Sabbath-Keeping

[zeke25]

God has ordained the 10 commandments through the Old Covenant along with the other 603 commandments to the nation people of Israel, no one else.

Jews who are fulfilled are no longer subject to that covenant, rather the New Covenant.

Are you a New Covenant believer or do you practice Judaism?

12 And the LORD said to Moses,
13 "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exodus 31:12-13

12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not walk in my statutes but rejected my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live; and my Sabbaths they greatly profaned. "Then I said I would pour out my wrath upon them in the wilderness, to make a full end of them.
14 But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, in whose sight I had brought them out.
15 Moreover, I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land that I had given them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands,
16 because they rejected my rules and did not walk in my statutes, and profaned my Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.
17 Nevertheless, my eye spared them, and I did not destroy them or make a full end of them in the wilderness.
Ezekiel 20:12-17


Notice what the Lord says of His Sabbaths...it is a sighn between Him and the people of Israel...not between Him and the Church.

Here is the command concerning the Sabbath...

You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 31:14

Truly this is not the command for New Covenant believers...this does not apply to the Church nor did it ever.

justaname,

Thanks for providing the Scriptures, that would have been my next step.

Zeke25

 

[justaname]

justaname,

Thanks for providing the Scriptures, that would have been my next step.

Zeke25

YHVH M'Kaddesh

 

[brakelite]

Just an observation for those 'New Covenant' Christians who continue to claim that the Sabbath was only for Israel. According to Hebrews 8:8-10 the new covenant was promised only to Israel and Judah.
You claim a promise given only to Israel...on what grounds?

Phoneman makes a legitimate observation when he said that there is a difference between the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses. The distinction between them was not invented by man, but made by God Himself. It was God who wrote the Ten Commandments on stone...it was Moses who wrote the rest of the laws on paper...under God's instruction. Both were stored seperately. The stone tables inside the ark...the writings of Moses beside the ark....which also was God's specific requirement. So the distinction was clear and is certainly not in our imagination.
There is another distinction also, which rightly understood will go a long way in proper discernment of the current topic at hand. Remember in Exodus how the Ten Commandments are introduced to Israel verbally from the top of the mountain. God Himself first spoke them in the hearing of the entire nation. There was absolutely no mistaking the importance of what was taking place...the thunder, the lightening,cloud and fire and earthquakes, the trumpet blasts...all contributing to an occasion that God did not want forgotten. Note how God began...I am the Lord thy God who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage....(Exodus 20:2) Israel's obedience was a prerequisite to their entering Canaan. And the whole nation made a promise before God...all that the Lord hath spoken we will do...(Exodus 19:8)
The law is not the covenant. The covenant was an agreement between God and the nation based on the promises made by the two parties. God promised to be faithful if Israel would obey the law, Israel promised to obey the law. Their respective promises made up the covenant, not the law.
Their was an unspoken or informal covenant between Adam and God. God I am sure promised Adam continuing life if he obeyed. The same went for Abraham. He was promised many children, if he met certain conditions. Israel was promised Canaan, if they met certain conditions. You see, the covenants or agreements made were all conditional on obedience. What they were obedient to was not the covenant. Israel broke the covenant through disobedience many times. An entire generation fell in the wilderness because the promises were faulty. Not God's, but Israels. They promised to obey everything, they failed. Thus their promises were faulty.

The new covenant is based on better promises. God still covenants to get us to a promised land, but the better promise is not tied to our own attempts to obey the law in our own strength as Israel did and failed,but it is tied to our faith in God and His writing the law on our hearts, transforming our minds, and thus He accomplishes our obedience for us. We are changed into the image of Jesus, loving as He loved, and therefore fulfilling the law. Therefore the just shall live by faith. Faith in God's sure promises, faith in His faithfulness to keep the new covenant, faith in the power of the Holy Spirit to make us obedient by a change of heart and mind.
But at no stage does the law disappear. Obedience is still essential. Just as it was for Adam, Abraham, Moses, Israel, and all the apostles and disciples throughout church history. Just as it is for you and me.

It was not the law that was faulty, it was not the law that is 'old, which decayeth and waxeth old and is ready to vanish away' (Hebrews 8:13). It was the covenant, the original agreement between God and Israel that is now old, and is now extinct. There is now a new agreement with the house of Israel This new agreement, or new covenant, still incorporates the law, but not on tables of stone, but fleshly tables of the heart.

The major difference between the old covenant and the new is not the disappearance or the presumed cancelled validity of the law, but rather it is the manner in which obedience is effected. God always has and always will require obedience. He is after all, God! But Israel failed. So God had to do something else. And He has. It is called the gospel. I, nor anyone else, can keep the law by following it to the letter. That is, by focusing upon the written law and attempting in my strength to obeying all the commandments. That is walking in the flesh. But if by the Spirit I do mortify the flesh and allow God to work in me His righteousness, and by His strength then I can find the power to obey all the commandments. It is by focusing upon Him,; worshiping Him in Spirit and truth, that He then abides in me and I begin to take on the nature and character of God, my Father. Obedience to the commandments then becomes the natural thing for me to do, and it becomes my delight and greatest pleasure. Jesus said that those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled. This righteousness expresses itself through obedience.
It is this that was hidden from Israel. They could not see the purpose in the sacrificial system; they could not see the end of all that they were attempting to accomplish by following the letter. They could not see Christ.
So God made a new covenant. He has written the law on our hearts and minds.
It is a covenant that infuses us with God's love. And as we express that love to Him and to our fellow man, we find that the commandments are kept, to the letter.
That includes the sabbath commandment, it includes the commandments regarding adultery, stealing, idolatry, and covetousness. None of the commandments will be broken if we are loving God with all our hearts, minds, souls and strength, and our neighbours as ourselves.
As Jesus said, "if you love Me, keep My commandments".

Funny thing about the sabbath. People pounce on the sabbath every time the law is mentioned. "I'm not under the law, therefore I don't need to observe the sabbath." Never seem to hear people say" I'm not under the law therefore I can steal your car."
And so often further reasoning by saying Jesus advocated working on the sabbath if it was helpful to man or beast, and therefore throwing out the baby with the bathwater by claiming that thus the whole sabbath issue is now null and void. Jesus corrected the observation of the sabbath. He didn't cancel it. The way He taught for the sabbath to be observed was the way it ought to have been done all along. And the way it ought to be done today.

 

[Phoneman777]

God has ordained the 10 commandments through the Old Covenant along with the other 603 commandments to the nation people of Israel, no one else.

Jews who are fulfilled are no longer subject to that covenant, rather the New Covenant.

Are you a New Covenant believer or do you practice Judaism?

12 And the LORD said to Moses,
13 "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exodus 31:12-13

12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not walk in my statutes but rejected my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live; and my Sabbaths they greatly profaned. "Then I said I would pour out my wrath upon them in the wilderness, to make a full end of them.
14 But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, in whose sight I had brought them out.
15 Moreover, I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land that I had given them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands,
16 because they rejected my rules and did not walk in my statutes, and profaned my Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.
17 Nevertheless, my eye spared them, and I did not destroy them or make a full end of them in the wilderness.
Ezekiel 20:12-17


Notice what the Lord says of His Sabbaths...it is a sighn between Him and the people of Israel...not between Him and the Church.

Here is the command concerning the Sabbath...

You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 31:14

Truly this is not the command for New Covenant believers...this does not apply to the Church nor did it ever.

Before you attempt to waiver and say " well this is about the festivals because it says Sabbaths (plural)" check the context. He is speaking of the weekly rest.

The Ten Commandments existed before Mount Sinai, and are not intrinsically tied to the Israelites as circumcision or Passover is tied. The Sabbath was not "made for Jews", but "was made for man (Gr. "mankind"). It is inconsistent to say that the Sabbath was kept in the OT by Abraham (Genesis 26:5 KJV), temporarily suspended in the NT especially since the Bible repeatedly speaks of Sabbath observance there and church historians confirm that the Sabbath was kept UNIVERSALLY until such time as it was replaced by the Catholic church with Sunday, then will be kept again for all eternity by the same NT Christians, along with "thou shalt have no other gods before Me; thou shalt not take the name of the Lord they God in vain...; etc.

Yes, the Israelites were commanded to keep the weekly Sabbath, but they were also commanded to not have other gods before God. New Covenant Christians who have God's law, once written on tables of stone but now written on their hearts (Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV; 2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV)

His Sabbath is a sign between Him and Spiritual Israel, the church, seeing that the "kingdom of God has been taken from (literal Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

 

[justaname]

The Church is not Israel or Judah, not even spiritually. The Hebrews passage does not say the New Covenant was "only for Israel". Eisegesis sees the word "only". Paul explains this as the mystery...

Bad theology leads to bad doctrine...

If you believe God is done with His people Israel you do not know God.

 

[zeke25]

Just an observation for those 'New Covenant' Christians who continue to claim that the Sabbath was only for Israel. According to Hebrews 8:8-10 the new covenant was promised only to Israel and Judah.
You claim a promise given only to Israel...on what grounds?

Brakelite,

There are specific Scriptures which have been shared with you here that show the Sabbath was only given to the Hebrews.

But, the promises in the Book of Hebrews were for all men, because Christ was the sacrifice for the sins of all men. And now His sabbath rest, rests on all men. Not a physical requirement, but a spiritual promise.

Zeke25

 

[UppsalaDragby]

I mean to say that the Bible distinguishes between what Moses wrote on paper and what God wrote with His finger in stone and that it specifically says that the one ended at the cross while the other will never end. That's why we'll be keeping the seventh day Sabbath in the new heaven and new earth, but will not be observing Passover, etc.

How does the Bible make that distinction?

 

[Phoneman777]

<<If the Ten Commandments are done away with,...>>

I don't think anyone is saying that.



<<The Bible itself directly distinguishes the Mosaic from the Ten Commandments in several places.>>

It does. However, the ten commandments along with the rest of the laws make up the "Law of Moses." When Jesus or the apostles referred to the "law" they were referring to all of the Torah, not just the Decalogue.
(see: Mat 12:5; Luke 2:23-24; 1Co 14:21, 34)

<<The Two Great Commandments are not a replacement, but a summation of the Ten.>>

Not just of the 10. According to Jesus, they are a summation of ALL the law and the Prophets.

Mat 22:37-40 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments.”

He also said: "...in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
(Mat 7:12)

Sin is breaking the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4 KJV),

That is false. 1 John 3:4 says: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

It does NOT say: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the ten commandments: for sin is the transgression of the ten commandments."

Don't rewrite scripture to suit your beliefs.

Rewrite your beliefs to suit scripture.

In response to your points:

1. To claim that the Ten Commandments exist but New Covenant Christians are exempt from them is the same as claiming they are done away with, unless one tries to make the ridiculous argument that only unsaved people are required to keep them (impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV), and once one is saved, he can safely disregard them.

2. The Ten Commandments existed before the Law of Moses and will continue to exist for all eternity, so tying them to the Law of Moses in order to exempt oneself from them is theological skulduggery. No amount of idolatrous rationalization will overcome the fact that "the works of His hands are verity and judgment. All of His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever" (Psalm 111:7-8 KJV). The Ten Commandments were written by the hand of God, not Moses.

3. Yes, the verse says "the law" and not "the Ten Commandments", but just what law can John be referring to if the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross? Don't answer "the law of love" because that is just a cop out for those who love sin and hate righteousness - if you love God you'll obey the first four and if you love your neighbor, the last six. A blind man can see that it is the Ten Commandments, seeing that James, Paul, John, and Jesus reference them throughout the NT. That's why Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV that "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but keeping the commandments of God" and James, making no mention of the Law of Moses, says if you kill or commit adultery, you become a transgressor and that we are to live according to the Law of Liberty. The same law that jails killers is a law of liberty to me if I walk according to that law. If you continue to fight against the Ten Commandments, you will hear Jesus say to you one day, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who work LAWLESSNESS."

 

[JimParker]

In response to your points:

1. To claim that the Ten Commandments exist but New Covenant Christians are exempt from them is the same as claiming they are done away with, unless one tries to make the ridiculous argument that only unsaved people are required to keep them (impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV), and once one is saved, he can safely disregard them.

2. The Ten Commandments existed before the Law of Moses and will continue to exist for all eternity, so tying them to the Law of Moses in order to exempt oneself from them is theological skulduggery. No amount of idolatrous rationalization will overcome the fact that "the works of His hands are verity and judgment. All of His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever" (Psalm 111:7-8 KJV). The Ten Commandments were written by the hand of God, not Moses.

3. Yes, the verse says "the law" and not "the Ten Commandments", but just what law can John be referring to if the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross? Don't answer "the law of love" because that is just a cop out for those who love sin and hate righteousness - if you love God you'll obey the first four and if you love your neighbor, the last six. It's this law: "The works of His hands are verity and judgement. All His commandments are sure; they stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness". What God wrote in stone are "works of His hands" which no man can brush aside. That's why Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV that "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but keeping the commandments of God" and James, making no mention of the Law of Moses, says if you kill or commit adultery, you become a transgressor and that we are to live according to the Law of Liberty. The same law that jails killers is a law of liberty to me if I walk according to that law. If you continue to fight against the Ten Commandments, you will hear Jesus say to you one day, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who work LAWLESSNESS."

<< To claim that the Ten Commandments exist but New Covenant Christians are exempt from them >>

Who is saying that???

<< unless one tries to make the ridiculous argument that only unsaved people are required to keep them (impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV), and once one is saved, he can safely disregard them. >>

Yes, that is a ridiculous argument.

<< The Ten Commandments existed before the Law of Moses >>

There is no evidence of that. It is pure speculation.

<< tying them to the Law of Moses in order to exempt oneself from them is theological skulduggery. >>

They are part of the Law of Moses. They are a part of the Old Covenant, the Vassal-Suzerain Treaty between Israel and God. Separating the 10 from the rest of the Law is a fabrication used by Ellen G. White (based on her abject ignorance) which she used to convince her suckers followers that they should go to church on Saturday rather than on Sunday, the day Christ rose.

Who is saying that they are exempt from the 10 commandments and can commit murder and adultery at will?

What are you talking about? :huh:

 

[zeke25]

on Sunday, the day Christ rose.

Jim Parker,

You are still promoting your flawed theory that Christ rose on Sunday. The Bible teaches that all days begin at sunrise. He rose on Saturday night, prior to Sunday sunrise. All four gospels are in agreement about this. Following is an excerpt from one of my teachings taken from the pages of Scripture, not from the errant teachings of men. Posts 81 and 105 in this thread provide more info.

RESURRECTION DAY

10.a. Why do we know that neither the Last Supper nor the day of the crucifixion can possibly be the same day as Passover? Because we can count the days and nights in which Yahoshua's body was dead. We know that He was crucified on the day before Passover. Since Passover is always Friday Abib 14, then He must have been crucified on Thursday Abib 13. Now let us count the days and nights.

Thursday Abib 13 was the last day He was alive, but it is also the first day in which He was dead.

Thursday day of Abib 13 counts as the first day.

Thursday night of Abib 13 counts as the first night.

Friday day of Abib 14 (the day of Passover) counts as the second day.

Friday night of Abib 14 counts as the second night.

Saturday day of Abib 15 (the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread) counts as the third day.

Saturday night of Abib 15 counts as the third night.

We cannot count Sunday day of Abib 16 as resurrection day because that would necessitate the count of a fourth day. Therefore, He must have risen from the dead sometime Saturday night prior to Sunday sunrise. And this is exactly that which the Bible teaches.

10.b. We know that Yahoshua's resurrection did not occur after Sunday sunrise and that it must have occurred sometime Saturday night, most likely in the fourth watch of the night; i.e., between our current day 3 AM and sunrise. We will now examine four parallel verses that show this is that which the Bible teaches. There are a number of time markers in these four passages. I will itemize them now in advance.

1) After the sabbaths

2) at the dawning

3) into the first of the sabbaths

4) the sabbath passing

5) very early on the first of the sabbaths

6) the sun rising

7) upon the first of the week

8) deep dawn

9) very early in the morning

10) on the first of the sabbaths

11) came early

12) darkness yet being on it

10.c Matthew 28:1 TIB, "After the sabbaths, at the dawning (Strong's G2020 epiphosko) into the first of the sabbaths, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the grave." "After the sabbaths" refers to the two sabbaths of (1) Passover and (2) the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which was an annual sabbath as well as a weekly sabbath. "At the dawning" means that there was evidence on the eastern horizon that the sun was soon to rise. In fact, the Greek word for dawning is epiphosko and its meaning is to begin to grow light. "Into the first of the sabbaths" means that the coming day was Sunday Abib 16 (Sheaf Wave Day*), and that it was the first day of the first week in which the counting of seven perfect* sabbaths was to begin. What all of this shows is that it was still Saturday night Abib 15, prior to Sunday Abib 16 sunrise.

*NOTE: Leviticus 23:15 TIB, "And you shall number to you from the next day after the sabbath, from the day you bring in the sheaf of the wave offering; they shall be seven perfect sabbaths[.]"

10.d. Mark 16:1-2 TIB, "1 And the sabbath passing, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome, bought spices so that coming they might anoint Him. 2 And very early (Strong's G4404 proi) on the first of the sabbaths, the sun rising, they came upon the tomb." "And the sabbath passing" means that it was the Saturday sabbath that was passing and sunrise was approaching but the new day had not yet dawned. "And very early on the first of the sabbaths" means that the coming day was Sunday Abib 16, and that it was the first day of the first week in which the counting of seven perfect sabbaths was to begin. But we need to look specifically at the Greek word proi that was translated as early. Proi is Strong's G4404 and it means the day-break watch. In other words it was still the fourth watch of the night, which in our time was approximately 3 AM to sunrise. There can be no mistaking that the Marys arrived at the tomb prior to Sunday sunrise on Abib 16. "The sun rising" means that there was evidence on the eastern horizon that the sun was soon to rise. What all of this shows is that it was still Saturday night Abib 15, prior to Sunday Abib 16 sunrise.

10.e. Luke 24:1-2 KJV, "1 Now upon the first day of the week, very (Strong's G901 bathus) early (Strong's G3722 orthros) in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre." "Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning" really has no different meaning than Mark 16:1-2. "Very early in the morning" means that sunrise had not yet taken place. Actually, the two Greeks words inserted into the passage above mean deep dawn. Strong's G901 bathus means deep and G3722 orthros means dawn. Therefore, the beginning of this verse could have been translated as "Now upon the first of the week, at deep dawn, they came unto the sepulchre…". The meaning of deep dawn is that it was just beginning, and the evidence of the sun starting to rise was barely perceptible. In other words, it was the beginning of dawn, not the middle, not a full blown dawn, not the last few seconds prior to sunrise - instead, it was deep dawn.

So, why call it the first day of the week, which is Sunday? Let us suppose that sunrise was at 6 AM. We are arriving at the tomb at 5:30 AM. Even though it is not officially Sunday yet, would it not be acceptable to express that it was the first day of the week, very early in the morning? What wording would you prefer? Possibly, the sun was rising and any minute the Sabbath would be over and we are now arriving at the tomb. Even today, if we got up to go fishing at 3 AM, we would say early in the morning we will go fishing, not at all meaning that it was sunrise yet. Likewise, if the following morning we got up at 3 AM because we got sick from eating rotten fish, we would tell our fishing buddy that we got up in the middle of the night. So, which is it? Is 3 AM the middle of the night or is it early in the morning? Both answers are acceptable, depending upon the circumstances. So, Luke is consistent with the other three gospels in describing an event that began on Saturday Abib 15.

Let us place ourselves into the first century. Was time told in minutes? This is a highly doubtful proposition, even ridiculous. What technical capabilities did they possess to enable them to estimate time in minutes? The answer is none that they could carry around with them - no wristwatches or cell phones. So, in a society that must use time markers, instead of a watch to indicate time, we can expect that one would say things such as, "Now on the first of the week, very early in the morning", or better still "Now on the first of the week, at deep dawn". And this would not mean that the previous day was officially over (because the sun had not risen yet), it would mean that a new day is coming on, or approaching.

But please remember this. This scene being described in these four gospels is not a static scene. The Marys were indeed arriving at the tomb prior to sunrise. At this time the stone was already rolled away and the tomb was empty. Even though they arrived prior to sunrise, it is easy to see that sunrise probably occurred while they were at the tomb. After all the scene is not static, it is active and moving, time is progressing. The resurrection must have taken place prior to sunrise and therefore it took place on the night of Saturday Abib 15.

10.f. John 20:1 TIB, "But on the first of the sabbaths Mary Magdalene came early (Strong's G4404 proi) to the tomb, darkness yet being on it. And she saw the stone had been removed from the tomb." John's gospel helps us understand, perhaps more than the other three, exactly how this scene played out. But remember, as we are doing, all the Scriptures, the full counsel of God must be consulted, before we have the full story. John's gospel is not in opposition to the other gospels, it is complimentary to them. So, that the fours gospels together give us the complete picture that we need.

"But on the first of the sabbaths" means that the coming day was Sunday Abib 16, and that it was the first day of the first week in which the counting of seven perfect sabbaths was to begin. "Came early" means that the sun had not risen and the new day had not yet officially begun. Remember that we just explained above that proi translated as early means the day-break watch. "Darkness yet being on it" leaves zero doubt about the position of the sun - it had not risen yet because it was still dark. This parallel passage in John affirms the exegesis that I have given all along in all the four gospels regarding the time markers used to describe the time of day in which the Marys arrived at the tomb.

10.g. Our final conclusion, based partly on that which is taught in these four parallel Scriptures, is that Christ Yahoshua was resurrected from the dead late Saturday night Abib 15 and prior to sunrise on Sunday morning Abib 16. This satisfies all the requirements given in Matthew 12:40 and all the other Scriptures that describe the number of days in which our Savior was in the heart of the earth.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

<< To claim that the Ten Commandments exist but New Covenant Christians are exempt from them >>

Who is saying that???

<< unless one tries to make the ridiculous argument that only unsaved people are required to keep them (impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV), and once one is saved, he can safely disregard them. >>

Yes, that is a ridiculous argument.

<< The Ten Commandments existed before the Law of Moses >>

There is no evidence of that. It is pure speculation.

<< tying them to the Law of Moses in order to exempt oneself from them is theological skulduggery. >>

They are part of the Law of Moses. They are a part of the Old Covenant, the Vassal-Suzerain Treaty between Israel and God. Separating the 10 from the rest of the Law is a fabrication used by Ellen G. White (based on her abject ignorance) which she used to convince her suckers followers that they should go to church on Saturday rather than on Sunday, the day Christ rose.

Who is saying that they are exempt from the 10 commandments and can commit murder and adultery at will?

What are you talking about? :huh:

1. Are we required to keep the seventh day Sabbath or not? If not, then it is you who is saying that we may freely disregard the Ten Commandments.

• God reprimanded the Israel in chapter 16 for failure to keep His "LAWS" (PLURAL) when He had only told them to keep the Sabbath, and this was BEFORE they arrived at Mount Sinai.

• Lucifer sinned in heaven and "where there is no law, there is no sin."

• Joseph knew adultery with Mrs. P was "great wickedness" and "sin against God", sin being "the transgression of the law".

• Cain did not argue ignorance of "thou shalt not kill", just that his punishment was too severe.

• Rachel stole from her father and lied about it.

• Abraham lied twice about Sarah.

Are you really going to argue that these people were not aware of God's laws?

2. Yes, it is a ridiculous argument used by those in rebellion to God's law.

3. Brother, those who love Jesus will keep His commandments, not some of them or most of them, but ALL TEN of them and will never argue that we may worship Satan, worship in the Bohemian Grove, blaspheme His name or break His Sabbath, because He said "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" and it was He that wrote those laws on stone with His own finger, according to "Psalm 78:1-2.

 

[zeke25]

• God reprimanded the Israel in chapter 16 for failure to keep His "LAWS" (PLURAL) when He had only told them to keep the Sabbath, and this was BEFORE they arrived at Mount Sinai.

Phoneman777,

It would help if you would read post #81 in this thread. In this case Part III. It will explain who the Sabbath was given to. Since you apparently will not go to post #81, I have brought Part III to you here.

Sabbath Keeping
Part III - Who It Was Given To


1. The sons of Jacob became a nation when they were taken out of Egypt. Deuteronomy 4:34 KJV, "Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that [Yahowah] your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?" After God had led the nation of Israel out of Egypt and into the Desert of Sin, the sabbath - for the first time - made its splash on the pages of Scripture. Exodus 16:22-23 KJV 22, "22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 And he said unto them, This is that which [Yahowah] hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto [Yahowah]: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." It is important to know that no one, including the Hebrews, had been given the sabbath prior to this time. This is shown in Nehemiah 9:14 KJV, "And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant." See also Ezekiel 20:12 (Part II). God is being praised here for making known His holy sabbath to the Hebrews. In other words, His holy sabbath was not known prior to this time, the time of Moses. If you read Parts I and II of this Sabbath Keeping treatise you will find more Scriptures that verify this teaching.

2. The sabbath was not given to mankind, but to Israel only. And in Exodus 16, the sabbath was not given to Israel as part of their Law (the Torah), i.e., the Jewish legal system. The Law was yet to come at Mount Sinai. The sabbath was given to them as a rest and as a holy day unto Yahowah. No penalty was assessed to those who broke this sabbath, penalties were to come later, with the Law. No time limit was imposed in the Desert of Sin regarding the sabbath. God said He was testing their obedience. Exodus 16:4-5,27 KJV, "4 Then said [Yahowah] unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. 5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily. 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none." When God said, "that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no," this does not mean that the Law had now come. To properly understand this phrase, it needs to be understood as "I will test them now to see, when my law comes, whether they will obey it or not." God was preparing His people for the introduction of the Torah. From Adam until Moses, God had introduced various laws that He expected men to obey. But it was not until Mount Sinai in Exodus 20 that God gave the Torah, and He gave it to His chosen people, the Hebrews, the descendants of Jacob and Jacob's twelve sons.

3. With the introduction of the Torah came the requirement to keep the sabbath as part of a closed legal system. Exodus 20:8-11 KJV, "8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of [Yahowah] thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days [Yahowah] made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore [Yahowah] blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Just because God has used the seven days of creation as a pattern for giving the sabbath day of rest to the Hebrews does not make creation week a perfect week (a week that begins on Sunday and ends on Saturday) and it does not make the seventh day of creation a sabbath. When verse eleven says that Yahowah blessed the sabbath day, this Scripture is referring only to the seventh day of a perfect week that He has just given to the Hebrews. And He is using the seven days of creation only as a pattern of six days of work followed by one day of rest. He is not establishing, after the fact (three millennium later), that creation week had a sabbath at the end of it. There are some who are desperate to place God in a box. Their imaginations never rest inventing interpretations to Scriptures to ensure that at the end of the discussion that a sabbath has been established during creation week, even though the Scriptures do not teach it. In fact, the seventh day of creation week is a Friday, not a Saturday or Sabbath: see our treatise on the "Calendar of Scripture" parts I and II.

4. What is the Torah, or the Law (meaning the Law of Moses)? Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV, "24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of [Yahowah] saying 26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of [Yahowah] your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." The Law (the Ten Commandments plus more) which was given at Mount Sinai, was first written in Scripture in Exodus 20:1 and continued to be written well into Exodus 23 and beyond. The Law is confirmed in Exodus 24:3 with oaths from the Hebrews; with the preparation of altars in Exodus 24:4; with offerings by the people in Exodus 24:5; with the sanctification of the people in Exodus 24:8; and God giving a written copy in stone of those laws (the Torah) in Exodus 24:12. Exodus 20:1 KJV, "And God spoke all these words." Exodus 24:3 KJV, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of [Yahowah], and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which [Yahowah] hath said will we do." Exodus 24:4 KJV, "And Moses wrote all the words of [Yahowah], and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel." Exodus 24:5 KJV, "And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto [Yahowah]." Exodus 24:8 KJV, "And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which [Yahowah] hath made with you concerning all these words." Exodus 24:12 KJV, "And [Yahowah] said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them."

5. We can now see that Yahowah's seventh day of a perfect week sabbath had a place in history (for only three weeks) with only the Israelites before the Torah (or Law) and it has had a separate history within the Torah and the Israelite nation that the Torah was given to. So, when the Torah is taken away, we can more clearly see how this affects the keeping of the sabbath. Since the Torah was given to the Israelites, when the Torah is taken away, it can only be taken from the Israelites, because no one else had it. Since the Torah was the only legal system that required the keeping of the sabbath, then sabbath keeping outside of the Torah is not required by God. But one might say, wait a minute, the keeping of the sabbath was required before the Torah in the Desert of Sin as spoken of in Exodus 16:23. That is true. But it seems clear to me that Yahowah, in His graciousness and wisdom gave the sabbath to the Israelites just prior to the Torah, because He was breaking them in slowly and methodically to their new requirements that were yet to come. Many times when driving on the road, prior to a stop sign or a change in speed limit, a warning sign appears: "Stop Ahead" or "Reduce Speed Ahead". The Desert of Sin story in Exodus 16 is a warning sign from our God: "Change In Rules Ahead" or "Heads Up, Something New Is Happening". After all, He did not establish penalties for sabbath breaking in the Desert of Sin. Those penalties came with the Torah.

Zeke25

 

[JimParker]

1. Are we required to keep the seventh day Sabbath or not? If not, then it is you who is saying that we may freely disregard the Ten Commandments.

• God reprimanded the Israel in chapter 16 for failure to keep His "LAWS" (PLURAL) when He had only told them to keep the Sabbath, and this was BEFORE they arrived at Mount Sinai.

• Lucifer sinned in heaven and "where there is no law, there is no sin."

• Joseph knew adultery with Mrs. P was "great wickedness" and "sin against God", sin being "the transgression of the law".

• Cain did not argue ignorance of "thou shalt not kill", just that his punishment was too severe.

• Rachel stole from her father and lied about it.

• Abraham lied twice about Sarah.

Are you really going to argue that these people were not aware of God's laws?

2. Yes, it is a ridiculous argument used by those in rebellion to God's law.

3. Brother, those who love Jesus will keep His commandments, not some of them or most of them, but ALL TEN of them and will never argue that we may worship Satan, worship in the Bohemian Grove, blaspheme His name or break His Sabbath, because He said "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" and it was He that wrote those laws on stone with His own finger, according to "Psalm 78:1-2.

<<Are we required to keep the seventh day Sabbath or not?>>

Good question. What does the New Covenant teach about keeping the Sabbath rest?

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, (NKJV)
Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. (NKJV)

So, we keep the Sabbath by believing.

<< God reprimanded the Israel in chapter 16 for failure to keep His "LAWS" (PLURAL) when He had only told them to keep the Sabbath, and this was BEFORE they arrived at Mount Sinai. >>

The 10 commandments do not explain HOW to keep the Sabbath. The instructions as to HOW to keep the Sabbath are in the rest of the Law of Moses.

EX 16:29; 20:8; 31:14; 35:1; LEV 23:3; DT 5:12

You cannot keep the Sabbath unless you keep those 6 laws which were given to Moses AFTER they arrived at Mt. Sinai.

And, if you insist on keeping the Sabbath according to the Law of Moses, then you are cursed.

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

So, by insisting that Christians must keep the Law of Moses (EX 16:29; 20:8; 31:14; 35:1; LEV 23:3; DT 5:12) you insist that they keep ALL 316 laws, regulations, and stipulations and that is impossible to do.

<< Lucifer sinned in heaven and "where there is no law, there is no sin." >>

The point which Paul was making was about the promise given to Abraham (and to the Church) which is received by faith, not by keeping the law.
For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. (Rom 4:14-16)

You have lifted that snippet of scripture out of its context and have attempted to make a point which the scripture does not make. Paul also said, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law," (Rom 2:12) which is what happened to Satan.

<< Are you really going to argue that these people were not aware of God's laws? >>

They were aware of what is good and what is evil because Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

You are conflating your imaginary set of unwritten"God's laws" with "The Law of Moses" (including the 10 commands.) The Law of Moses is a specific covenant between God and the specific people called Israel. Whatever understanding mankind had concerning God, His will, good and evil, etc. Is NOT the Law of Moses where the commands are found which explain how the Sabbath is to be kept.

The Sabbath commands ARE a part of the law of Moses.

Your assumption that, because man knew about good and evil before the Law of Moses, man must have known the specific Law of Moses is totally illogical.

You are essentially saying that, (1) because man knew that certain acts were sin and (2) the Law of Moses defines sin, that man knew the Law of Moses with reference to keeping the Sabbath, before gave it. But, in fact, the word "Sabbath" does not appear anywhere in the book of Genesis in which each of your examples is found. There is no Biblical evidence that anyone kept the Sabbath before the Israelites were given the Law of Moses.

And you are basing your entire argument on that logical failure, on that nonsense.

<< it is a ridiculous argument used by those in rebellion to God's law. >>

So, you are now arguing that those who are saved by grace through faith must also keep the Law. Nothing changes! Paul had a problem with the Judaizers just like you and here you are today telling people that they must keep the Law in order to be saved.

The is certainly nothing new under the sun!

<< Brother, those who love Jesus will keep His commandments, not some of them or most of them, but ALL TEN of them...>>

All of the 613 laws in the Book of the Law were Jesus' commandments, not just the 10.

Without the ENTIRE law, the command to keep the Sabbath holy is meaningless because the 10 do not tell anyone HOW to keep the Sabbath.

You are advocating that Christians go back under the Law because HOW to keep the Sabbath is part of the Law of Moses.

Rom 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

In response to your points:

1. To claim that the Ten Commandments exist but New Covenant Christians are exempt from them is the same as claiming they are done away with

No it is not. Someone being exempt from a law does not "do away with" the law itself as long as it still applies to someone else. Read Romans 7:1-6 and take the time to think about the example that Paul gives to us in order to illustrate how it works. Ask yourself, were the laws concerning adultery done away with in this example, or did the death of the woman's husband make her exempt from that law?

The law still remained in effect to those to whom it still applied! Similarly, the Mosaic law still appies - to those who are under that law - it has not been done away with!

2. The Ten Commandments existed before the Law of Moses and will continue to exist for all eternity.

That also is simply not true. And it can be proven through scripture. Deut 5:2-4 teaches us that the patriarchs were not familiar with the Old Covenant and Nehemiah 9:14 explains that the Sabbath was "made known" by the hand of Moses.

What do you think the apostle Paul meant when he said "where there is no law there is no transgression." Obviously there were times in history where "there was no law", otherwise his comment would have been completely pointless.

Sure, you can always point out that "before the law was given, sin was in the world" (Rom 5:13), but this is not what is being disputed. Sin existed since the fall of Adam and still exists today even among those of the New Covenant. But neverthelses, we are no longer under the Old Covenant law, which includes the 10 commandments. If you disagree then use scripture to prove your point. The law of the Old Coventant does not remedy sin.

All of His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever

So was the commandment given to Abraham by God to cut the throat of his own son an eternal commandment that stands fast forever and ever? Was the commandment to circumcise every male child on the eight day a commandment that stands forever and ever?

The only way you can harmonize that verse with the entire cousel of scripture is by understanding that whatever commandment he gives to either a nation, a group of people, or one single individual, is something that applies and stands forever.

The Ten Commandments were written by the hand of God, not Moses.

And???

The problem with that is that proponents of that particular arguments have to go beyond what scripture says, and actually contradict it, in order to make their point!
Why not just stick to what scripture itself actually says? Which is NOT that the ten commandments should be considered permanent based on the fact that God wrote them himself. What it actually tells us is that they belong to a covenant whose ministry is "fading", in contrast to one that "lasts". Read 2 Cor 3.

3. Yes, the verse says "the law" and not "the Ten Commandments", but just what law can John be referring to if the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross? Don't answer "the law of love" because that is just a cop out for those who love sin and hate righteousness

Whereas none of the NT authors make the slightest mention of the 10 commandments being separate from the OT law, ALL of them make references to the law of Christ - to believe in the gospel and love one's neighbor as oneself. Anyone who does so does not "love sin and hate righteousness", as you falsely claim. The law that Paul (not John) claimed was nailed to the cross was the one that was "against" us. If you can prove that it was only "ceremonial" laws rather than "moral" laws (a distiction that the Bible does not make) were against us then I will tip my hat to you. But the fact of the matter is that 2 Cor 3:7-9 teaches is that the ministry of 10 commandments brought death and condemnation, NOT any so-called "ceremonial" laws.

So please take the time and effort to address my points, rather than parrot the teaching that has been handed down to you by others.

 

[Phoneman777]

<<Are we required to keep the seventh day Sabbath or not?>>

Good question. What does the New Covenant teach about keeping the Sabbath rest?

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, (NKJV)
Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. (NKJV)

So, we keep the Sabbath by believing.

<< God reprimanded the Israel in chapter 16 for failure to keep His "LAWS" (PLURAL) when He had only told them to keep the Sabbath, and this was BEFORE they arrived at Mount Sinai. >>

The 10 commandments do not explain HOW to keep the Sabbath. The instructions as to HOW to keep the Sabbath are in the rest of the Law of Moses.

EX 16:29; 20:8; 31:14; 35:1; LEV 23:3; DT 5:12

You cannot keep the Sabbath unless you keep those 6 laws which were given to Moses AFTER they arrived at Mt. Sinai.

And, if you insist on keeping the Sabbath according to the Law of Moses, then you are cursed.

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

So, by insisting that Christians must keep the Law of Moses (EX 16:29; 20:8; 31:14; 35:1; LEV 23:3; DT 5:12) you insist that they keep ALL 316 laws, regulations, and stipulations and that is impossible to do.

<< Lucifer sinned in heaven and "where there is no law, there is no sin." >>

The point which Paul was making was about the promise given to Abraham (and to the Church) which is received by faith, not by keeping the law.
For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. (Rom 4:14-16)

You have lifted that snippet of scripture out of its context and have attempted to make a point which the scripture does not make. Paul also said, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law," (Rom 2:12) which is what happened to Satan.

<< Are you really going to argue that these people were not aware of God's laws? >>

They were aware of what is good and what is evil because Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

You are conflating your imaginary set of unwritten"God's laws" with "The Law of Moses" (including the 10 commands.) The Law of Moses is a specific covenant between God and the specific people called Israel. Whatever understanding mankind had concerning God, His will, good and evil, etc. Is NOT the Law of Moses where the commands are found which explain how the Sabbath is to be kept.

The Sabbath commands ARE a part of the law of Moses.

Your assumption that, because man knew about good and evil before the Law of Moses, man must have known the specific Law of Moses is totally illogical.

You are essentially saying that, (1) because man knew that certain acts were sin and (2) the Law of Moses defines sin, that man knew the Law of Moses with reference to keeping the Sabbath, before gave it. But, in fact, the word "Sabbath" does not appear anywhere in the book of Genesis in which each of your examples is found. There is no Biblical evidence that anyone kept the Sabbath before the Israelites were given the Law of Moses.

And you are basing your entire argument on that logical failure, on that nonsense.

<< it is a ridiculous argument used by those in rebellion to God's law. >>

So, you are now arguing that those who are saved by grace through faith must also keep the Law. Nothing changes! Paul had a problem with the Judaizers just like you and here you are today telling people that they must keep the Law in order to be saved.

The is certainly nothing new under the sun!

<< Brother, those who love Jesus will keep His commandments, not some of them or most of them, but ALL TEN of them...>>

All of the 613 laws in the Book of the Law were Jesus' commandments, not just the 10.

Without the ENTIRE law, the command to keep the Sabbath holy is meaningless because the 10 do not tell anyone HOW to keep the Sabbath.

You are advocating that Christians go back under the Law because HOW to keep the Sabbath is part of the Law of Moses.

Rom 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Will I be able to have Satan as my god before God in heaven?
Will I be able to fashion graven images and bow myself down to them in heaven?
Will I be able to run around heaven blaspheming God's name?
Will I be able to lie, steal, kill, etc. in heaven?

Iniquity means "known, deliberate commandment breaking". Please stop fighting against God's eternal Ten Commandments. The most tragic words ever spoken will be Jesus saying to shocked, panicked, utterly confounded so-called "Christian" commandment breakers, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[justaname]

Will I be able to have Satan as my god before God in heaven?
Will I be able to fashion graven images and bow myself down to them in heaven?
Will I be able to run around heaven blaspheming God's name?
Will I be able to lie, steal, kill, etc. in heaven?

Iniquity means "known, deliberate commandment breaking". Please stop fighting against God's eternal Ten Commandments. The most tragic words ever spoken will be Jesus saying to shocked, panicked, utterly confounded so-called "Christian" commandment breakers, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

By asking these questions it is quite obvious you do not comprehend love, and how loving elevates the requirements given through Moses...perhaps you would do well to read the beatitudes.

 

[Phoneman777]

By asking these questions it is quite obvious you do not comprehend love, and how loving elevates the requirements given through Moses...perhaps you would do well to read the beatitudes.

Thank you, but my understanding of love comes from the words of Jesus: "If ye love Me, keep My commandments". Those who love Jesus will not fight against His Ten Commandments, but will strive to keep the first four, and those who love their neighbor, the last six. If one is to be saved, he must first repent of sin, allow Jesus to come into his heart, and allow Him to keep His own law in him as He lives out His life through him and gives him credit for what He has done. It's called "righteousness by faith", without which no man will enter the kingdom of God where the Ten Commandments will be kept for all eternity (Psalm 111:7-8 KJV)

 

[zeke25]

My understanding of love comes from the words of Jesus: "If ye love Me, keep My commandments". Those who love Jesus will not fight against His commandments, but will strive to keep the first four, and those who love their neighbor, the last six. If one is to be saved, he must first repent of sin, allow Jesus to come into his heart, and allow Him to keep His own law in him as He lives out His life through him and gives him credit for what He has done. It's called "righteousness by faith", without which no man will enter the kingdom of God where the Ten Commandments will be kept for all eternity (Psalm 111:7-8 KJV)

Phoneman777,

You have conveniently ignored post #172 which I directed to you. Why is this? It is because you have no defense against the Scriptures that teach against that which you propose. Take, for example, in my para 1 Nehemiah 9:14 (which has been pointed out to you before), how can you refute this Scripture and say that this commandment has been given to anyone else besides the Hebrews? Why do you ignore all of this information? Is is because it is too lengthy and detailed and you want to play microwave theology instead of really doing some deep study? You are never going to come out from under your deception if you are unwilling to dig deep, study hard, and study long. Regurgitating small pieces of what you have been erroneously taught is never going to give you the whole picture, or the truth. Anything can be made to sound right, if you leave all the inconvenient information out that contradicts your bits and pieces of arguments.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

The Church is not Israel or Judah, not even spiritually. The Hebrews passage does not say the New Covenant was "only for Israel". Eisegesis sees the word "only". Paul explains this as the mystery...

Bad theology leads to bad doctrine...

If you believe God is done with His people Israel you do not know God.

The New Covenant specifically says that it is only between God and "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" (Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV) and anyone who would partake of that covenant must become a "spiritual Israelite" and allow the Holy Spirit to write His Ten Commandments on their minds and hearts (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV).

Also, God's condition for gathering Israel back to the land after scattering them to the wind in divine judgment was and is repentance (2 Chronicles 6 KJV and 2 Chronicles 7 KJV) and the nation of Israel has never repented of rejecting and murdering Jesus. Please don't refer to them as "God's people" for God's promise to "bless them that bless you and curse them that curse you" was to Abraham and his true descendants who belong to Christ (Galatians 3:29 KJV), not those to whom the devil is their father (John 8:44 KJV).

Phoneman777,

You have conveniently ignored post #172 which I directed to you. Why is this? It is because you have no defense against the Scriptures that teach against that which you propose. Take, for example, in my para 1 Nehemiah 9:14 (which has been pointed out to you before), how can you refute this Scripture and say that this commandment has been given to anyone else besides the Hebrews? Why do you ignore all of this information? Is is because it is too lengthy and detailed and you want to play microwave theology instead of really doing some deep study? You are never going to come out from under your deception if you are unwilling to dig deep, study hard, and study long. Regurgitating small pieces of what you have been erroneously taught is never going to give you the whole picture, or the truth. Anything can be made to sound right, if you leave all the inconvenient information out that contradicts your bits and pieces of arguments.

Zeke25

The Bible evidence points to the fact that the God created the Sabbath for mankind, not just the Israelites, that proper Sabbath observance was restored even before the Israelites were even set free (Exodus 4:29 KJV - Exodus 5:5 KJV), that it was kept all throughout the OT, that is was kept in the NT, history declares that is was kept after the first century by Christians everywhere until little by little Rome would reach out and abolish it and set up the day dedicated to the Sun god, and will be kept in the Kingdom - yet somehow you conclude that God temporarily flipped the script by doing away with it while the church is still down here? Your verses prove NOTHING seeing that the laws of Moses were nailed to the cross.

 

[zeke25]

The New Covenant specifically says that it is only between God and "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" (Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV) and anyone who would partake of that covenant must become a "spiritual Israelite" and allow the Holy Spirit to write His Ten Commandments on their minds and hearts (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV).

Also, God's condition for gathering Israel back to the land after scattering them to the wind in divine judgment was and is repentance (2 Chronicles 6 KJV and 2 Chronicles 7 KJV) and the nation of Israel has never repented of rejecting and murdering Jesus. Please don't refer to them as "God's people" for God's promise to "bless them that bless you and curse them that curse you" was to Abraham and his true descendants who belong to Christ (Galatians 3:29 KJV), not those to whom the devil is their father (John 8:44 KJV).

The Bible evidence points to the fact that the God created the Sabbath for mankind, not just the Israelites, that proper Sabbath observance was restored even before the Israelites were even set free (Exodus 4:29 KJV - Exodus 5:5 KJV), that it was kept all throughout the OT, that is was kept in the NT, history declares that is was kept after the first century by Christians everywhere until little by little Rome would reach out and abolish it and set up the day dedicated to the Sun god, and will be kept in the Kingdom - yet somehow you conclude that God temporarily flipped the script by doing away with it while the church is still down here? Your verses prove NOTHING seeing that the laws of Moses were nailed to the cross.

Phoneman777,

There is nothing in the verses you gave (Exodus 4:29 - 5:5) that speaks to the sabbath at all. Also, you have provided no Scriptures to support your statement that the sabbath was observed throughout the OT, much less the NT. You have not addressed Nehemiah 9:14 at all, which contradicts everything you have just said. Please tell me what you have done with Nehemiah 9:14, have you snipped and cut it from your copy of the Bible?

Besides, use some common sense. If the Hebrews had a sabbath, why did they march out of the Land of Goshen on a Saturday?

Also, you have not shown a single Scripture to show that the sabbath was even mentioned in the book of Genesis, nor in the book of Exodus until Ex. 16:23 - all of this is about 2 ½ thousand years since Creation Week, no sabbath anywhere, at any time. What say you?

Zeke25