Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.
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Funny...my Bible doesn't have subtitles. Do you think Peter wrote that title in your Bible, then, ATP?ATP said:
But that's a silly argument, isn't it?
Tell me this...why are we told to "put on the whole armor of God"?
ph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Is it not because we have a vicious enemy?
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour
Subtitles or no, it makes no sense for God to warn us this way, if there were not a very real threat.
Apostasy. Okay.ATP said:
Let's break it down.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,
That would be the Holy Spirit of God, yes?
that in the latter times
Latter times...our time, perhaps?
some shall depart from the faith,
They had faith once, otherwise they could not "depart from the faith".
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Not good, not good! How would we recognize a "seducing spirit" if we should encounter one? How would we know if a doctrine being taught is a "doctrine of devils"? A "seducing spirit" is going to whisper in your itching ears words that make you feel good. Such as "thou shalt not surely die"... A "doctrine of devils" would be any doctrine that depends on removing a handful of verses from the context of the Bible and ignoring any verses that seem to contradict this unholy doctrine. It's quite easy to do.
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy;
Again, not good. Perhaps we need to quit listening to men, and do like those noble Bereans of so long ago.
having their conscience seared with a hot iron
BEFORE this regrettable thing happens to us!!!!!
Heb 9:15 NIV For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Heb 9:24-28 NIV For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
It's those "seducing spirits" and "doctrines of devils" that concern me.
I'm not about to encourage anyone to even think that they may deliberately sin, and still expect to go to Heaven.
That would be an open rebellion against Jesus Christ, would it not?
Homosexuals, who say "we were born this way", knowing good and well that God has forbidden such things, still expect to go to heaven, based on verses like these.
I, for one, will not aid them in this folly.
I will not have their blood on my hands...
.
I'm not about to encourage anyone to even think that they may deliberately sin, and still expect to go to Heaven.
That would be an open rebellion against Jesus Christ, would it not?
Homosexuals, who say "we were born this way", knowing good and well that God has forbidden such things, still expect to go to heaven, based on verses like these.
I, for one, will not aid them in this folly.
I will not have their blood on my hands...
.
You continue to ignore verses that I post to you.ATP said:
Why is this?
Is it because these verses do not agree with you?
For instance, you completely ignored this post:
Tell me this...why are we told to "put on the whole armor of God"?
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Is it not because we have a vicious enemy?
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour
Subtitles or no, it makes no sense for God to warn us this way, if there were not a very real threat.
Why would you ignore this post? Is it because your canned verses do not have a real answer?
and here lies your problem, we all sin as you keep saying, it is called "being human". Its this focus on "deliberate sin" that seem to keep you all enslaved to teh law. But than teh bible ageees with you.
1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
How easy we are entangled in teh enemies web.
In all His Love
Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Wow...God repeated this one twice. He must think it's pretty important.
Psa 85:8 I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.
Pro 13:6 Righteousness keepeth him that is upright in the way: but wickedness overthroweth the sinner.
Pro 13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.
Pro 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
Pro 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
This one sounds familiar, doesn't it? I wonder if Peter heard this Proverb from Jesus...
Pro 10:13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.
Pro 26:3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.
Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
That one is for me. And on that note, I believe I shall retire from this conversation... :mellow:
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Wow...God repeated this one twice. He must think it's pretty important.
Psa 85:8 I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.
Pro 13:6 Righteousness keepeth him that is upright in the way: but wickedness overthroweth the sinner.
Pro 13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.
Pro 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
Pro 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
This one sounds familiar, doesn't it? I wonder if Peter heard this Proverb from Jesus...
Pro 10:13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.
Pro 26:3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.
Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
That one is for me. And on that note, I believe I shall retire from this conversation... :mellow:
Phoneman777
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Please notice that the verse indicates that the "gifts and calling" assign ownership to God ("God's gifts and call"). Why is that important?ATP said:
Because that is a description of the offer of His calling and gifts extended to us, which is an irrevocable offer that rests on the table for us to choose if we so desire - and offer that He has promised and will not withdraw.
We can't ignore that in order to make the verse teach that Paul's talking about "irrevocable salvation", which contradicts the other verses of Scripture which teach conditional salvation, like the Unmerciful Servant, those apostates who by choosing to return to sin are unable to be renewed unto repentance, those who escaped the pollution of the world but go back to it and suffer a worse fate than before they were converted, etc.
How easily indeed, poor fella.mjrhealth said:
I've had enough of this foolishness...I've been chasing the wind in this thread, and I know it.
Hopefully, one day, your stubborn eyes will be opened...
But do remember me.
I'm the one who tried, over and over again, to sound the alarm.
Sleep on, complacent one...sleep on...
Phoneman, it's been great talking with you, and God bless you, for your love and your patience.Phoneman777 said:
I'm afraid I've had enough, at least for awhile.
I'm taking a break from this forum for a bit...I'm a bit fed up with all the useless arguing. You are amazing, my friend! You are a jewel in the Lord's crown.
I'll be thinking of you!
Phoneman777
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such kind words! I've enjoyed reading your insightful points as well. I rather enjoy the challenge of debate and especially the revelation about "irrevocable gifts and call" which refers to the offer of salvation, not salvation itself. Minds are hard to change, but I have faith that the Holy Spirit can crack even the toughest nut if that nut is willing.The Barrd said:
You're adding to scripture again. For us to choose if we so desire? It doesn't say that. It says, "they are loved". God loved us first before we loved him. So I ask you again. Where in scripture does it say God throws believers in the lake of fire.Phoneman777 said:
Rom 11:28-29 NIV As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
Phil 1:3-6 NIV I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Heb 12:22-24 NIV But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Heb 13:5 NIV Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”
Phoneman777
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Phoneman777
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No, sir, ATP, I am not adding anything to the Scripture, but untwisting your twists. "They are loved" is the reason why God will not revoke His offer on the table which is a "call" to us that we come to Him and the "gifts" that He holds out to us to receive by faith.ATP said:
OSAS is the idea that dead faith can obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith, ATP. Salvation comes to no one who possesses dead faith, which is everyone who follows OSAS.
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