary avails you nothing....

 

[ewq1938]

You're whole theology on this point is twisted. You are virtually saying law-breaking = blameless. That is, if you break the law, you are blameless.

That only proves you are not understanding the verses in question. It is possible to break a law without it being sinful but only under special morally important reasons. Christ gave two examples. Do you not understand what he said and why he said them?

Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Why don't you explain to everyone here how these priests could profane/break the Sabbath but be blameless? Also explain the same regarding what Christ said about David. Then after that, tie these two examples in with what Christ and the disciples were doing on the Sabbath.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus did not break the law...had He done so, it would have been sin in Him.

That's where you make your error. You don't understand that a law can be broken without sin. Jesus gave two examples of this. Do you not understand those examples?

 

[Barrd]

That's where you make your error. You don't understand that a law can be broken without sin. Jesus gave two examples of this. Do you not understand those examples?

Given a choice between trying to follow your logic, or simply taking John's word for it...hmmmm....

Sorry...I believe John. John says that sin is transgression of the law....and he is quite sure that Jesus never sinned.
Therefore, Jesus never broke the law.

It isn't rocket science....

 

[Barrd]

You do realize that Jesus is the God Who wrote the law in the first place, yes?
And He says that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
Therefore, He was not doing something that was "unlawful".

Now, how is that for logic? B)

 

[ewq1938]

Given a choice between trying to follow your logic, or simply taking John's word for it...hmmmm....

Sorry...I believe John. John says that sin is transgression of the law....and he is quite sure that Jesus never sinned.
Therefore, Jesus never broke the law.

It isn't rocket science....

It's easy, you just aren't understanding it. Transgressing the law is NORMALLY sinful But there are certain times when it is not sinful. Explain to us all how David broke the law yet he didn't sin? Explain how the Priests profaned the Sabbath but were blameless. Let's see how you exegete those examples since you seem to think you understand the scriptures so well. You say it's not rocket science, then prove it.

 

[ewq1938]

You do realize that Jesus is the God Who wrote the law in the first place, yes?
And He says that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
Therefore, He was not doing something that was "unlawful".

Now, how is that for logic? B)

The issue being discussed has nothing to do with doing good on the Sabbath. We are discussing breaking law without sin. Jesus gave two examples of law breaking where no sin occurred, one about the law, and one about the Sabbath law.

 

[Barrd]

The issue being discussed is whether or not Jesus transgressed the law.
John says no.
There is no "exegete" to it.

And again, Jesus is the God Who wrote the law in the first place. He probably has a better idea what it was about than anyone else. He seemed to think that it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath....which explains those two examples you are concerned about.

I would conclude that Jesus knew a lot more about the law than the Jews who accused Him.
They were also mad because He claimed to be the Son of God...which, by their law, would be blaspheme....and therefore, also a sin.
Except that Jesus was the One Man Who could make that claim, without sin.

 

[ewq1938]

There is no "exegete" to it.

That's what I thought you would say.

 

[Barrd]

Well, then, I'm happy to oblige you, Sir.
No hard feelings....

 

[DPMartin]

ewq

KJV Thou shall not kill" is the original English version of which is over 400 years of public scrutiny that most of the other versions you’ve posted are based on, the KJV. And the rest may not be proven like the KJV. And the Stone Edition of the Torah is a Jewish document translated to English by Jews, better said Hebrews, that is one of the most common on the book shelf, if not the most used and reliable version. The word "murder" was a part of the English language as far back as 1375, probably farther back. Why would a team of expert translators use the word "kill" in the KJV if "murder" is correct?

The Lord specifies later what shall be done if someone kills a man by accident. If the true translation was to be "murder" and understood as murder only, not including accidental death by the hand of a man, then the Lord God wouldn’t have need to address accidental death in the law, would He?
It seems to be an argument based on a few words of scripture. I’m done, thanks for the replies.

 

[ewq1938]

ewq

KJV Thou shall not kill" is the original English version of which is over 400 years of public scrutiny that most of the other versions you’ve posted are based on, the KJV.

Awesome, however it is still not an accurate translation. Killing isn't forbidden, it's murder. God ordered many morally proper killings and God did not violate his own commandment nor did anyone who carried out those orders.

And the Stone Edition of the Torah is a Jewish document translated to English by Jews, better said Hebrews, that is one of the most common on the book shelf, if not the most used and reliable version. The word "murder" was a part of the English language as far back as 1375, probably farther back. Why would a team of expert translators use the word "kill" in the KJV if "murder" is correct?

I don't know who is responsible for that translation but I have already proven MURDER is what the Hebrew verse is addressing.

The Lord specifies later what shall be done if someone kills a man by accident.

Nothing happens as far as punishment because there was no crime or violation of a commandment.

.

If the true translation was to be "murder" and understood as murder only, not including accidental death by the hand of a man, then the Lord God wouldn’t have need to address accidental death in the law, would He?

Of course he would. If you killed someone accidentally you had to move to a different city or place to get away from possible revenge killing by the family.

It seems to be an argument based on a few words of scripture. I’m done, thanks for the replies.

The problem is that you don't understand that the tense of a Hebrew verb can change what the verb means. Kill becomes murder in a certain verb tense. That's how the Hebrew language differentiates between killing and murder as they are different.

 

[DPMartin]

Anyways, Dgenises and Barrd thanks for the replies

Even though you are correct:
The main reasons why Jesus can not brake the law given by the hand of Moses is one, Jesus being the Word of God is what gave Moses the law. Also the reason no one but Jesus can fulfill the law given by the hand of Moses, the torah is a description of the Lord Jesus Himself, therefore like Him. And the resurrection of Jesus is the proof that He is who the Testimony says He is.


If I call you and give you an accurate description of myself so you can without a doubt recognize me, then I have to fulfill that description to a t, when I have made myself present with you. Therefore, it is impossible in the case of Jesus to brake the law. It is a wittiness of who He is. If Jesus broke the law then the witness would have proved He wasn’t the Christ. Which people like the Pharisees were trying to do. Hence the law is witness of someone with out sin.

If someone says that He broke the law then they have their own judgements of what the fulfillment of the law ought to be, like the Pharisees. It is the Lord who gave the law, that is correct about what fulfills the law.


The law was not only the Covenant, but also the Testimony:
Ex:25:16: And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
Hence testifying that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[heretoeternity]

It is good to brake for the Sabbath...it is the fourth commandment of God's Holy ten Commandments, aka God's law...so every week I "brake" for this special Holy seventh day of the week, and it is a joy to shut out the world for twnety four hours and concentrate on spiritual matters, and to obtain physical and pyschological rest, as God originally created the seventh day of the week for....So put on the "brakes" squeal your tires, and come to a complete stop on God's seventh day Holy day Sabbath...it is truly a blessing.....

 

[ewq1938]

So put on the "brakes" squeal your tires, and come to a complete stop on God's seventh day Holy day Sabbath...it is truly a blessing.....

Naw, work on Saturdays and "brake" on the other days Keep in mind for Christians, there isn't a way to break the Sabbath because the Sabbath is now fulfilled in Christ! I thank Christ I can make fire or gather sticks any day I want to.

 

[heretoeternity]

Naw, work on Saturdays and "brake" on the other days Keep in mind for Christians, there isn't a way to break the Sabbath because the Sabbath is now fulfilled in Christ! I thank Christ I can make fire or gather sticks any day I want to.

You are confused by the false doctrine you have endured....the Sabbath was created by God as the seventh day of the week in Genesis 2....even you and your false teachers cannot change that..but I guess you will try, and even try to get God to go back and do creation all over again to eliminate the seventh day of the week...even you, the pope and the harlot daughters cannot do that...oh well...wide is the way that leads to destruction..enjoy the trip while it lasts...and remember always Brake for the Holy Sabbath day, DON'T break the Sabbath commandment....

 

[ewq1938]

You are confused by the false doctrine you have endured....the Sabbath was created by God as the seventh day of the week in Genesis 2....even you and your false teachers cannot change that..but I guess you will try,

The Saturday Sabbath was part of a different religion. It is not a part of Christianity. Whoever has taught you what you believe in are false teachers.

and even try to get God to go back and do creation all over again to eliminate the seventh day of the week...even you, the pope and the harlot daughters cannot do that...oh well...wide is the way that leads to destruction..enjoy the trip while it lasts...and remember always Brake for the Holy Sabbath day, DON'T break the Sabbath commandment....

You are predictably judgmental, and of course extremely incorrect regarding what the Sabbath is for Christians. I'm sure God won't mind if you have one foot in Judaism and one in Christianity. Do you even try to keep the old Sabbath properly as the Jews did or have you made up your own easy Sabbath to keep?