Sabbath-Keeping

[Jun2u]

[SIZE=12pt]God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak, Mark 4:34; Psalm 78:2.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritually meaning and therefore, the whole Bible then becomes a parable because it is the story book written by God for mankind. This theme will be my method in trying to unravel the mystery of the Sabbaths by comparing scripture with scripture and spiritual things with spiritual.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Old Testament Sabbath[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]God began creation on the first day of the week and rested from His labor on the seventh day. Even as God instituted the command of no work of any kind is to be done on that day, the punishment of disobedience was so great as to be stoned to death (Ex 31:14-15), an example, the man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath in Numbers 15:35.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The Seventh Day Sabbath, which is our Saturday, was a sign (shadow) Ex 31:13 to be observed until Christ (reality) went to the cross, pointing to the fact that that Saturday Sabbath, the Israelites were not to do any work of any kind.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]But now we have the Sunday Sabbath which God changed the day from Saturday to Sunday in Matthew 28:1.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are those who tried to change the meaning of God's words in Matthew 28:1 to say that the word "dawn” means the sun is coming out from the horizon. I think they say this to fit their theological assumption of a Saturday resurrection but this will not wash with Scripture as we shall see.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Reminds me of a secular hit song entitled “Aquarius” many years back and the lyrics to the chorus went this way, “This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius, age of Aquarius, Aquarius…”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I don't believe the writer of the song meant that he sees the sun coming out of the horizon rather, I believe the writer meant a new age (era) is coming into view (dawning, emerging) just as God had in mind in Matthew 28:1.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The above said is the only way to understand Mt 28:1 as the verse explicitly indicated an end of the Old Testament Seventh Day Sabbaths, as a New Testament Sunday Sabbaths is emerging.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Sunday Sabbath…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Is the Sunday Sabbath a day of absolute rest or can we do chores?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The Scripture that best expresses the Sunday Sabbath is found in Isaiah 58:13. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The context of Isaiah 58:13 clearly shows it is talking about the New Testament Sabbath and not about the Old Testament Saturday Sabbath. There the term “if thou turn away thy foot” - God uses the words “foot” and “hands” to express “will”. When we are using our feet we are expressing our will where we want to go. When we are using our hands we are expressing our will, we do what our mind is telling us what to do.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“If thou turn away thy foot”[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] – that is if you turn away your will from doing what you want on the Sabbath, “from doing thy pleasure on my holy day” - here God calls that a holy day, a day set apart, holy means set apart – “and call the Sabbath a delight the holy of the Lord honorable and shall honor Him” - that is on the Sabbath, our focus has to be on honoring God – “not doing thine own ways” – see how it ties in with turning away your foot from the Sabbath? Don’t do your will, not do your own ways – “nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words”:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Verse 14: “Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord…[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it”.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] This is a direct command right from the mouth of God, same as of the whole Bible of course. God is emphasizing, I told you about the Sunday Sabbath that it is my holy day, it’s not for your pleasure, it is for doing My will, and God is saying bear in mind this is what I have told you to do. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]How do we do God’s way? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]We search the Bible on how to do God’s way and find for example, creation began on the first day of the week which would be our Sunday. What did God do on that day? He said, “Let there be light”, and to send out the light of the Gospel and because that is the spiritual light that was anticipated in that statement “let there be light” now identifies with the Gospel going out into the world. It is a day to share the Gospel. God really underscored this when Christ Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday morning. When Jesus arose He was the first fruit it means that those who become saved identified with His resurrection, and that too emphasizes Sunday. And then again remember Pentecost when three thousand were saved? That also was a Sunday. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]So we put all of the above together and we see how to do God’s will on the Sunday Sabbath: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]!. It is a day for us to be concerned about what the Bible teaches. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2. It is a day to study the Bible. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3. It is a day to share the Gospel with family, friends, those in the hospitals and in prison…etc. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]4. It is a day that we want to use to the highest degree in spending time with God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]5. It is not a day just to rest in bed and not do any work. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Sabbath As A Ominous Warning…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The central theme of the Bible is Salvation! Therefore everything in the Bible interrelates. There is no other book “out there” that can solve the problem of sin except the Bible and not the Koran nor the book of Mormon, JW, SDA…etc.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]God in the beginning have tested mankind in the person of Adam and the rest is history. God again tested man in the wilderness and because of unbelief they could not enter into the Promised Land. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Even on that Seventh Day Sabbath the Israelites were commanded not to do any work of any kind just as we are not to work for our salvation![/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are many who have the naive notion that they have “free will” to choose for God and that all they have to do is believe and claim Romans 10:9-12, yet believing is a work (ITh 1:3) that man performs and contrary to Eph 2: 8-9 and Ro 3:10-12. Besides, can they make themselves be born again?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Today, God is testing mankind once again. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Are we going to believe that Jesus alone did all the work to save us or will we insist that we can make some kind of contribution/work for our salvation?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]To God Be The Glory [/SIZE]

 

[mjrhealth]

[SIZE=12pt]But now we have the Sunday Sabbath which God changed the day from Saturday to Sunday in Matthew 28:1.[/SIZE]

Doesnt even say that. What book are you reading.

So we go from the law and Gods covenant to the Jews, to a lie.

If you choose to keep the Sabbath unto God great, dont expect any brownie points, but if you do it unto the Law, than you must keep them all, everyone. If you break one you break them all, there is no grace for those who choose the law especially since it was never yours in the first place.

Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Gal_3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Even more so

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Choose whom you will serve God or the Law

In all His Love

 

[zeke25]

[SIZE=12pt]God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak, Mark 4:34; Psalm 78:2.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritually meaning and therefore, the whole Bible then becomes a parable because it is the story book written by God for mankind. This theme will be my method in trying to unravel the mystery of the Sabbaths by comparing scripture with scripture and spiritual things with spiritual.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Old Testament Sabbath[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]God began creation on the first day of the week and rested from His labor on the seventh day. Even as God instituted the command of no work of any kind is to be done on that day, the punishment of disobedience was so great as to be stoned to death (Ex 31:14-15), an example, the man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath in Numbers 15:35.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The Seventh Day Sabbath, which is our Saturday, was a sign (shadow) Ex 31:13 to be observed until Christ (reality) went to the cross, pointing to the fact that that Saturday Sabbath, the Israelites were not to do any work of any kind.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]But now we have the Sunday Sabbath which God changed the day from Saturday to Sunday in Matthew 28:1.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are those who tried to change the meaning of God's words in Matthew 28:1 to say that the word "dawn” means the sun is coming out from the horizon. I think they say this to fit their theological assumption of a Saturday resurrection but this will not wash with Scripture as we shall see.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Reminds me of a secular hit song entitled “Aquarius” many years back and the lyrics to the chorus went this way, “This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius, age of Aquarius, Aquarius…”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I don't believe the writer of the song meant that he sees the sun coming out of the horizon rather, I believe the writer meant a new age (era) is coming into view (dawning, emerging) just as God had in mind in Matthew 28:1.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The above said is the only way to understand Mt 28:1 as the verse explicitly indicated an end of the Old Testament Seventh Day Sabbaths, as a New Testament Sunday Sabbaths is emerging.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Sunday Sabbath…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Is the Sunday Sabbath a day of absolute rest or can we do chores?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The Scripture that best expresses the Sunday Sabbath is found in Isaiah 58:13. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The context of Isaiah 58:13 clearly shows it is talking about the New Testament Sabbath and not about the Old Testament Saturday Sabbath. There the term “if thou turn away thy foot” - God uses the words “foot” and “hands” to express “will”. When we are using our feet we are expressing our will where we want to go. When we are using our hands we are expressing our will, we do what our mind is telling us what to do.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“If thou turn away thy foot”[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] – that is if you turn away your will from doing what you want on the Sabbath, “from doing thy pleasure on my holy day” - here God calls that a holy day, a day set apart, holy means set apart – “and call the Sabbath a delight the holy of the Lord honorable and shall honor Him” - that is on the Sabbath, our focus has to be on honoring God – “not doing thine own ways” – see how it ties in with turning away your foot from the Sabbath? Don’t do your will, not do your own ways – “nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words”:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Verse 14: “Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord…[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it”.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] This is a direct command right from the mouth of God, same as of the whole Bible of course. God is emphasizing, I told you about the Sunday Sabbath that it is my holy day, it’s not for your pleasure, it is for doing My will, and God is saying bear in mind this is what I have told you to do. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]How do we do God’s way? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]We search the Bible on how to do God’s way and find for example, creation began on the first day of the week which would be our Sunday. What did God do on that day? He said, “Let there be light”, and to send out the light of the Gospel and because that is the spiritual light that was anticipated in that statement “let there be light” now identifies with the Gospel going out into the world. It is a day to share the Gospel. God really underscored this when Christ Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday morning. When Jesus arose He was the first fruit it means that those who become saved identified with His resurrection, and that too emphasizes Sunday. And then again remember Pentecost when three thousand were saved? That also was a Sunday. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]So we put all of the above together and we see how to do God’s will on the Sunday Sabbath: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]!. It is a day for us to be concerned about what the Bible teaches. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2. It is a day to study the Bible. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3. It is a day to share the Gospel with family, friends, those in the hospitals and in prison…etc. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]4. It is a day that we want to use to the highest degree in spending time with God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]5. It is not a day just to rest in bed and not do any work. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Sabbath As A Ominous Warning…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The central theme of the Bible is Salvation! Therefore everything in the Bible interrelates. There is no other book “out there” that can solve the problem of sin except the Bible and not the Koran nor the book of Mormon, JW, SDA…etc.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]God in the beginning have tested mankind in the person of Adam and the rest is history. God again tested man in the wilderness and because of unbelief they could not enter into the Promised Land. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Even on that Seventh Day Sabbath the Israelites were commanded not to do any work of any kind just as we are not to work for our salvation![/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are many who have the naive notion that they have “free will” to choose for God and that all they have to do is believe and claim Romans 10:9-12, yet believing is a work (ITh 1:3) that man performs and contrary to Eph 2: 8-9 and Ro 3:10-12. Besides, can they make themselves be born again?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Today, God is testing mankind once again. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Are we going to believe that Jesus alone did all the work to save us or will we insist that we can make some kind of contribution/work for our salvation?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]To God Be The Glory [/SIZE]

Jun2u,

Jun2u said: “God began creation on the first day of the week and rested from His labor on the seventh day.”

Zeke25: You have no Scriptural evidence for this. You are making an assumption. And so, your errors from here on out will merely be compounded. Wouldn’t it seem more reasonable to you that when God began His creation activity that time started then? Wouldn’t it seem more reasonable to you that He began His creation on the 1st day of the 1st month of the 1st year?





Jun2u: “Even as God instituted the command of no work of any kind is to be done on that day,”

zeke: You have no Scriptural evidence to support this position. You are making another false assumption.





Jun2u: “the punishment of disobedience was so great as to be stoned to death (Ex 31:14-15), an example, the man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath in Numbers 15:35.”

zeke: You have just jumped a gap of about 2 ½ thousand years. Your reference to Exodus and Numbers is regarding Hebrews who were under the Torah given through Moses, it has nothing to do with Creation Week.




Jun2u: “But now we have the Sunday Sabbath which God changed the day from Saturday to Sunday in Matthew 28:1.”

zeke: I think we’ve come to this point in our discussions before. Mt. 28:1 has not changed the Sabbath of the Torah to Sunday. There is nothing in this Scripture that even remotely alludes to this absurdity you present. Did you wish to return to page 14 of this thread, post #393, and continue our discussion which you never did at that time. I would still like to know who taught you this Mt. 28:1 stuff. It certainly is not Scriptural.

And comparing the dawning of the age of aquarius, a pagan song, with God’s word?? What are you thinking?

I’m not going to critique your post any further, unless you display a willingness to get serious. It will be like flogging a dead horse, and believe me your post is full of death.

zeke25

 

[Jun2u]

Doesnt even say that. What book are you reading

Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it is not there.

Did you know that the words “Sabbaths” and “week” in Mt 28:1 are the same plural word “Sabaton” in the Greek language, and that the word “day” is italicized to mean it was not written in the original manuscripts? Go ahead check me out.

Now you will find Mt 28:1 begins thusly:

“At the end of the Sabbaths”, - MEANS, an era of Sabbaths (Old Testament Seventh Day Sabbaths) has come to an end.

“As it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths”, - Means, a dawning (emergence) of a new era of Sabbaths (New Testament Sabbaths) has begun that Sunday.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Phoneman777]

I have already dealt with those kind of arguments and totally disproven them, and all you're doing now is just shrugging them off and continuing to spit out strawmen. Nowhere does scripture indicate that everything in the law of Moses except for the 10 commandments was nailed to the cross. And nowhere does it indicate that we are now free to indulge in sin. Not only are you using false arguments, you are also disobeying scripture by adding to it, which NO ONE should ever do.

So why don't you, for once, make an honest effort to deal with the questions I posed to you?


Well if you can point out how the "victory" comes from anything else than faith in Jesus Christ, who "justifies the wicked" rather than those who think in their feeble minds that they are righteous because they pretend that they keep the 10 commandments, then let me know.

But in the meantime, I am still waiting for you to answer my questions.

So once again, what's the problem?

The problem is that you've so deluded yourself that you cannot see what any fool can see: that the ceremonial Law of Moses was abolished but the Ten Commandments will stand for all eternity. This is what a thinking, rational man would call a "distinction" and I thank God that heaven will be a place where reasonable, rational, free-willed saints redeemed by Jesus' blood will choose to keep those Ten Commandments without any further harassment by those who like Satan have fought against His law since time immemorial.

 

[zeke25]

Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it is not there.

Did you know that the words “Sabbaths” and “week” in Mt 28:1 are the same plural word “Sabaton” in the Greek language, and that the word “day” is italicized to mean it was not written in the original manuscripts? Go ahead check me out.

Now you will find Mt 28:1 begins thusly:

“At the end of the Sabbaths”, - MEANS, an era of Sabbaths (Old Testament Seventh Day Sabbaths) has come to an end.

“As it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths”, - Means, a dawning (emergence) of a new era of Sabbaths (New Testament Sabbaths) has begun that Sunday.

To God Be The Glory

Jun2u said: Now you will find Mt 28:1 begins thusly:

“At the end of the Sabbaths”, - MEANS, an era of Sabbaths (Old Testament Seventh Day Sabbaths) has come to an end.

“As it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths”, - Means, a dawning (emergence) of a new era of Sabbaths (New Testament Sabbaths) has begun that Sunday.

Zeke25 replies:

You have no Scriptural support for your theory from outerspace. How many sabbaths had just passed, in the last two days, prior to Mt. 28:1 stating “At the end of the Sabbaths”? Two had just passed, therefore it was after the sabbaths.

“As it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths”. Do you know how many sabbaths are being spoken of in this phrase? Seven. Do you know what those 7 sabbaths are? Here is the Scripture for this: Leviticus 23:15 KJV, "And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete.”

Where are your Scriptures?

Zeke25

 

[zeke25]

The problem is that you've so deluded yourself that you cannot see what any fool can see: that the ceremonial Law of Moses was abolished but the Ten Commandments will stand for all eternity. This is what a thinking, rational man would call a "distinction" and I thank God that heaven will be a place where reasonable, rational, free-willed saints redeemed by Jesus' blood will choose to keep those Ten Commandments without any further harassment by those who like Satan have fought against His law since time immemorial.

Phonyman,

You are the only one here "harassing" (your false accusation) anyone. Continuously blowing your horn and attacking the Body of Christ.

And you're the only one who is "deluded" (your word). You claim to keep the sabbath and yet you don't even know when the sabbath is. You hypocritically use the RCC corrupted calendar, the same organization that your organization constantly derides as satanic, and base your sabbath observance on that. Why would anyone want to associate with a deluded organization like that, much less defend it? Why would anyone listen to a liar and a hypocrite like yourself? Only fools would.

BTW, this thread is about sabbath keeping, not your inane ideas about ceremonial laws versus whatever.

If you want to gain any respect, then you're going to have to stop attacking the Body of Christ, engage in two-way conversations, have Scriptural support for your wild and unsupportable doctrines, and explain why you do not keep the sabbath since it is so important to you.

Romans 10:1-4
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Phonyman,

You are the only one here "harassing" (your false accusation) anyone. Continuously blowing your horn and attacking the Body of Christ.

And you're the only one who is "deluded" (your word). You claim to keep the sabbath and yet you don't even know when the sabbath is. You hypocritically use the RCC corrupted calendar, the same organization that your organization constantly derides as satanic, and base your sabbath observance on that. Why would anyone want to associate with a deluded organization like that, much less defend it? Why would anyone listen to a liar and a hypocrite like yourself? Only fools would.

BTW, this thread is about sabbath keeping, not your inane ideas about ceremonial laws versus whatever.

If you want to gain any respect, then you're going to have to stop attacking the Body of Christ, engage in two-way conversations, have Scriptural support for your wild and unsupportable doctrines, and explain why you do not keep the sabbath since it is so important to you.

Romans 10:1-4
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Zeke25

Zekoward, I've already shown you:

1. Jews have been keeping the same Sabbath I keep for thousands of years.
2. The Naval Observatory has confirmed beyond a doubt that the weekly cycle of seven days has not changed.
3. In over 100 languages, the word for the seventh day of the week is translated "Sabbath".

So, you see that there is no doubt which day is the seventh day Sabbath, but only whether those who claim to love Jesus but refuse to obey Him really love Jesus at all. That is why Revelation 22:14 KJV says, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have a right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city."

Those who refuse to obey Jesus' commandments will not enter:
"Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but they that do the will of My Father which is in heaven."
"I delight to do Thy will, O my God; yea, Thy law is within my heart."

 

[zeke25]

Zekoward, I've already shown you:

1. Jews have been keeping the same Sabbath I keep for thousands of years.
2. The Naval Observatory has confirmed beyond a doubt that the weekly cycle of seven days has not changed.
3. In over 100 languages, the word for the seventh day of the week is translated "Sabbath".

So, you see that there is no doubt which day is the seventh day Sabbath, but only whether those who claim to love Jesus but refuse to obey Him really love Jesus at all. That is why Revelation 22:14 KJV says, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have a right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city."

Those who refuse to obey Jesus' commandments will not enter:
"Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but they that do the will of My Father which is in heaven."
"I delight to do Thy will, O my God; yea, Thy law is within my heart."

Phonyman,

More lies from you. You have never shown that the Jews have been keeping the same sabbath for thousands of years. And they have not been doing so. But you do not want the Scriptures that show it, because you ignore the Scriptures. The Hebrews have been keeping their sabbath at the end of every perfect week, beginning at sunrise until the following sunrise. It was only Rabbinic Judaism that changed this circa the 3rd century. Show me even one Scripture that says the Hebrews kept a sundown to sundown sabbath.

The Naval Observatory hasn’t confirmed your sabbath at all. Besides, even if they have calculated data using seven day cycles, that doesn’t make it correct. There is no way there is a seven day cycle from one new moon to the next. Twenty-nine to thirty days is not divisible by 7. You keep exposing yourself for ridicule. Do you love abuse? God organized the months by new moons. Maybe He should have checked in with the Naval Observatory first, ya think?

I don’t care how 1000 languages translate sabbath, the Bible doesn’t translate the seven day as sabbath. Let every man be a liar, but God be true. Besides, what type of week are you taking about? Are you talking about a 7 day week, or a perfect week? Without the knowledge of what a perfect week is, you will never know anything about the sabbath day. Would you like to know? No, I didn’t think so.

Leviticus 23:15 TIB, "And you shall number to you from the next day after the sabbath, from the day you bring in the sheaf of the wave offering; they shall be seven perfect sabbaths[.]”

There’s that troublesome phrase “perfect sabbaths”.

What commandment are you obeying, that you boast so much all the time? The Bible says that you cannot keep any. It’s has plain as the nose on your face that you can’t keep the sabbath, because you can’t even find it.


zeke25

 

[heretoeternity]

Zeke...the seventh day of the week is still the seventh day of the week as God created it in Genesis 2, when He rested, blessed and sanctified this day, as a special Holy day...this is whether you like it or agree with it or not it is a fact....now please tell me in the Bible where God actually commanded, blessed and sanctified sunday or any other day.

You should remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin!

 

[zeke25]

Zeke...the seventh day of the week is still the seventh day of the week as God created it in Genesis 2, when He rested, blessed and sanctified this day, as a special Holy day...this is whether you like it or agree with it or not it is a fact....now please tell me in the Bible where God actually commanded, blessed and sanctified sunday or any other day.

You should remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin!

heretoeternity,
Show me a Scripture that says the 7th day of Creation Week fell into the Saturday slot. You will not find it.
Show me a Scripture that says the 7th day of Creation Week was a sabbath. You will not find it.

Simple fact is, I can show you from the Scriptures that the 7th day of Creation Week fell into the Friday slot. But you will not have the patience nor the willing heart to learn it from the Scriptures. Let me know if I'm wrong.

Go back to post 497 in this thread. It will give you a glimpse of more information on this subject.

BTW, why are you reminding me about Sunday? Obviously you are not following the posts here. What makes you think I feel that Sunday is a special day? Get out of your box.

Zeke25

 

[UppsalaDragby]

The problem is that you've so deluded yourself that you cannot see what any fool can see: that the ceremonial Law of Moses was abolished but the Ten Commandments will stand for all eternity.

Phoneman, please don't try to ignore my points by hiding behind childish rhetoric, ad-hominem attacks and strawmen. There is nothing in scripture that indicates that there is any such thing as the "ceremonial Law of Moses". As I have pointed out time and time again, you are adding to scripture something that isn't there. Theories belong to mankind, the truth belongs to God. So you can CALL me deluded all you want and try to aviod the issues, but what scripture says is this:

"Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." (Proverbs 30:6)

Ignoring the issues does not make them go away. What you need to do is make an effort to show yourself as someone accountable for what he teaches, and who has honest, sincere answers to the questions that anyone poses to him. Why are you unable to do so? I am not demanding anything of you that is unreasonable! If I am then point it out explicitly and explain why you think so.

This is what a thinking, rational man would call a "distinction" and I thank God that heaven will be a place where reasonable, rational, free-willed saints redeemed by Jesus' blood will choose to keep those Ten Commandments without any further harassment by those who like Satan have fought against His law since time immemorial.

You can call your theology a "reasonable, rational distinction" as much as you want. But unless it completely harmonizes with scripture then it is nothing more than a man-made distinction. Scripture makes a distinction that is NOT man-made - the distinction between the old and the new covenants.

So why don't you, instead of simply claiming that I am unreasonable and irrational, go a step further and prove it by answering my questions.

Again, What's the problem?

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman, please don't try to ignore my points by hiding behind childish rhetoric and strawmen arguments. There is nothing in scripture that indicates that there is any such thing as the "ceremonial Law of Moses". As I have pointed out time and time again, you are adding to scripture something that isn't there. Theories belong to mankind, the truth belongs to God. So you can CALL me deluded all you want and try to aviod the issues, but what scripture says is this:

"Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." (Proverbs 30:6)

Ignoring the issues does not make them go away. What you need to do is make an effort to show yourself as someone accountable for what he teaches, and who has honest, sincere answers to the questions that anyone poses to him. Why are you unable to do so? I am not demanding anything of you that is unreasonable! If I am then point it out explicitly and explain why you think so.


You can call your theology a "reasonable, rational distinction" as much as you want. But unless it completely harmonizes with scripture then it is nothing more than a man-made distinction. Scripture makes a distinction that is NOT man-made - the distinction between the old and the new covenants.

So why don't you, instead of simply claiming that I am unreasonable and irrational, go a step further and prove it by answering my questions.

Again, What's the problem?

1) We can agree that the ceremonial laws of Passover and circumcision have never nor do now apply to the Christian.

2) We can also agree that Christians are not free to disregard "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" and "thou shalt not commit adultery".

So, it seems that you are using the Bible to build a case that we are free to forget the only commandment that begins with the word "Remember". No matter how eloquent you believe your OT and NT based argument to be, if you just stop and think about this for a second, don't you see how utterly inconsistent your position is?

 

[Phoneman777]

Phonyman,

More lies from you. You have never shown that the Jews have been keeping the same sabbath for thousands of years. And they have not been doing so. But you do not want the Scriptures that show it, because you ignore the Scriptures. The Hebrews have been keeping their sabbath at the end of every perfect week, beginning at sunrise until the following sunrise. It was only Rabbinic Judaism that changed this circa the 3rd century. Show me even one Scripture that says the Hebrews kept a sundown to sundown sabbath.


The Naval Observatory hasn’t confirmed your sabbath at all. Besides, even if they have calculated data using seven day cycles, that doesn’t make it correct. There is no way there is a seven day cycle from one new moon to the next. Twenty-nine to thirty days is not divisible by 7. You keep exposing yourself for ridicule. Do you love abuse? God organized the months by new moons. Maybe He should have checked in with the Naval Observatory first, ya think?

I don’t care how 1000 languages translate sabbath, the Bible doesn’t translate the seven day as sabbath. Let every man be a liar, but God be true. Besides, what type of week are you taking about? Are you talking about a 7 day week, or a perfect week? Without the knowledge of what a perfect week is, you will never know anything about the sabbath day. Would you like to know? No, I didn’t think so.

Leviticus 23:15 TIB, "And you shall number to you from the next day after the sabbath, from the day you bring in the sheaf of the wave offering; they shall be seven perfect sabbaths[.]”

There’s that troublesome phrase “perfect sabbaths”.

What commandment are you obeying, that you boast so much all the time? The Bible says that you cannot keep any. It’s has plain as the nose on your face that you can’t keep the sabbath, because you can’t even find it.


zeke25

Zekoward, I'll leave the issue of your cowardice briefly in order to ask that you clarify this for me:

Is it your conclusion that when the first day of a new Israelite month occurred with the appearance of the New Moon, the day of the week defaulted from whatever day of the week it happened to be the previous day (which would have been the last day of the previous month) to the first day of the week?

For instance, are you saying that the following is what could have been expected to take place?

Month/Day Day of the Week
Nisan 26 6th day
Nisan 27 SABBATH
Nisan 28 1st day
Nisan 29 2nd day
Nisan 30 3rd day

(New Moon appearance)

Iyar 01 1st day
Iyar 02 2nd day

If this is so, then what Scripture evidence do you have for the day of the week defaulting to coincide with the first day of the month?

 

[zeke25]

Zekoward, I'll leave the issue of your cowardice briefly in order to ask that you clarify this for me:

Is it your conclusion that when the first day of a new Israelite month occurred with the appearance of the New Moon, the day of the week defaulted from whatever day of the week it happened to be the previous day (which would have been the last day of the previous month) to the first day of the week?

For instance, are you saying that the following is what could have been expected to take place?

Month/Day Day of the Week
Nisan 26 6th day
Nisan 27 SABBATH
Nisan 28 1st day
Nisan 29 2nd day
Nisan 30 3rd day

(New Moon appearance)

Iyar %2

 

[Axehead]

Zeke. Adam was correct, Cain was in error. One right, one wrong. One was obedient to God, the other made up his own theory. It was the one who made up his own theory that was the aggressor. It is you who is the aggressor in this thread. Calling those who choose to obey God's commandments liars, followers of Satan etc etc. But no complaints form me on that score. They called my Boss that too, so what is that to me? I am withdrawing now from this thread before you dig yourself into a deeper pit through your calling evil good and good evil. It seems I am doing nothing but provoking you to further abuse. Bye, and may God reveal Himself to you and His truth.

Just got back from 10 days in Brazil. While visiting a friend's house church which is networked with house churches in 13 cities, it was nice to find out that they understand the scriptures as saying that Jesus Christ is our Sabbath Rest. Really cool what God is doing there.

 

[zeke25]

Just got back from 10 days in Brazil. While visiting a friend's house church which is networked with house churches in 13 cities, it was nice to find out that they understand the scriptures as saying that Jesus Christ is our Sabbath Rest. Really cool what God is doing there.

Sounds very encouraging. Praise God.

 

[zeke25]

Zekoward, I'll leave the issue of your cowardice briefly in order to ask that you clarify this for me:

Is it your conclusion that when the first day of a new Israelite month occurred with the appearance of the New Moon, the day of the week defaulted from whatever day of the week it happened to be the previous day (which would have been the last day of the previous month) to the first day of the week?

For instance, are you saying that the following is what could have been expected to take place?

Month/Day Day of the Week
Nisan 26 6th day
Nisan 27 SABBATH
Nisan 28 1st day
Nisan 29 2nd day
Nisan 30 3rd day

(New Moon appearance)

Iyar 01 1st day
Iyar 02 2nd day

If this is so, then what Scripture evidence do you have for the day of the week defaulting to coincide with the first day of the month?

Phoneman,

Last night I posted a lengthy, sincere, and informative response to your post #534.

In the middle of the night, the LORD reminded me that you were an unrepentant blasphemer. In a earlier post in this thread you mocked the grace of God thereby mocking His sacrifice on the tree at Calvary for mankind and His shed Blood.

I got up and looked at the thread again. My lengthy post was missing.


I’m not the person you need to be talking to. Fear God and repent. Hebrews 10:29-31 KJV, “29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[UppsalaDragby]

1) We can agree that the ceremonial laws of Passover and circumcision have never nor do now apply to the Christian.

2) We can also agree that Christians are not free to disregard "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" and "thou shalt not commit adultery".

So, it seems that you are using the Bible to build a case that we are free to forget the only commandment that begins with the word "Remember".

All you are doing here is adhering to faulty logic in order to ignore my points. We are not under ANY of the 10 commandments. Why? Because 1) they don't stop anyone from sinning, and 2) we are under a far superior law which belongs to a far superior covenant. So despite your attempts to suggest that I am trying to filter out one of the 10, which I am not, you fail to support your claim altogether.

What we are to "agree on" is not what you say but on what scripture teaches us. And what scripture teaches us is that we are no longer under the Old Covenant.

Right???

It also teaches us that the 10 commandments were part of that covenant, just as much as as everything written in the Book of Moses. Now if you don't "agree" with that then show me scriptural evidence that it is false. But you will have to explain why scripture explicitly calls the 10 commandments the "covenant" (Ex 34:28, Deut 4:13).

That is the same covenant that scripture calls "obsolete"!!!

Nowhere does scripture indicate that a covenant can be split up in pieces! Why are you insisting that it has?? You are being an author of confusion by making such claims. We are under a different covenant altogether. Now read the following scriptures and agree with me that it is God who makes these claims, rather than a denomination of human beings who refuse to believe in what the Gospel says:

1) By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. (Heb 8:13)

Do you agree or do you not agree that the old covenant is obsolete?

2) 2 Cor 3:3 teaches us that what was written on the hearts of the saints was the result of his ministry and NOT that which was written on the tablets of stone. If they were one and the same then he would have said so, wouldn't he? But you just refuse to see it that way! Paul preached the Gospel, not a revamping of the 10 commandments. You don't find that in scripture, so don't try to put it there!

3) Scripture declares that we are no longer under the supervision of the law (Gal 3:25), that if we are led by the Spirit then we are no longer under the law (Gal 5:18), that we have been set free from the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2) and so on..

So where do ANY of those verses in dicate that the "law" that was being referred to was confined to "ceremonial" laws?

It's not there, is it?

Now you can pretend that Jesus Christ shed his blood and was tortured and crucified simply to save the world from ceremonies, but any "rational and reasonable" person would realize that that is NOT what the gospel of Chist is all about.

No matter how eloquent you believe your OT and NT based argument to be, if you just stop and think about this for a second, don't you see how utterly inconsistent your position is?

No, I don't. Where exactly is the inconsistency?? You haven't pointed out any that are based on anything I have said. All you are doing is inventing strawmen and claiming that that is inconsistent. However, my position is NOT that we are to keep 9 out of 10 comamndments. My position is that we are under a completely new covenant altogether. So there is no "inconsistency" on my part.

So let's all see if you can answer my questions this time!

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman,

Last night I posted a lengthy, sincere, and informative response to your post #534.

In the middle of the night, the LORD reminded me that you were an unrepentant blasphemer. In a earlier post in this thread you mocked the grace of God thereby mocking His sacrifice on the tree at Calvary for mankind and His shed Blood.

I got up and looked at the thread again. My lengthy post was missing.


I’m not the person you need to be talking to. Fear God and repent. Hebrews 10:29-31 KJV, “29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

Zeke, you have turned the discussion away from the Sabbath to Salvation, so I'll answer you this way: No amount of Sabbath keeping, or any other rendered obedience to the Ten Commandments can earn us anything toward Savation, so your accusation that doers of the Ten Commandments are mocking God is baseless. Now, if you would like to discuss this issue, please start another thread, for the issue here is the Sabbath.

The Sabbath has NOT been lost in history, for Satan would never allow his faithful to confuse which day is his Sunday, so since Sunday is so firmly established throughout history, backtrack one day from the devil's Sunday for the Lord's Day..