Sabbath-Keeping

[heretoeternity]

Oh how utterly ironic!!

You are simply beating around the bush, yes or no it really is not that hard, Well spilt it too make it easy for you.

Without the knowledge of the law would you go out and sin against anypone on purpose. I know where you are going with this.
Now if you knew the law but where not under it, would you still go out and sin against anypone on purpose.

Oh that devill has you twisted around his little finger and he is having a laugh it the cost of your life. is it worth it??

People this is what not going to Jesus does to people.

In All His Love

Apostle John said in 1st John "sin is transgression of the law" obviously referring to God's law, the ten commandments..and he also said "those who say they know him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sun god/satan and his days of sunday,dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

 

[mjrhealth]

heretoeternity,

maybe you can answer the question.

Without the knowledge of the law would you go out and sin against anypone on purpose.
Now if you knew the law but where not under it, would you still go out and sin against anypone on purpose.

In All His Love

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Apostle John said in 1st John "sin is transgression of the law" obviously referring to God's law, the ten commandments..and he also said "those who say they know him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"

Since John NOWHERE in his letters even mentions the 10 commandments, they why do you think it is "obvious" that he is referring to them? The commandments he DOES mention are those that are in line with the Law of Christ:

"And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded US." (1 John 3:23)

Has God commanded US to keep the 10 commandments??? NO! God has never commanded any Christian to keep the 10 commandments. We cannot keep them, so there is no point in giving commandments we cannot keep! What we CAN do is believe and love. Those are the ONLY commandments that apply to Christians. Your theology is a false one.

 

[mjrhealth]

"And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded US." (1 John 3:23)

Has God commanded US to keep the 10 commandments??? NO! God has never commanded any Christian to keep the 10 commandments. We cannot keep them, so there is no point in giving commandments we cannot keep! What we CAN do is believe and love. Those are the ONLY commandments that apply to Christians. Your theology is a false one.

Finally someone who understands.

Narrow is the way that leads to life and few shall find it.

 

[Axehead]

I agree with you that it is entirely possible to keep the letter of the law without the spirit of the law.

Why can't you agree with me that it is utterly impossible to keep the spirit of the law while breaking the letter of the law?

Can't agree with you on that because the law is only for those that are under the law. (Mosaic Law).

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Paul states that we are not under the law.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

How can we obey a law that we have become dead to?
Rom_7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Again, we have been delivered from the law and we do not serve the letter of the law. We don't break any "letters of the law", because you have to be under a law to break it.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom_3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

We are justified by faith not the deeds of the Law.
Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom_10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

We are not unrighteous if we do not keep the letter of the law,
Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Because, love fulfills the law and righteousness comes through Christ.

Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


If you are of the law, then you are cursed, because no man can continue in all things pertaining to the law.
Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Are you under the law? Do you desire to be under the law?

It is the Law of Christ that is important. No other Laws matter.
Gal_6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Phoneman777, heretoeternity, brakelite, I am going to have to cease this discussion because it falls under "strivings about the law", which really is not relevant to a Christian. You have been given 22 pages of evidence from the Word of God and if you wish to remain under the curse of the law, then so be it. It is your choice.

 

[zeke25]

Can't agree with you on that because the law is only for those that are under the law. (Mosaic Law).

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Paul states that we are not under the law.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

How can we obey a law that we have become dead to?
Rom_7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Again, we have been delivered from the law and we do not serve the letter of the law. We don't break any "letters of the law", because you have to be under a law to break it.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom_3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

We are justified by faith not the deeds of the Law.
Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom_10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

We are not unrighteous if we do not keep the letter of the law,
Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Because, love fulfills the law and righteousness comes through Christ.

Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


If you are of the law, then you are cursed, because no man can continue in all things pertaining to the law.
Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Are you under the law? Do you desire to be under the law?

It is the Law of Christ that is important. No other Laws matter.
Gal_6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Phoneman777, heretoeternity, brakelite, I am going to have to cease this discussion because it falls under "strivings about the law", which really is not relevant to a Christian. You have been given 22 pages of evidence from the Word of God and if you wish to remain under the curse of the law, then so be it. It is your choice.

Hear, hear!

 

[Phoneman777]

You want me to tell you its ok to keep the law. I cannot do that for it would cause me to sin against God by putting an unnecessary burden on you that you choose to carry. You have no undestaning of Love, if you knew love you would not ask such a question, why do you think Jesus said.

Mar_12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar_12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

How can one say one is saved by grace when one refuses grace to keep the law.

As it says

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. - Death its only reward.

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

You simply wont let it go even at the cost of your life. It wont stand up on judgement day.

So, you're saying that we shouldn't keep the law because it's a burden. I don't think that lines up with Scripture:

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not burdensome." 1 John 5:2-3 KJV

 

[Phoneman777]

Since John NOWHERE in his letters even mentions the 10 commandments...Your theology is a false one.

John said, "Little children, keep yourselves from idols," which is a direct reference to the Second of the Ten Commandments.

 

[Phoneman777]

Can't agree with you on that because the law is only for those that are under the law. (Mosaic Law).

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Paul states that we are not under the law.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

How can we obey a law that we have become dead to?
Rom_7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Again, we have been delivered from the law and we do not serve the letter of the law. We don't break any "letters of the law", because you have to be under a law to break it.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom_3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

We are justified by faith not the deeds of the Law.
Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom_10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

We are not unrighteous if we do not keep the letter of the law,
Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Because, love fulfills the law and righteousness comes through Christ.

Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


If you are of the law, then you are cursed, because no man can continue in all things pertaining to the law.
Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Are you under the law? Do you desire to be under the law?

It is the Law of Christ that is important. No other Laws matter.
Gal_6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Phoneman777, heretoeternity, brakelite, I am going to have to cease this discussion because it falls under "strivings about the law", which really is not relevant to a Christian. You have been given 22 pages of evidence from the Word of God and if you wish to remain under the curse of the law, then so be it. It is your choice.

You are confusing the temporary Law of Moses with the eternal Law of God which "stands fast forever and ever". If we are at liberty to disregard the Ten Commandments that you claim we are not obligated to keep, then say so, or otherwise stop claiming that we are not obligated to keep them.

 

[mjrhealth]

Im sorry Phoneman, i think we finally have gotten the point across, for those who seek the truth to understand. The fine line between Law and Grace. The devil has "LAW" keepers twisted around his little finger simply by a few words, but you are not alone. Again you simply will not take these things before God and insist on doing it all your way. Again you go to God and show Him how you kept the LAW and He will show you a thousand ways on how you Broke them and each one has only one price death.For LAW keepers there is no Grace they have trodden the works of Christ underfoot. Sad thing is if was a court case and God asked satan "where is the witness" he will simply point to you, for you yourself will condmen yourself by your own words, " but God I kept the LAW. Only Jesus ever could are you greater than Jesus??/

Now it ends.

Thanks Axehead, Zeke and Uppsa.I think we can close this.

 

[Axehead]

You are confusing the temporary Law of Moses with the eternal Law of God which "stands fast forever and ever". If we are at liberty to disregard the Ten Commandments that you claim we are not obligated to keep, then say so, or otherwise stop claiming that we are not obligated to keep them.

I will say it for the last time.

The 10 commandments are inferior to the Law of Christ and that is why we are not obligated to keep them. Now, through Christ we go much further than the 10 commandments. They are all shadows of something greater, and that is Jesus Christ and His righteousness and the new man He has created who is able through Christ to have a pure heart (thought and intents of the heart). And you do this by receiving Christ and loving God and loving your neighbor.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Regarding the foreshadowing of the Sabbath, Christ wants us to have spiritual rest from our own righteous works and we do that by accepting by faith His righteousness, His righteous works. And thus, He is now our Sabbath Rest, 7x24x365. It only takes the flesh to observe a physical day of rest but it takes complete surrender and trust in Christ to truly enter into His spiritual rest.

We have 22 pages of testing the spirits, and I have to wonder whether you have the Spirit of God or if your mind has been captured by a seducing/deceiving spirit. Your understanding is earthly and not heavenly, fleshly, not spiritual.

The religious mind/flesh just can't stand it and wants to add to what Christ has done. That is pure and adulterated pride. While you stand in judgment of men of God (Romans 14), we are warning you that you will meet a sad end if you continue to teach the false doctrine of keeping the law. You are no longer naive and ignorant as to what the law is. May the Lord help you to free yourself from the false doctrine that has captured your heart and CANNOT lead you into godliness.

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I must now turn away from you until you repent.

Axehead

 

[zeke25]

Im sorry Phoneman, i think we finally have gotten the point across, for those who seek the truth to understand. The fine line between Law and Grace. The devil has "LAW" keepers twisted around his little finger simply by a few words, but you are not alone. Again you simply will not take these things before God and insist on doing it all your way. Again you go to God and show Him how you kept the LAW and He will show you a thousand ways on how you Broke them and each one has only one price death.For LAW keepers there is no Grace they have trodden the works of Christ underfoot. Sad thing is if was a court case and God asked satan "where is the witness" he will simply point to you, for you yourself will condmen yourself by your own words, " but God I kept the LAW. Only Jesus ever could are you greater than Jesus??/

Now it ends.

Thanks Axehead, Zeke and Uppsa.I think we can close this.

Hear, hear, again. Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Im sorry Phoneman, i think we finally have gotten the point across, for those who seek the truth to understand. The fine line between Law and Grace. The devil has "LAW" keepers twisted around his little finger simply by a few words, but you are not alone. Again you simply will not take these things before God and insist on doing it all your way. Again you go to God and show Him how you kept the LAW and He will show you a thousand ways on how you Broke them and each one has only one price death.For LAW keepers there is no Grace they have trodden the works of Christ underfoot. Sad thing is if was a court case and God asked satan "where is the witness" he will simply point to you, for you yourself will condmen yourself by your own words, " but God I kept the LAW. Only Jesus ever could are you greater than Jesus??/

Now it ends.

Thanks Axehead, Zeke and Uppsa.I think we can close this.

I love Jesus and He said, "If ye love me keep My commandments."

Matthew 7:23 does not say, "Depart from Me, you that work the law." It says, "Depart from Me you that work lawlessness".

Praise God, there will be no lawbreakers in heaven!!!

 

[Phoneman777]

I will say it for the last time.

The 10 commandments are inferior to the Law of Christ and that is why we are not obligated to keep them. Now, through Christ we go much further than the 10 commandments. They are all shadows of something greater, and that is Jesus Christ and His righteousness and the new man He has created who is able through Christ to have a pure heart (thought and intents of the heart). And you do this by receiving Christ and loving God and loving your neighbor.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Regarding the foreshadowing of the Sabbath, Christ wants us to have spiritual rest from our own righteous works and we do that by accepting by faith His righteousness, His righteous works. And thus, He is now our Sabbath Rest, 7x24x365. It only takes the flesh to observe a physical day of rest but it takes complete surrender and trust in Christ to truly enter into His spiritual rest.

We have 22 pages of testing the spirits, and I have to wonder whether you have the Spirit of God or if your mind has been captured by a seducing/deceiving spirit. Your understanding is earthly and not heavenly, fleshly, not spiritual.

The religious mind/flesh just can't stand it and wants to add to what Christ has done. That is pure and adulterated pride. While you stand in judgment of men of God (Romans 14), we are warning you that you will meet a sad end if you continue to teach the false doctrine of keeping the law. You are no longer naive and ignorant as to what the law is. May the Lord help you to free yourself from the false doctrine that has captured your heart and CANNOT lead you into godliness.

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I must now turn away from you until you repent.

Axehead

Which of the Ten Commandments are we at liberty to break if we are not obligated to keep them?

 

[mjrhealth]

Which of the Ten Commandments are we at liberty to break if we are not obligated to keep them?

That my friend is why you cant answer teh question, simply you do not know LOVE.

In all His Love.. i wish that you would know His Love.

 

[Phoneman777]

That my friend is why you cant answer teh question, simply you do not know LOVE.

In all His Love.. i wish that you would know His Love.

The Bible says that we are to "reason" together. Is it not reasonable to ask people who claim we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments which of them we are at liberty to break?

 

[mjrhealth]

The Bible says that we are to "reason" together. Is it not reasonable to ask people who claim we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments which of them we are at liberty to break?

Its reasoning tha tgot you into thsi mess in the first place. Why dont you take things to Jesus, is He dead ti you, is God not the God of the living, whatever happened to the Holy Spirit who is supposed to teach you teh truth, iis it your own underdstaning that you will continually lean on. No we cannot "reason" with you you want us to tell you its OK to keep teh law, we have given you all teh evidence yet you brush it all aside, no man can reason with evil, Jesus told that to a friend of mine.for any one to tell you its good to keep the law they would have to sin against God and tell you a lie. is that what you would like us to do. Sin against God so you can please your flesh.

In

 

[heretoeternity]

Paul said in Romans "do we make void the law through faith?God forbid. We establish the law" Now upsi and mjr health, what law do you think Paul and Apostle John were referring..you seem to think it is the highway traffic act or patriot act maybe? lol..

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments (the law of God) and not the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday,dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin!

 

[Phoneman777]

Its reasoning tha tgot you into thsi mess in the first place. Why dont you take things to Jesus, is He dead ti you, is God not the God of the living, whatever happened to the Holy Spirit who is supposed to teach you teh truth, iis it your own underdstaning that you will continually lean on. No we cannot "reason" with you you want us to tell you its OK to keep teh law, we have given you all teh evidence yet you brush it all aside, no man can reason with evil, Jesus told that to a friend of mine.for any one to tell you its good to keep the law they would have to sin against God and tell you a lie. is that what you would like us to do. Sin against God so you can please your flesh.

In

All I want is a simple YES or NO answer: Are Christians at liberty to break the Ten Commandments if they are not obligated to keep them?

 

[mjrhealth]

The differnce betwen law and grace, the law and Love, Death and Life.

Going on what you want phoneman. When you walk down teh street and see a pretty girl and for a brief flash you have thoughts taht please your flesh. You are a dead man for you have broken teh LAW that you so strongly hold on too no grace no mercy, death has being lade at your charge. While for the rest of us who choose love and grace its just oh well, and life goes on, no condemnation, God has made allownces for our flesh and all taken care off. But how can one answer you when you cant even answer one simple question..

Without the law would you purposely go out to,
murder, steal, rape, hate, condemn, sin. lust, not forgive.

You cant this because you dont know love, which I think by know all the readers can see.

In all His Love