Sabbath-Keeping

[ATP]

You are secured if you are striving to be faithful to Jesus. The way you are preaching is spreading false sense of security. It is a grave sin to lead people astray, friend.

You are secured once you believe in the name of Jesus John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV.

Neither present nor future can separate me from Christ. Either you believe or you don't. Rom 8:33, 35, 38, 39 says neither..

trouble
hardship
persecution
famine
nakedness
danger or sword
death nor life
nor angels
nor rulers
nor things present nor things to come
nor powers
nor height nor depth
nor anything else in all creation

will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 5:5 NIV And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

 

[ATP]

Jesus says:
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
That's enough for me.

However, it may not be enough for you.

Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Now, I don't know about you, but to me, Jesus Christ is very much alive and the very same Jesus Who walked among us.
The Lord, Who is my Lord, says that He is also Lord of the Sabbath. That means something to me.
He says that the Sabbath was made for man...I am a member of the race of men, so the Sabbath was also made for me.
And I am grateful...

The NT is not referring to the commandments of men or the law. It is about the injunctions of faith, love, and obedience. John and the other apostles never use "the law" to express the rule of Christian obedience: he uses it as the Mosaic law. The NT works off of Grace Salvation, not works. In the NT Jesus already died and had been resurrected, thus pouring out His Grace and Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

 

[Barrd]

That's good to hear. Don't get caught up in this sabbath keeping heresy then. God did not command you to keep the sabbath day. Nor is anyone under that commandment any more. When He said "it is finished" at the tree, it was finished. Including any sabbath day keeping requirements. Those that teach otherwise are jealous of your freedom and the grace Christ has bestowed upon His children. No one has been able to show me a single Scripture that requires that I keep the sabbath day - that's because there is none.

Zeke25

Now, understand, I do not concern myself with all the Mosaic additions to the commandment. Yes, we use electricity, we cook food, we sometimes watch movies or go for a drive....
For us it was strictly a day of no work.
We did not, for instance, go to a restaurant, or to a convenience store, because that would involve paying someone else to work for us...a big no-no.

 

[Barrd]

You are secured once you believe in the name of Jesus John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV.

Neither present nor future can separate me from Christ. Either you believe or you don't. Rom 8:33, 35, 38, 39 says neither..

trouble
hardship
persecution
famine
nakedness
danger or sword
death nor life
nor angels
nor rulers
nor things present nor things to come
nor powers
nor height nor depth
nor anything else in all creation

will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 5:5 NIV And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

That's all great, ATP...but there's a bit more to it than that.
Think of poor Joe Bob who repented every day for 50 years...(I still say I would have made him at least 70)
Why would he do that, if he thought he could sin and "get away with it"?

 

[ATP]

That's all great, ATP...but there's a bit more to it than that.
Think of poor Joe Bob who repented every day for 50 years...(I still say I would have made him at least 70)
Why would he do that, if he thought he could sin and "get away with it"?

No, there isn't more to it. The Gospel says once you believe you have eternal life. "It's not rocket science".

 

[Barrd]

The NT is not referring to the commandments of men or the law. It is about the injunctions of faith, love, and obedience. John and the other apostles never use "the law" to express the rule of Christian obedience: he uses it as the Mosaic law. The NT works off of Grace Salvation, not works. In the NT Jesus already died and had been resurrected, thus pouring out His Grace and Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

I thought we'd been over this?
We looked at the prophecy in Jeremiah:

The New Covenant

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This prophecy looks forward to the New Covenant.
We see that God intends to include His law in this covenant....it is not a lawless covenant.
And He also includes grace for forgiveness.

We also looked at Hebrews, where it looks back at this prophecy.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So we see that the writer of Hebrews, writing AFTER the resurrection, also tells us that the New Covenant...the one we are under right now...includes God's law, just as God had told us by the mouth of His prophet, Jeremiah.
There is grace, of course...God will be merciful to our unrighteousness...however, breaking His law is still "unrighteousness."

 

[Barrd]

No, there isn't more to it. The Gospel says once you believe you have eternal life. "It's not rocket science".

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The Apostle has said all that need be said right here...

After all....
It's not rocket science.

 

[ATP]

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Nothing in these scriptures mention losing your salvation if you disobey.

 

[Barrd]

The NT is not referring to the commandments of men or the law. It is about the injunctions of faith, love, and obedience. John and the other apostles never use "the law" to express the rule of Christian obedience: he uses it as the Mosaic law. The NT works off of Grace Salvation, not works. In the NT Jesus already died and had been resurrected, thus pouring out His Grace and Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

A couple of things that you may not be aware of...or maybe aren't really considering here...
First of all, John and the other apostles kept the ten commandments, including the fourth commandment, as Christ had taught them during His life. They also taught others to do the same. The idea of the apostles worshiping other gods, or idols, or using God's name as a curse, or breaking the sabbath, or disrespecting parents, or breaking any of the rest of the ten commandments is ludicrous, and I think we already established that.
We agreed that the law...the ten commandments...were still valid, but only "under grace". Let's not have to go back through the same argument, because we both know that it will have the same result.
What we are discussing right now is what "grace" actually means.
Does it mean that you can sin with impunity...for instance, if you are gay, can you continue in your gay lifestyle...and still expect to go to heaven?
NO! It does not mean that at all! I have actually met a child molester who is sure that he will still go to heaven, even though he has not repented of his sin, nor has he any intention of it. Needless to say, he is not welcome here, or anywhere near me, but that's beside the point. There are shoplifters who are sure that God will turn a blind eye on their five-finger discounts, because after all, they are poor and they "need" this stuff...besides the stores overcharge. I'm sure, if we tried, we could find people who have broken all of these commandments, but who justify themselves for one reason or another....and they are quite sure that they will be in heaven anyway. Adultery is a very popular sin...and, don't you know it's okay with God, because this one isn't happy in his marriage, or that one needs a little romance in her life...and, of course, they're all going to heaven even though they have no intention of repenting.

Are any of these "looking in"? It's very possible.
They read your posts and decide that folks like The Barrd, or Joyful, are dead wrong....they don't need to repent, because ATP and his crowd said so, and they must be right...so they don't repent, and go on living in their sin.
One day, ATP, they will die...and after that, the Judgment. How do you think they will fare on that day?

One day, ATP, YOU will die...and after that, the Judgment. Will their blood be on your hands?

One day, I will die. I have advocated obedience and repentance, and have taught these beliefs to all who would hear me.
Was I wrong? I am content to face God with what I have said...

 

[ATP]

They read your posts and decide that folks like The Barrd, or Joyful, are dead wrong....they don't need to repent, because ATP and his crowd said so, and they must be right...so they don't repent, and go on living in their sin.

I would think that, what your crowd is preaching brings upon the spirit of fear. "You better behave or you're going to hell". That is not the Gospel. Actually, if you read scripture it tells us that we no longer have the spirit of fear. We no longer have to fear death or hell..Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV.

It also teaches us that we can be confident that we have eternal life 1 John 5:13-14 NIV. It also teaches us things like...

ADOPTION - Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV

ALL SINS ARE COVERED - John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 10:12 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, Rev 1:4-5 NIV

WE ARE ONLY BELIEVING ONCE - Matt 21:25 NIV, Matt 21:31-32 NIV, Matt 27:42 NIV, John 1:12-13 NIV, John 2:23 NIV, John 3:12 NIV, John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 4:42 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 5:37-38 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, John 6:35-40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:64 NIV, John 6:69 NIV, John 7:38-39 NIV, John 7:48 NIV, John 8:24 NIV, John 8:31-32 NIV, John 8:46-47 NIV, John 9:35-38 NIV, John 10:25-26 NIV, John 10:41-42 NIV, John 11:25-26 NIV, John 11:40-42 NIV, John 13:19-20 NIV, John 14:11 NIV, John 14:29 NIV, John 16:8-11 NIV, John 16:27 NIV, John 17:8 NIV, John 17:20-21 NIV, John 20:25 NIV, John 20:29-31 NIV, Acts 4:4 NIV, Acts 5:14 NIV, Acts 9:42 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 11:17 NIV, Acts 13:39 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Acts 14:1-2 NIV, Acts 14:27 NIV, Acts 15:7 NIV, Acts 16:30-31 NIV, Acts 17:12 NIV, Acts 17:34 NIV, Acts 18:8 NIV, Acts 18:27-28 NIV, Acts 19:2 NIV, Acts 19:18 NIV, Acts 20:21 NIV, Acts 21:20 NIV, Acts 22:19 NIV, Acts 23:6 NIV, Acts 24:21 NIV, Acts 24:24 NIV, Acts 26:18 NIV, Acts 28:23-24 NIV, Rom 1:8 NIV, Rom 1:16 NIV, Rom 3:22 NIV, Rom 4:13 NIV, Rom 4:24 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV, Rom 10:14-16 NIV, Rom 13:11 NIV, Rom 16:26 NIV, 1 Cor 1:21 NIV, Gal 3:22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 5:1 NIV, 1 John 5:5 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV

WE BELONG TO CHRIST - John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

THE BLOOD OF CHRIST - Acts 20:28 NIV, Rev 1:4-5 NIV

NO CONDEMNATION - Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV

ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING LIFE - John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV

HEIRS TO CHRIST - Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV

INHERITANCE - Psalm 94:14 NIV, Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Jude 1:24 NIV

GOD WILL LOSE NONE OF THE ELECT - John 6:39 NIV, John 17:9-10 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, Rom 5:5 NIV

THE POWER AND PROTECTION OF GOD - John 17:11 NIV, John 17:15 NIV, Rom 1:16 NIV, Rom 1:20 NIV, Rom 15:13 NIV, 1 Cor 1:17 NIV, 1 Cor 2:4-5 NIV, 1 Cor 4:20 NIV, 1 Cor 5:4-5 NIV, 1 Cor 6:14 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT - John 6:39 NIV, John 10:27-30 NIV, Acts 2:33 NIV, Acts 2:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 4:16 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Rom 9:8 NIV, Gal 3:22 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Phil 1:6 NIV, Heb 4:1 ESV, 2 Peter 2:4-10 NIV, 1 John 2:24-25 NIV, Jude 1:24 NIV

THE SEAL OF GOD - John 6:27 NIV, John 17:26 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, 1 John 2:27 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

WE ARE VICTORIOUS THROUGH CHRIST - Prov 21:31 NIV, John 16:33 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 2:7 NIV, Rev 21:7-8 NIV

Do you see now how you are swimming upstream, against the Gospel message? - ATP

Psa 38:13-14 NIV I am like the deaf, who cannot hear, like the mute, who cannot speak; 14I have become like one who does not hear, whose mouth can offer no reply.

 

[Barrd]

I would think that, what your crowd is preaching brings upon the spirit of fear. "You better behave or you're going to hell". That is not the Gospel. Actually, if you read scripture it tells us that we no longer have the spirit of fear. We no longer have to fear death or hell..Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV.

It also teaches us that we can be confident that we have eternal life 1 John 5:13-14 NIV. It also teaches us things like...

ADOPTION - Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV

ALL SINS ARE COVERED - John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 10:12 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, Rev 1:4-5 NIV

WE ARE ONLY BELIEVING ONCE - Matt 21:25 NIV, Matt 21:31-32 NIV, Matt 27:42 NIV, John 1:12-13 NIV, John 2:23 NIV, John 3:12 NIV, John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 4:42 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 5:37-38 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, John 6:35-40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:64 NIV, John 6:69 NIV, John 7:38-39 NIV, John 7:48 NIV, John 8:24 NIV, John 8:31-32 NIV, John 8:46-47 NIV, John 9:35-38 NIV, John 10:25-26 NIV, John 10:41-42 NIV, John 11:25-26 NIV, John 11:40-42 NIV, John 13:19-20 NIV, John 14:11 NIV, John 14:29 NIV, John 16:8-11 NIV, John 16:27 NIV, John 17:8 NIV, John 17:20-21 NIV, John 20:25 NIV, John 20:29-31 NIV, Acts 4:4 NIV, Acts 5:14 NIV, Acts 9:42 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 11:17 NIV, Acts 13:39 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Acts 14:1-2 NIV, Acts 14:27 NIV, Acts 15:7 NIV, Acts 16:30-31 NIV, Acts 17:12 NIV, Acts 17:34 NIV, Acts 18:8 NIV, Acts 18:27-28 NIV, Acts 19:2 NIV, Acts 19:18 NIV, Acts 20:21 NIV, Acts 21:20 NIV, Acts 22:19 NIV, Acts 23:6 NIV, Acts 24:21 NIV, Acts 24:24 NIV, Acts 26:18 NIV, Acts 28:23-24 NIV, Rom 1:8 NIV, Rom 1:16 NIV, Rom 3:22 NIV, Rom 4:13 NIV, Rom 4:24 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV, Rom 10:14-16 NIV, Rom 13:11 NIV, Rom 16:26 NIV, 1 Cor 1:21 NIV, Gal 3:22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 5:1 NIV, 1 John 5:5 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV

WE BELONG TO CHRIST - John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

THE BLOOD OF CHRIST - Acts 20:28 NIV, Rev 1:4-5 NIV

NO CONDEMNATION - Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV

ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING LIFE - John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV

HEIRS TO CHRIST - Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV

INHERITANCE - Psalm 94:14 NIV, Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Jude 1:24 NIV

GOD WILL LOSE NONE OF THE ELECT - John 6:39 NIV, John 17:9-10 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, Rom 5:5 NIV

THE POWER AND PROTECTION OF GOD - John 17:11 NIV, John 17:15 NIV, Rom 1:16 NIV, Rom 1:20 NIV, Rom 15:13 NIV, 1 Cor 1:17 NIV, 1 Cor 2:4-5 NIV, 1 Cor 4:20 NIV, 1 Cor 5:4-5 NIV, 1 Cor 6:14 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT - John 6:39 NIV, John 10:27-30 NIV, Acts 2:33 NIV, Acts 2:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 4:16 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Rom 9:8 NIV, Gal 3:22 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Phil 1:6 NIV, Heb 4:1 ESV, 2 Peter 2:4-10 NIV, 1 John 2:24-25 NIV, Jude 1:24 NIV

THE SEAL OF GOD - John 6:27 NIV, John 17:26 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, 1 John 2:27 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

WE ARE VICTORIOUS THROUGH CHRIST - Prov 21:31 NIV, John 16:33 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 2:7 NIV, Rev 21:7-8 NIV

Do you see now how you are swimming upstream, against the Gospel message? - ATP

Psa 38:13-14 NIV I am like the deaf, who cannot hear, like the mute, who cannot speak; 14I have become like one who does not hear, whose mouth can offer no reply.

Are you serious? There is no fear in repentance! Knowing that God is gracious to forgive our sins ought to be enough to remove any fear.
We know that the wages of sin is death...a person cannot live in their sins and expect to inherit eternal life. If there is any fear, it ought to be fear of what follows if we do not repent, but insist on living in our sin.

As far as "swimming upstream"....my Lord said that the road to destruction is broad and well-traveled.
But the road to life, He told us, was narrow, and few would find it.
Therefore, I am content to be "swimming upstream". Far better than to be following a crowd that is headed the wrong way...

I am aware that my sins have been atoned for on Calvary...but when I think of that gentle, loving Man, and what He suffered for my sake, it breaks my heart. I find myself in tears, knowing that I certainly do not deserve His grace....much less His love.
And yet, He loves me.
Knowing this makes me try even harder to live a life that is pleasing to Him...and yet, I still "mess up", if only in my mind.
I am aware that He will not lose even one that has trusted Him, but I am convinced that it is the job of the Holy Spirit to keep each one aware of his or her sins, and to bring us to repentance.
A person who can sin and feel no remorse...no need to repent...that person has not received the Holy Spirit. He has shown by his stubborn pride that he is none of Christ's.
Swimming upstream? I've been doing that all of my life. You'd be surprised how lovely it is, up here away from the crowded boulevard....

Just me...and my Beloved...

 

[Phoneman777]

Just as a reminder to any who look in. I do not dialogue with phonyman because he says nothing to edify the Body of Christ. He despises the shed Blood of Christ and mocks His sacrifice. It is all documented in this thread. Go look for it if you care to. For those of you who do continue to dialogue with him, it might be more spiritually safe for you to go to a fortune teller. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to associate with a person who hates Christ and mocks His shed Blood. You people that do this make me sick. If you look for the documentation, look for my comments first. It will be easier to find than looking for his comments first.

Zeke25

Brother Zeke, just as an 11th hour governor's pardon doesn't give a condemned man the right to go out and continue breaking the law, Christ did not die to give you the freedom to continue doing what made necessary His ignominious death on the Cross in the first place.

 

[Phoneman777]

Are you kidding me?
I raised seven kids...through most of that time, I was a widow, our husband and father having been taken from us by a drunk driver before the baby was out of her diapers.
When he was killed, we had not life insurance.
I had no skills...none. I didn't even have a driver's license...not that it would have done me any good. The car was totaled.
If I wanted to keep my family together, there was nothing for it...I had to roll up my sleeves and go to work.
And, I worked, my friend. I mean, I worked HARD.

Do you think that a day of rest was a burden to me? Quite the opposite...I looked forward to my Saturdays with the kids. It was the highlight of my week. If not for my blessed Sabbaths, I think I would have lost my mind during those years.
Do you not see that a day of rest...a day for the family to spend together, to pray, to read, to relax...is a blessing?
Today I am a grandmother...and a great grandmother...and my family still keeps the Sabbath. My sons in law are thrilled not to have "honey-do" lists for their Saturdays, and my grandkids love not having chores that one day a week...although the teenagers still chafe a bit at having to stay home. Most of them are satisfied that their parents let them have company, however, so it works out.
For us, the Sabbath has been a blessing. I wouldn't give it up for anything! I thank God for it, still to this day.

What a testimony! Isn't the "blessed hope" which includes being reunited with those who have fallen asleep in Christ the sweetest hope of all? The Sabbath rest is a weekly reminder that God created the world in six days and rested the seventh, that He can re-create new hearts within us with the desire to obey His Ten Commandments, and that He will re-create this world where the saints from all ages will happily enjoy the blessed Sabbath rest for all eternity!

 

[Phoneman777]

You are secured once you believe in the name of Jesus John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV.

Neither present nor future can separate me from Christ. Either you believe or you don't. Rom 8:33, 35, 38, 39 says neither..

trouble
hardship
persecution
famine
nakedness
danger or sword
death nor life
nor angels
nor rulers
nor things present nor things to come
nor powers
nor height nor depth
nor anything else in all creation

will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 5:5 NIV And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

ATP, I think your misunderstanding of the word "believe" has led you to OSAS. A man may "believe" his house in on fire, but if his belief is just merely a mental assent - and does not compel him to action - he will burn up with it.

In the same way, if we believe by faith that Jesus died and became our Savior then what follows after is that we must believe that He is Lord over us as well, and not we ourselves. The deadly mistake of OSAS is that provids a false means to allow Jesus' Saviorship to overshadow his Lordship.

 

[Phoneman777]

I publicly declare that Christians are obligated to keep the Ten Commandments. I issue a challenge to anyone - including Zeke - claiming that Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments to publicly declare in the face of God and before men that the Christian is at liberty to break them, though doing so is what caused the death of Jesus in the first place, and continuing to do so crucifies Him afresh and puts Him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

 

[mjrhealth]

and continuing to do so crucifies Him afresh and puts Him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

Yes you should remember that next time you do. Or is it that you do not sin???

PS again I say the only people that assume anyone would break teh law are those who claim too keep it. Find me one Christian who says you should deliberatly break he law. Love doesnt need the law that why tohose without Love do.??

But what we see is a lot of this.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

As for the LAW -

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Who are you married to the LAW or Christ??

Or as it says,

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Sometimes when Christ leaves the 99 to find the one, He finds the one doesnt want to be found..

Many are called and few are chosen

And now you can have it out with God.

In allHis Love

 

[Joyful]

Who are you married to the LAW or Christ??

This question is not appropriate because if you are married to Jesus, He is your Lord. You don't seem to understand the meaning of the "Lord". It is Master. If He is your Master, you will obey His commands.

 

[Barrd]

What a testimony! Isn't the "blessed hope" which includes being reunited with those who have fallen asleep in Christ the sweetest hope of all? The Sabbath rest is a weekly reminder that God created the world in six days and rested the seventh, that He can re-create new hearts within us with the desire to obey His Ten Commandments, and that He will re-create this world where the saints from all ages will happily enjoy the blessed Sabbath rest for all eternity!

The first few years were unbearable, Phoneman...I lost myself in work. I cleaned people's houses, took in their laundry, did yardwork...anything that would make me a little money. And the older kids helped as much as they could. I didn't really have a lot of time to grieve for my poor husband...but I remember sitting alone at night, watching the headlights going by...knowing that they weren't going to turn in at my driveway...ever again.
But eventually I managed to put myself through two years of Junior College...I had an associate's degree in law....enough to get me a job as a legal secretary! Just one eight hour a day job was enough to support me and my "litter"...no more working myself into exhaustion! I could actually be home with the kids in the afternoons! I had gotten myself a driver's license as well, and an old clunker of a car.
Eventually I managed to work my way up to legal assistant, and I actually made a pretty good living.
During all that time, my Saturdays at home with my babies was everything to me. We dedicated that one day a week to God...and to each other. I believe it kept us close during some really bad times...

Yes, knowing that my David is safe with the Lord and that I will see him again one day is a very precious promise. I know he will be proud of me. I did a pretty good job raising our brood. No, they aren't perfect. Neither am I. But my three boys and my four girls are all pretty good kids...if I do say so myself...

 

[Barrd]

Yes you should remember that next time you do. Or is it that you do not sin???

PS again I say the only people that assume anyone would break teh law are those who claim too keep it. Find me one Christian who says you should deliberatly break he law. Love doesnt need the law that why tohose without Love do.??

But what we see is a lot of this.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

As for the LAW -

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Who are you married to the LAW or Christ??

Or as it says,

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Sometimes when Christ leaves the 99 to find the one, He finds the one doesnt want to be found..

Many are called and few are chosen

And now you can have it out with God.

In allHis Love

Jesus did not die so that you could have a license to sin. Homosexuality is still an abomination, and, as Paul says, those that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. I hope you do realize that...it's all there, in the Bible, if you will only believe it.
I am pretty sure Phoneman knows that his sin also separates him from God, as do I...that is why we repent of our sins, and, with God's help, work to keep that sin out of our lives, and why we are telling others that they need to repent, and turn away from their sin, also.
Yes, Mj...we all have that other law in our members. Our flesh still desires what is sinful. But we, like Paul, can be delivered from this body of death! We can fight back against our sinful flesh with the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!! We do not have to be slaves to sin, we can be set free from the chains of sex, greed, lust, jealousy, hatred....all of it...through prayer and sacrifice. We cannot do this in our own power...but with God on our side, what can be impossible for us?
To be washed clean and then to go back to the same old sinful lifestyle you were living before you knew Jesus is compared to a pig who goes back to her wallowing in the mud, or a dog that returns to his vomit...ewww, nasty!
This idea that some folks seem to have, that they can hide their sin among the sheep will not work...the Lord knows a goat when He sees one. He is aware that there are tares among the wheat...and they will not be gathered into the barn, but burned with unquenchable fire.

If you are, as you say, married to Christ, then you are wed to the One Who has said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments".
I love Him.
Therefore, as He asked me to do, I will do my level best to keep my Bridegroom's commandments.
I would have Him find me, when He returns for me, dressed in my beautiful white robe that He has purchased for me with His blood...not in a ragged, stained up old dress.
I have oil for my lamp...I suggest you get some for yours while there is yet time...

 

[ATP]

ATP, I think your misunderstanding of the word "believe" has led you to OSAS.

But the words "believe" and "eternal life" are in the same sentence or passage if you will. The word "believe" might refer to Rom 10:9...

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: