Sabbath-Keeping

[Barrd]

Why is it so hard for lawyers to understand grace. Did Jesus die for your sins or did He not?? Are you washed and cleansed with His blood or not?? have you put on the righteousness of Christ or not?? Have yoou accepted teh FREEE gift of grace or not, or are you addingto the price already paid. there are monks who whip themselves trying to beat their flesh into submission all the while the devil laughs at them, there are those who tie and even naiil themselves to crosses at easter as if it pleases God, theer are those who live seperate from the world trying to LIVE yet have no life and never finding Jesus all trying to please God by their works.

You will sin untill the day you die or that moment' in teh twinkling of an eye", and all the beating yourself up over it does nothing to add to your salvation, all the LAW does is condemn you and it comes acroos in all your posts, for if you have put on the righteousnes of Christ, If you have accepted His free gift of grace, and IF you are walking in the Spirit than there is no condmenation for Christ has paid teh price ONCE and IN FULL. God is not like men He completes what he sets out to do.

If you knew the love of God and His patients and mercy you wouldnt be where you are.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

in all His Love

If you are truly "walking in the Spirit", then is the Spirit leading you to sin against God? Or does the Spirit lead you into righteousness?
Will a person who is truly being led by the Spirit of God ever even consider:
Worshiping other gods?
Making and/or worshiping idols?
Using God's Holy Name as a curse?
Being abusive toward his/her parents?
Do I even need to ask if someone being led by the Holy Spirit of God would kill?
Or commit adultery?
Or steal?
Or tell nasty lies about someone?
Would someone who is truly being led by the Holy Spirit of God be content with what he or she has, and be happy for others to have what they have? Or would they be jealous because someone else seems to have more than them?

Someone who would deliberately do any of these things is not, at least for that moment, being led by the Spirit. But if such a one, who has slipped and allowed him/herself to do any of these things...indulge in gossip, for instance, or allow himself a moment of jealousy over his friend's new car, or lusted after someone other than their own wife or husband, committing, as Jesus said, adultery within their heart...if someone, I say, who is truly being led by the Holy Spirit of God should find himself in such a sin, then that one is going to get on his or her knees, and repent.

But what, I have been asked, if that person should die that very night, without having repented of that sin? Won't they go to heaven anyway, based on this or that verse?
Not necessarily. Much would depend on how deep his rebellion had gone, and whether or not his heart was still turned toward God.
Well, then doesn't that make God a liar?
No, not at all. There are plenty of verses in that Bible, yes, and in the New Testament, that do tell us that we must keep the Lord's commands. Jesus isn't mincing words when He speaks of hell. It is a very real place.
Yes, He died to pay for our sins, past, present, and future...but He didn't suffer as He did in order to give you a free ticket to sin all you want as long as you believe in Him. If you have any respect for Him and for His sacrifice at all, it wouldn't even occur to you to use it in such a way.

Yes, when we accept Jesus Christ into our lives as our Savior, we are adopted into the family of God. We are sons and daughters of the Living God...what a thrilling concept! He is our Father...not some far distant deity just waiting to hit us with a lightning bolt, but a loving and merciful Father. We don't need to have a priest or a prophet to speak to God for us....we can climb up on Dad's lap ourselves, and talk things over with Him. He is always ready to listen to His children. Like any loving parent, He is happy when His children show their love for Him.
But let's not forget that He will also chasten the children that He loves. He will not hesitate to use the rod of discipline on the seat of our understanding, should we make that necessary.

Can a child of God so rebel as to lose his salvation? Honestly, do we really want to push it that far? If we are being led by the Spirit of God to repent, and we refuse...will the Spirit eventually give up and abandon us?
I am not prepared to answer that. I do know the Bible speaks of some who have had their consciences seared with a hot iron:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

These evidently once had faith, but they departed from it. This, for me at least, is warning enough. It seems that we must be careful what spirit we listen to...because these who departed from the faith were listening to "seducing spirits"...spirits who told them things that they wanted to hear. They gave heed to "doctrines of devils".
Now, do you think that they knew they were listening to "seducing spirits"? Or were they enticed? Remember that Satan has a cute little trick where he can appear as an angel of light...and his minions into "ministers of righteousness"...
But God was careful to warn us, through the mouth of His servant, Peter, that we have a vicious enemy, seeking to devour us:

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Were they aware that these doctrines were "doctrines of devils"?

Yes, all of those "Blessed Assurance" verses are in there, just as our friend ATP keeps telling us.
But there's a bit more to it than just those verses, as wonderful as they are....

 

[ATP]

Phil 3:8-11 NIV What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

 

[ATP]

Col 1:3-5 NIV We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints--5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel

 

[mjrhealth]

If you are truly "walking in the Spirit", then is the Spirit leading you to sin against God? Or does the Spirit lead you into righteousness?
Will a person who is truly being led by the Spirit of God ever even consider:
Worshiping other gods?
Making and/or worshiping idols?
Using God's Holy Name as a curse?
Being abusive toward his/her parents?
Do I even need to ask if someone being led by the Holy Spirit of God would kill?
Or commit adultery?
Or steal?
Or tell nasty lies about someone?
Would someone who is truly being led by the Holy Spirit of God be content with what he or she has, and be happy for others to have what they have? Or would they be jealous because someone else seems to have more than them?

And that is what Love does and why those who are in Christ do not need the law.

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

In all His Love

 

[Barrd]

And that is what Love does and why those who are in Christ do not need the law.

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

In all His Love

You didn't read the rest of that post, my friend.

Do you think that those who are truly being led of the Holy Spirit of God cannot sin?
Not so.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us

Someone who would deliberately do any of these things is not, at least for that moment, being led by the Spirit. But if such a one, who has slipped and allowed him/herself to do any of these things...indulge in gossip, for instance, or allow himself a moment of jealousy over his friend's new car, or lusted after someone other than their own wife or husband, committing, as Jesus said, adultery within their heart...if someone, I say, who is truly being led by the Holy Spirit of God should find himself in such a sin, then that one is going to get on his or her knees, and repent.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I didn't write those verses. God gave us these verses through the mouth of His Beloved Disciple, John.
Just like all of those wonderful "Blessed Assurance" verses our friend ATP keeps posting, and God bless him, these verses are also a part of our Gospel Truth.
We must consider ALL of what God has given us in His Word...not just pick and choose what we like and leave the rest.

I can imagine how it must frustrate God when we do that...

 

[ATP]

You didn't read the rest of that post, my friend.

Do you think that those who are truly being led of the Holy Spirit of God cannot sin?
Not so.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us

Someone who would deliberately do any of these things is not, at least for that moment, being led by the Spirit. But if such a one, who has slipped and allowed him/herself to do any of these things...indulge in gossip, for instance, or allow himself a moment of jealousy over his friend's new car, or lusted after someone other than their own wife or husband, committing, as Jesus said, adultery within their heart...if someone, I say, who is truly being led by the Holy Spirit of God should find himself in such a sin, then that one is going to get on his or her knees, and repent.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I didn't write those verses. God gave us these verses through the mouth of His Beloved Disciple, John.
Just like all of those wonderful "Blessed Assurance" verses our friend ATP keeps posting, and God bless him, these verses are also a part of our Gospel Truth.
We must consider ALL of what God has given us in His Word...not just pick and choose what we like and leave the rest.

I can imagine how it must frustrate God when we do that...

But nowhere in scripture does it say God throws believers into the lake of fire. That is where your doctrine is flawed.

 

[mjrhealth]

Do you think that those who are truly being led of the Holy Spirit of God cannot sin?
Not so.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us

Absolutley agree, but you miss the whole point of grace. Its like a covering letter that sits in court,so every time the accuser comes to accuse you of sin, teh Judge simply says "they are covered". He died for all your sins, every one from before you came to Him till the day you die.

That is why there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ and walk after the spirit",

it is no sin to be human which is why grace was given.

In all His Love

 

[ATP]

Heb 6:16-19 NIV Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,

 

[Barrd]

It is all very well to trust in those "Blessed Assurance" verses. I do, myself.
But I am also aware that it is possible for a child of God, who has put his faith in the risen Christ, to sin so as to lose his or her salvation.
I am aware of this because the Bible gives examples of this very thing happening:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

Notice that when Paul wrote these words, this had not happened yet. The Spirit spoke to him expressly...he knew this would happen in the future because the Holy Spirit of God had given him this knowledge.
This is something that would happen "in the latter times". Our time? Quite possibly.
Some are going to depart from the faith...notice, Jesus is not leaving them. He promised that He would not do that. Rather they shall depart from the faith...iow, they are the ones who leave Him.

"Oh, but Barrd, why would anyone do such a foolish thing?"

Because, as it says, they were listening to "seducing spirits". They were giving heed to "doctrines of devils".
Somehow, I just can't make myself believe that they were purposely leaving the Holy Spirit for these "seducing spirits". It makes more sense that these "seducing spirits" present themselves as The Holy Spirit of God. But what they are whispering in those itching ears is not the truth. They are promoting "doctrines of devils".

How, then, are false doctrines made?
It isn't that difficult to figure out. It is done by taking certain verses out of the context of the Bible, putting one's own spin on these verses, and then relying heavily on your audience to block out anything that they do not want to hear. It isn't hard to do at all....anyone can do it.

There is only one way to know for sure what God has said about a certain subject...and it is not to trust your emotions, because, as we know, the human heart is deceitful above all things. No, we must find the truth in God's Holy Word...and that can only be done by taking ALL of it, not just a list of pretty verses that seem to tell us what we long to hear.

 

[ATP]

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

 

[mjrhealth]

There is only one way to know for sure what God has said about a certain subject...and it is not to trust your emotions, because, as we know, the human heart is deceitful above all things. No, we must find the truth in God's Holy Word...and that can only be done by taking ALL of it, not just a list of pretty verses that seem to tell us what we long to hear.

Yes,

believe in Him, trust in him and have Faith in Him

How many times have I come beofre Christ and He has said to me" why are you beating yourself up over these things",? Because jesus I know i can do btter. But I have stopped beating myself up it does no one any good and shows a lack of faith.

You cannot perfect yourself, that is done when you put on the "righteousness" of Christ which is given to you when you come to Him, and that is why we can go to heaven and visit God even now.

in all His Love

 

[Barrd]

But nowhere in scripture does it say God throws believers into the lake of fire. That is where your doctrine is flawed.

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

So, evidently, it was possible to be blotted out of the Book of Life, if one were to sin against God.
Yes, I know this is Old Testament, and you will tell me that we are under a "New Covenant"...and, of course, you will be quite right.
But, as we have seen, it is possible even today to "depart from the faith". All it takes is to give heed to "seducing spirits" and "doctrines of devils".

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

I think it's safe to say that those who do overcome will have their names written in the Book of Life. However, those who do not could find that their name isn't in there. They have been blotted out on account of their sin.
And we know what happens to those whose names are not in there, don't we?

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to bet my eternity on a handful of verses taken out of the contest of the rest of the Bible.
Nor am I about to encourage anyone else to do so, either...that, in itself, would be a sin.

 

[Barrd]

Yes,

believe in Him, trust in him and have Faith in Him

How many times have I come beofre Christ and He has said to me" why are you beating yourself up over these things",? Because jesus I know i can do btter. But I have stopped beating myself up it does no one any good and shows a lack of faith.

You cannot perfect yourself, that is done when you put on the "righteousness" of Christ which is given to you when you come to Him, and that is why we can go to heaven and visit God even now.

in all His Love

You do know that there are lying spirits out there that will whisper in your ears, right?
If this voice is telling you things that are contrary to what the Bible teaches, then it's a pretty good bet that the voice you are hearing is not Jesus Christ.

OTH, once you have confessed and repented, there is no point in continuing to "beat yourself up".

 

[ATP]

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

So, evidently, it was possible to be blotted out of the Book of Life, if one were to sin against God.
Yes, I know this is Old Testament, and you will tell me that we are under a "New Covenant"...and, of course, you will be quite right.
But, as we have seen, it is possible even today to "depart from the faith". All it takes is to give heed to "seducing spirits" and "doctrines of devils".

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

I think it's safe to say that those who do overcome will have their names written in the Book of Life. However, those who do not could find that their name isn't in there. They have been blotted out on account of their sin.
And we know what happens to those whose names are not in there, don't we?

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to bet my eternity on a handful of verses taken out of the contest of the rest of the Bible.
Nor am I about to encourage anyone else to do so, either...that, in itself, would be a sin.

There was no seal of God in Exodus Barrd, because the OT was before resurrection. Rev 3:5 mentions the word "overcometh". Remember what scripture says about the one that overcomes? We overcome by believing in the Son of God........

John 16:33 NIV "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Acts 20:28 NIV Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Barrd]

There was no seal of God in Exodus Barrd, because the OT was before resurrection. Rev 3:5 mentions the word "overcometh". Remember what scripture says about the one that overcomes? We overcome by believing in the Son of God........

John 16:33 NIV "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Acts 20:28 NIV Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Did I not say that you would come back with "But Barrd, that's the Old Testament."
And, of course, you did exactly as I thought you would do. Oh, my...am I a "prophet"? LOL...I don't think so...

But seriously, ATP, before you put too much faith in this seal, let's have a peek at what one of Christ's Own Disciples has to tell us:

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Not a very pretty picture, is it?
What makes you think that God wants dogs licking their own vomit, or filthy pigs wallowing in the mire in His beautiful mansion? Would you have such in your house?

 

[mjrhealth]

You do know that there are lying spirits out there that will whisper in your ears, right?
If this voice is telling you things that are contrary to what the Bible teaches, then it's a pretty good bet that the voice you are hearing is not Jesus Chris

Yes that is why this topic is so long, but Jesus will have you going back to the beginning over and over till you get it.

And again the wheel goes round.

 

[ATP]

Did I not say that you would come back with "But Barrd, that's the Old Testament."
And, of course, you did exactly as I thought you would do. Oh, my...am I a "prophet"? LOL...I don't think so...

But seriously, ATP, before you put too much faith in this seal, let's have a peek at what one of Christ's Own Disciples has to tell us:

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Not a very pretty picture, is it?
What makes you think that God wants dogs licking their own vomit, or filthy pigs wallowing in the mire in His beautiful mansion? Would you have such in your house?

Well, I do put faith in the seal. The seal represents what Jesus died for Barrd.

2 Peter 2:20 NIV - This passage is about false teachers that knew Jesus but still walked away from salvation, similar to Rom 1:18-32 NIV. Even the title of this section is called "False Teachers and Their Destruction".

 

[Barrd]

Oh, ATP...what is it going to take to get through to you?

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

That is a great verse, ATP. A beautiful verse, with a thrilling promise. I love this verse, and I have faith in this verse, just as you have.

But you keep ignoring other verses that I post for you.
Like these verses:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

Obviously, these people are not going to overcome anything. They had faith, just the same as you and I have faith...but they departed from it.

Do you think they are still "sealed"? Are their names still written in the Lamb's Book of Life?

 

[Barrd]

Yes that is why this topic is so long, but Jesus will have you going back to the beginning over and over till you get it.

And again the wheel goes round.

Do you think you actually have a ghost of a chance of ever convincing me that this damnable doctrine...that a person can deliberately sin against the Holy God, and God will wink at it...is actually truth?
Never gonna happen, my friend.
You may travel merrily on down that broad road with the rest of the crowd.
I'm not going that way, sorry...

 

[ATP]

But you keep ignoring other verses that I post for you.
Like these verses:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

Obviously, these people are not going to overcome anything. They had faith, just the same as you and I have faith...but they departed from it.

Do you think they are still "sealed"? Are their names still written in the Lamb's Book of Life?

Apostasy is all over this kiddo. Apostates are not born again christians. They are polar opposite in their faith...http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-1.htm

1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in latter times some shall apostatise from the faith, giving their mind to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons

Jesus died for all sins Barrd...Heb 8:12 NIV For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."