Sabbath-Keeping

[Axehead]

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

The final verdict was that the Gentiles did not have to keep the law of Moses. They were saved by grace.,

Jesus is our Sabbath rest, now. He fulfilled and went even further than the inferior and onerous 10 commandments. He now gives us the grace to not only keep from physically committing adultery, but to not commit adultery in our heart. And He is now the "better rest" than what a physical day of rest could be. Not an inferior physical rest of which the OT Sabbath was just a type and foreshadow of the superior spiritual rest we now have in Christ, the Lord our Sabbath.



Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (He did not say, "I will give you a day of rest"). If you have Christ's rest, 7x24x365, then why settle for something inferior?
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (This is true rest. Men may have physical rest, but at the same time have no spiritual rest.


Heb_7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb_7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

You can have your day of rest, I will take 7 days of spiritual rest in Christ Jesus my Sabbath.



Axehead

 

[UppsalaDragby]

You still haven't answered my question of "How are we not at liberty to break the Ten Commandments that you claim we are not obligated to keep"?

Oh yes I have, let me quote:

"NO, we are NOT "obligated" to keep the 10 commandments due to the fact that we are not under those commandments. But don't even TRY for a second try to twist this around, which sabbatarians have the habit of doing, to making it seem that I am saying that it is OK to indulge in practices that are directly contrary to them. We have a completely different legal system that takes care of sin in a way than the Mosiac laws were unable to do. So what is so IMPOSSIBLE to ascertain about that?

Someone who is under a certain law is definitely "obligated" to keep it. Otherwise what would the point of having that law be? But just as Abraham, (you know... the one ascribed as being the father of faith, was deemed righteous by God LONG BEFORE the 10 commandments were given), so are we even deemed righteous by God APART from the Mosaic law. Our obligation is to keep a law based on faith - the law of Christ, not a law that scripture declares is NOT based on faith."

That is my answer, just as this is my answer:

NO ONE IS AT "LIBERTY" TO BREAK A COMMANDMENT THAT WAS NEVER GIVEN TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!

NONE of the Patriarchs were under the Mosaic law. Does that mean that they were at "liberty to break" a law that was introduced hundreds of years later? Now I pointed out a LONG time ago that scripture proves that the sabbath law was unknown to the patriarchs. You NEVER responded to that! Why not?

What is your response?

To answer your question:

• We are not obligated to be circumcised, according to Paul. (1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV)
• "All His commandments...stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:8 KJV)
• Therefore, we must conclude that "circumcision" cannot be included among "His commandments".

"Come now, let us reason together."

I am more that willing to reason with you Phoneman! And let me start of by showing how utterly unreasonable your arguments are... one at a time:

1) "We are not obligated to be circumcised, according to Paul. (1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV)"

Well actually we ARE (Rom 2:29).... if we bear in mind that the law was merely a shadow of the realities in Christ!

Not to mention the fact that neither are we obligated to consider "one day more sacred than another".. according to Paul (Romans 14:5).

2) "All His commandments...stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:8 KJV)

What???? Where does Psalms 111:8 say anything about his commandments being confined to the 10 commandments rather than to circumcision??

It says ALL of his commandments, which for some reason you are interpreting as meaning only TEN of them!

This is what the Bible has to say about circucision:

For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old MUST be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner--those who are not your offspring.

So according to scripture, circumcision is to be observed "forever and ever", (or at least as long as there are generations... you take your pick).. But bear in mind, this is EXACTLY what scripture says about sabbath-keeping:

"The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant." (Ex 31:16)

3) "Therefore, we must conclude that "circumcision" cannot be included among "His commandments".

We must conclude? MUST??? What kind of "reasoning" is that? And how does it answer my question?

I thought I was pretty clear, but apparantly I was not.

So let me rephrase it: If circumcision was not Gods commandment, then WHO'S commandment was it?

 

[heretoeternity]

Seems Zeke is still hungup on Ellen White......he seems to think she created the seventh day Sabbath day..lol...Zeke should know by now God created the seventh day of the week as a rest day, He blessed the day and set it aside for Holy purposes (sanctified) this day...He placed it in His law, the Ten commandments as the fourth commandments...it's not that difficult to understand, unless of course you are following a different spirit, other than the Spirit of God.
And Zeke and Upsi should know, a person does not have to belong to SDA or any denomination to follow the law of God, and His seventh day Sabbath commandment...they seem obsessed with SDA and like to compartmentalize everyone, which is typical of those led by a false spirit.

They should remember, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

 

[Axehead]

Obviously, the Lord is not concerned about the different sabbaths in the Old Testament and whether people keep them or not, since He is still filling them with His Spirit and doing miracles through non-Sabbath day keepers.

If the Lord was not pleased with non-Sabbath day keepers, then would He baptize them in the Holy Spirit or work miracles through them? Better to please God than Ellen G. White.

 

[Phoneman777]

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but NOW commandmenth all men everywhere to repent".

 

[Phoneman777]

Oh yes I have, let me quote:

"NO, we are NOT "obligated" to keep the 10 commandments due to the fact that we are not under those commandments. But don't even TRY for a second try to twist this around, which sabbatarians have the habit of doing, to making it seem that I am saying that it is OK to indulge in practices that are directly contrary to them. We have a completely different legal system that takes care of sin in a way than the Mosiac laws were unable to do. So what is so IMPOSSIBLE to ascertain about that?

Someone who is under a certain law is definitely "obligated" to keep it. Otherwise what would the point of having that law be? But just as Abraham, (you know... the one ascribed as being the father of faith, was deemed righteous by God LONG BEFORE the 10 commandments were given), so are we even deemed righteous by God APART from the Mosaic law. Our obligation is to keep a law based on faith - the law of Christ, not a law that scripture declares is NOT based on faith."

That is my answer, just as this is my answer:

NO ONE IS AT "LIBERTY" TO BREAK A COMMANDMENT THAT WAS NEVER GIVEN TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!

NONE of the Patriarchs were under the Mosaic law. Does that mean that they were at "liberty to break" a law that was introduced hundreds of years later? Now I pointed out a LONG time ago that scripture proves that the sabbath law was unknown to the patriarchs. You NEVER responded to that! Why not?

What is your response?


I am more that willing to reason with you Phoneman! And let me start of by showing how utterly unreasonable your arguments are... one at a time:


Well actually we ARE (Rom 2:29).... if we bear in mind that the law was merely a shadow of the realities in Christ!

Not to mention the fact that neither are we obligated to consider "one day more sacred than another".. according to Paul (Romans 14:5).


What???? Where does Psalms 111:8 say anything about his commandments being confined to the 10 commandments rather than to circumcision??

It says ALL of his commandments, which for some reason you are interpreting as meaning only TEN of them!

This is what the Bible has to say about circucision:

For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old MUST be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner--those who are not your offspring.

So according to scripture, circumcision is to be observed "forever and ever", (or at least as long as there are generations... you take your pick).. But bear in mind, this is EXACTLY what scripture says about sabbath-keeping:

"The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant." (Ex 31:16)


We must conclude? MUST??? What kind of "reasoning" is that? And how does it answer my question?

I thought I was pretty clear, but apparantly I was not.

So let me rephrase it: If circumcision was not Gods commandment, then WHO'S commandment was it

Upp, if the Ten Commandments were not for Christians, then why does James say that if we break the 6th or 7th we "become transgressors of the law"??? It seems that your answer to the question "how come we are not at liberty to break the Ten Commandments that you claim we are not obligated to keep" is no answer at all because your conclusion that they were "only given to Israel" is disproved by James' clear statement that you and I become guilty if we don't keep those two commandments.

BTW, you just can't seem to help yourself with your long, drawn out responses, can you? The word of the day is PITHY.

 

[Phoneman777]

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

The final verdict was that the Gentiles did not have to keep the law of Moses. They were saved by grace.,

Jesus is our Sabbath rest, now. He fulfilled and went even further than the inferior and onerous 10 commandments. He now gives us the grace to not only keep from physically committing adultery, but to not commit adultery in our heart. And He is now the "better rest" than what a physical day of rest could be. Not an inferior physical rest of which the OT Sabbath was just a type and foreshadow of the superior spiritual rest we now have in Christ, the Lord our Sabbath.



Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (He did not say, "I will give you a day of rest"). If you have Christ's rest, 7x24x365, then why settle for something inferior?
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (This is true rest. Men may have physical rest, but at the same time have no spiritual rest.


Heb_7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb_7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

You can have your day of rest, I will take 7 days of spiritual rest in Christ Jesus my Sabbath.



Axehead

The "better covenant based on better promises" includes commandment keeping, bro. "A New Covenant will I make...I will write MY LAWS in their minds and on their hearts." Commandment keeping proves He's in your heart and commandment breaking proves He's not. (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)

 

[mjrhealth]

The "better covenant based on better promises" includes commandment keeping, bro. "A New Covenant will I make...I will write MY LAWS in their minds and on their hearts." Commandment keeping proves He's in your heart and commandment breaking proves He's not. (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)

And how many of them did you break today.???

 

[Phoneman777]

And how many of them did you break today.???

None. As soon as I woke up an hour ago, the devil tried to get me to break "Thou shalt not commit adultery" but a quick prayer to my Father was all that was needed because He is "able to keep us from falling and present us faultless". This is my plan for the rest of the day - to resist in the strength of my Savior the fiery darts of Satan.

Sin is always a choice, bro, no matter how strong the temptation, and if we continually refuse the "way of escape" provided to us by Jesus, we only prove that we are among those who "draweth nigh unto Me with their mouths and do honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me." If you disagree, then you'll have to take it up with God, because I'm just repeating what He said.

 

[mjrhealth]

I guess you missed this one than,

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I have no doubt that God will provide a way.

One day I will be perfected, I do not know when that day will be, untill than my Faith is in Jesus.

And that is why I don not worry and am not troubled.

In all His Love

 

[zeke25]

Seems Zeke is still hungup on Ellen White......he seems to think she created the seventh day Sabbath day..lol...Zeke should know by now God created the seventh day of the week as a rest day, He blessed the day and set it aside for Holy purposes (sanctified) this day...He placed it in His law, the Ten commandments as the fourth commandments...it's not that difficult to understand, unless of course you are following a different spirit, other than the Spirit of God.
And Zeke and Upsi should know, a person does not have to belong to SDA or any denomination to follow the law of God, and His seventh day Sabbath commandment...they seem obsessed with SDA and like to compartmentalize everyone, which is typical of those led by a false spirit.

They should remember, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

You have blasphemed the Holy Ghost.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Upp, if the Ten Commandments were not for Christians, then why does James say that if we break the 6th or 7th we "become transgressors of the law"??? It seems that your answer to the question "how come we are not at liberty to break the Ten Commandments that you claim we are not obligated to keep" is no answer at all because your conclusion that they were "only given to Israel" is disproved by James' clear statement that you and I become guilty if we don't keep those two commandments.

I'm pretty sure I already dealt with the Book of James earlier on, but I can't be bothered back-tracking, so let me explain it again. To start with, James never says "if WE (Christians) break the commandments then WE are transgressors of the law". What he actually says is that "whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking ALL of it". WHOEVER, in this case obviously refers to WHOEVER was under the Mosaic Law. It is an epistle written to Jews who became Christians and as such DEALT with the Mosiac law.

And why exactly does he bring up this point? Read the context! Read the preceding verses! Read the ENTIRE book! Throughout the book he speaks about how people are breaking the law of Christ by showing favoritism (verse 2:9), not looking after orphans and widows (1:26), and so on. So what he is actually doing, in the verses you cherry-pick, is giving us an analogy. He points out that just as someone who kept SOME of the commandments in the Mosiac law but IGNORED others were lawbreakers, people in the NEW Covenant, who only keep SOME of the Law of Christ were ALSO lawbreakers if they behaved in the manner he describes in detail throughout his epistle. SDAs are so intent in sifting out verses that they think supports their doctrine that they miss the analogy.

And ironically, in the midst of all this, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that you are willing to keep the 4th commandment (which you most likely are NOT), but break the 9th, and yet have the utter gall to invoke THIS VERSE in the hope that it proves your point - which it doesn't!

BTW, you just can't seem to help yourself with your long, drawn out responses, can you? The word of the day is PITHY.

So I am thorough and answer all the issues you bring up. Pithy, in your case, is just a way of doing the opposite - ignoring anything that disproves your false doctrine.

Why all this moaning and groaning about long responses??? What does it have to do with this discussion? If you can't be bothered reading them, then don't respond.

In the meantime, I will make my responses as long as I think is necessary! So you will just have to put up with it.

And they aren't THAT long! Are they?

I mean, COME ON! If I can be bothered writing them, then surely you can be bothered reading them! So what are you crying about?

 

[Axehead]

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it..." Rom 14:4-6.


Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


Pretty straighforward and simple to me.

The Lord gave the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles and did not require anything of the law. Not circumcision nor sabbath days. Their hearts were purified by faith not by keeping the law. The Apostles "gave no such commandments", regarding the Mosaic Law.

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Who were these certain men?

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

According the the Word of God, anyone that preaches the requirements of the law (i.e. Sabbath days, circumcision, etc), for salvation are FALSE BRETHREN.

Phoneman777, Heretoeternity, Brakelite;
Direct question to you. Please give me a direct answer, YES or NO. Are you teaching that the keeping of the Sabbath Day, weekly is a requirement for Salvation?

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm pretty sure I already dealt with the Book of James earlier on, but I can't be bothered back-tracking, so let me explain it again. To start with, James never says "if WE (Christians) break the commandments then WE are transgressors of the law". What he actually says is that "whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking ALL of it". WHOEVER, in this case obviously refers to WHOEVER was under the Mosaic Law. It is an epistle written to Jews who became Christians and as such DEALT with the Mosiac law.

And why exactly does he bring up this point? Read the context! Read the preceding verses! Read the ENTIRE book! Throughout the book he speaks about how people are breaking the law of Christ by showing favoritism (verse 2:9), not looking after orphans and widows (1:26), and so on. So what he is actually doing, in the verses you cherry-pick, is giving us an analogy. He points out that just as someone who kept SOME of the commandments in the Mosiac law but IGNORED others were lawbreakers, people in the NEW Covenant, who only keep SOME of the Law of Christ were ALSO lawbreakers if they behaved in the manner he describes in detail throughout his epistle. SDAs are so intent in sifting out verses that they think supports their doctrine that they miss the analogy.

And ironically, in the midst of all this, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that you are willing to keep the 4th commandment (which you most likely are NOT), but break the 9th, and yet have the utter gall to invoke THIS VERSE in the hope that it proves your point - which it doesn't!


So I am thorough and answer all the issues you bring up. Pithy, in your case, is just a way of doing the opposite - ignoring anything that disproves your false doctrine.

Why all this moaning and groaning about long responses??? What does it have to do with this discussion? If you can't be bothered reading them, then don't respond.

In the meantime, I will make my responses as long as I think is necessary! So you will just have to put up with it.

And they aren't THAT long! Are they?

I mean, COME ON! If I can be bothered writing them, then surely you can be bothered reading them! So what are you crying about?

James said, "If THOU..." meaning CHRISTIANS.

 

[mjrhealth]

You have blasphemed the Holy Ghost.

Oh how the devil loves that one.

 

[mjrhealth]

Upp, if the Ten Commandments were not for Christians, then why does James say that if we break the 6th or 7th we "become transgressors of the law"??

Just remember the disciples where Jews coming out of a religious system and mostly speaking to Jews. It was not till after the dream with the sheets and the animals and teh unclean.

Act_10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Thats when Peter went to the gentiles.

Which is why people get so messed up.

In all His Love

 

[Phoneman777]

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it..." Rom 14:4-6.


Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


Pretty straighforward and simple to me.

The Lord gave the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles and did not require anything of the law. Not circumcision nor sabbath days. Their hearts were purified by faith not by keeping the law. The Apostles "gave no such commandments", regarding the Mosaic Law.

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Who were these certain men?

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

According the the Word of God, anyone that preaches the requirements of the law (i.e. Sabbath days, circumcision, etc), for salvation are FALSE BRETHREN.

Phoneman777, Heretoeternity, Brakelite;
Direct question to you. Please give me a direct answer, YES or NO. Are you teaching that the keeping of the Sabbath Day, weekly is a requirement for Salvation?

Axehead, the only requirement for salvation is that we accept Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Obedience to the Ten Commandments is the evidence that He sits enthroned as such upon our heart.
Disobedience to the Ten Commandments is the evidence that Satan sits enthroned upon our heart, regardless of whatever profession of Christ we make.

"Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

 

[Phoneman777]

I guess you missed this one than,

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I have no doubt that God will provide a way.

One day I will be perfected, I do not know when that day will be, untill than my Faith is in Jesus.

And that is why I don not worry and am not troubled.

In all His Love

Ever heard of Ted Turner? He claims he has no sin and no need of Jesus or salvation. True Christians heed Jesus' words, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments".

Still haven't broken any of the Ten Commandments so far as I write to you this evening...because I love Jesus...and I want to keep His commandments...and a person who says he loves Jesus but refuses to keep His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV (in case you missed that one). There is only one final destination for the disobedient sinner, whether it is he who sees no need for salvation or whether it is he who blasphemously redefines salvation as a license to continue in sin.

 

[mjrhealth]

Axehead, the only requirement for salvation is that we accept Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Amen.

So whats with the rest of teh stuff....

 

[Phoneman777]

Just remember the disciples where Jews coming out of a religious system and mostly speaking to Jews. It was not till after the dream with the sheets and the animals and teh unclean.

Act_10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Thats when Peter went to the gentiles.

Which is why people get so messed up.

In all His Love

People get messed up by refusing to accept the plain words of Scripture. James is clear to his audience of Christians that killing renders the killer guilty of violating "thou shalt not kill".

Paul was speaking to Gentile Romans when he said, "For not the hearers of the law are justified before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Those who love Jesus are able to obey Him by His indwelling Spirit and those who cannot/will not obey Him obviously do not love Him.