Sabbath-Keeping

[zeke25]

We are commanded to love and teach grace however. I know, it's hard sometimes.

ATP,

You must do that which the Father is doing. If you feel led down a path different than mine, that is between you and God.

I am reminded of the story of the beaver and the rattlesnake. The rattlesnake asked for a ride to the other side of the river. The beaver said, "How can I help you, you are a rattlesnake and will bite me?"

"If you will do me this one favor, I promise not to bite you."

The beaver then agreed and took the rattlesnake to the other bank.

As the rattlesnake was crawling off the beaver's back, he bit him.

The beaver, immediately in the throes of death, protested and said, "You promised not to bite me."

The snake said, "You knew I was a rattlesnake when you agreed to help me, why would you expect me to behave in a way contrary to my nature?"

zeke25

 

[ATP]

ATP,

You must do that which the Father is doing. If you feel led down a path different than mine, that is between you and God.

I am reminded of the story of the beaver and the rattlesnake. The rattlesnake asked for a ride to the other side of the river. The beaver said, "How can I help you, you are a rattlesnake and will bite me?"

"If you will do me this one favor, I promise not to bite you."

The beaver then agreed and took the rattlesnake to the other bank.

As the rattlesnake was crawling off the beaver's back, he bit him.

The beaver, immediately in the throes of death, protested and said, "You promised not to bite me."

The snake said, "You knew I was a rattlesnake when you agreed to help me, why would you expect me to behave in a way contrary to my nature?"

zeke25

Shalom.

 

[zeke25]

Are you kidding me?
I raised seven kids...through most of that time, I was a widow, our husband and father having been taken from us by a drunk driver before the baby was out of her diapers.
When he was killed, we had not life insurance.
I had no skills...none. I didn't even have a driver's license...not that it would have done me any good. The car was totaled.
If I wanted to keep my family together, there was nothing for it...I had to roll up my sleeves and go to work.
And, I worked, my friend. I mean, I worked HARD.

Do you think that a day of rest was a burden to me? Quite the opposite...I looked forward to my Saturdays with the kids. It was the highlight of my week. If not for my blessed Sabbaths, I think I would have lost my mind during those years.
Do you not see that a day of rest...a day for the family to spend together, to pray, to read, to relax...is a blessing?
Today I am a grandmother...and a great grandmother...and my family still keeps the Sabbath. My sons in law are thrilled not to have "honey-do" lists for their Saturdays, and my grandkids love not having chores that one day a week...although the teenagers still chafe a bit at having to stay home. Most of them are satisfied that their parents let them have company, however, so it works out.
For us, the Sabbath has been a blessing. I wouldn't give it up for anything! I thank God for it, still to this day.

The Barrd,

The sabbath you are speaking of is not the same sabbath that the SDA preaches. My wife and I took a day of rest on Wednesday for years. A day of rest can be important, but it does not have to be Saturday. I am glad you benefited from your day of rest.

Your story is a great testimony, but it is not a testimony for sabbath-keeping. For example, tomorrow - Friday 8/21/15 - is God's designated weekly Sabbath day. The point being that the SDA doesn't use the right calendar and neither do any of us (I am an exception), but that shouldn't stop you from taking a day of rest if you feel that is what God has called you to. But the SDA preaches a false gospel and claims to be keeping God's sabbath day, and they don't even know when it is. They are hypocrites and liars. The SDA hates and preaches against the RCC, yet they use the RCC's corrupt calendar to find their false sabbath. Then in their pride they chide the Body of Christ for not following them into their apostasy.

I could give a similar testimony as your's for my wife of 22 years. Only her ex-husband was not killed. He was still left around so that he could threaten to burn her house down and all sorts of other harassments for years before she was delivered from it. These were not idle threats considering his gang activities. She couldn't work and she couldn't get state assistance due to the fraudulent activities of her ex. For years she went from house to house as a guest with her four skinny children or as a house sitter for a week, then she had to move on. Social security denied her disability claim. It was only God that kept her and her children from living on the street. I can empathize with your hard experiences.

So, let's not take the focus away from what we are discussing on this thread. We are discussing the heresy of sabbath-keeping, and the danger to one's eternal security by preaching it. Galatians 5:4 KJV, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you ar justified by the Law: ye are fallen from grace."

zeke25

 

[zeke25]

Zeke, that is harsh.
How long will it be before you are saying these things about me, since I also believe that we are to keep the Lord's commandments?

Should a Christian have this sort of attitude toward others?

Where is your love, Zeke?

The Barrd,

You are speaking from your emotions, not from the Word of God. Christ said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments."-John 14:15. This does not obligate us to keep the 10 Commandments under the Mosaic covenant. So, what commandments is Christ speaking of? You have the whole NT to explore for your answer. One place to start is Mt. 5, 6, 7.

If you're not feeling the love, then try checking in with the Holy Spirit before you push your enter button.

zeke25

 

[zeke25]

The NT is not referring to the commandments of men or the law. It is about the injunctions of faith, love, and obedience. John and the other apostles never use "the law" to express the rule of Christian obedience: he uses it as the Mosaic law. The NT works off of Grace Salvation, not works. In the NT Jesus already died and had been resurrected, thus pouring out His Grace and Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

Amen

 

[zeke25]

Yes you should remember that next time you do. Or is it that you do not sin???

PS again I say the only people that assume anyone would break teh law are those who claim too keep it. Find me one Christian who says you should deliberatly break he law. Love doesnt need the law that why tohose without Love do.??

But what we see is a lot of this.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

As for the LAW -

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Who are you married to the LAW or Christ??

Or as it says,

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Sometimes when Christ leaves the 99 to find the one, He finds the one doesnt want to be found..

Many are called and few are chosen

And now you can have it out with God.

In allHis Love

Amen

 

[Barrd]

But the words "believe" and "eternal life" are in the same sentence or passage if you will. The word "believe" might refer to Rom 10:9...

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

Those are good verses.
Here are some more good verses:


Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Jas 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[ATP]

Amen

The Grace covenant is actually considered the "better covenant". Christ has set us free Gal 5:1 NIV.

Zech 12:10 NIV "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Matt 5:17 NIV “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matt 26:28 NIV This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:16-17 NIV Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14 NIV For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

1 Cor 9:20-21 NIV To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

2 Cor 1:12 NIV Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God’s grace.

Gal 3:24-25 NIV So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Gal 5:1-6 NIV It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Eph 2:7-9 NIV in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Heb 7:18-19 NIV The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Heb 7:22 NIV Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

Heb 9:11-28 NIV - The Blood of Christ

Heb 10:1 NIV The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd,

The sabbath you are speaking of is not the same sabbath that the SDA preaches. My wife and I took a day of rest on Wednesday for years. A day of rest can be important, but it does not have to be Saturday. I am glad you benefited from your day of rest.

Your story is a great testimony, but it is not a testimony for sabbath-keeping. For example, tomorrow - Friday 8/21/15 - is God's designated weekly Sabbath day. The point being that the SDA doesn't use the right calendar and neither do any of us (I am an exception), but that shouldn't stop you from taking a day of rest if you feel that is what God has called you to. But the SDA preaches a false gospel and claims to be keeping God's sabbath day, and they don't even know when it is. They are hypocrites and liars. The SDA hates and preaches against the RCC, yet they use the RCC's corrupt calendar to find their false sabbath. Then in their pride they chide the Body of Christ for not following them into their apostasy.

I could give a similar testimony as your's for my wife of 22 years. Only her ex-husband was not killed. He was still left around so that he could threaten to burn her house down and all sorts of other harassments for years before she was delivered from it. These were not idle threats considering his gang activities. She couldn't work and she couldn't get state assistance due to the fraudulent activities of her ex. For years she went from house to house as a guest with her four skinny children or as a house sitter for a week, then she had to move on. Social security denied her disability claim. It was only God that kept her and her children from living on the street. I can empathize with your hard experiences.

So, let's not take the focus away from what we are discussing on this thread. We are discussing the heresy of sabbath-keeping, and the danger to one's eternal security by preaching it. Galatians 5:4 KJV, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you ar justified by the Law: ye are fallen from grace."

zeke25

I think I said a long time ago....I am not SDA. I never was. I'm just a plain ol' Christian lady, that's it.
However, I do keep a seventh day Sabbath. I do it every week to this day. I realize that the Jews kept a lunar calendar, while mine is solar, and that the days of the week are different, but I don't think that matters at all. It's still a seven-day count, however you look at it.
I believe that Christians are still to keep the Ten Commandments, but they needn't bother about the surrounding Mosaic law.

There is a difference...
God wrote the Ten Commandments Himself, on tablets of stone, showing their permanence.
Moses wrote "The Book of the Law".
The Ten Commandments on their tables of stone to show their permanence was placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, along with the golden pot of manna and Aaron's rod that budded.
Moses' book was laid alongside of the Ark, but not placed within it.

Jesus did say "If you love Me, keep My commandments." What commandments? In another place, He said "Love the Lord..." and "love thy neighbor" and added that "on these hang all the law and the prophets."
If you truly love God you will not have any other gods, or worship idols, or take His name in vain, and you will keep His Sabbath holy. If you love your neighbor you will not keep them from a Sabbath of rest, you will not disrespect your parents, you will give them honor, and you will care for them in their old age...you will not commit murder, you will not steal or spread filthy gossip, you will not commit adultery, and you will be happy when your neighbor prospers, not waste time in foolish jealousy over something he has that you don't.
In short, you will keep the Ten Commandments. Far from being a law of death, they are a law of love.
The death part is in us, that we just can't seem to keep God's law perfectly. (I don't know about you, but I've always had a problem with that covet part. So many things I wanted to give my children that other parents could, but I could not...and yes, God help me I was...and still am at times...jealous.)

I honestly do not see what the quarrel is about. Surely no one who has dedicated their life to following Jesus has any objection to the Ten Commandments? If so, which one is the problem? Which of them doesn't apply to us, do you think?

Perhaps this would be a good time to mention that I am not RCC, either. I don't really trust the Roman Catholic Church...sorry Zeke, nothing personal. I mean, I have a lot of great Catholic friends, they are wonderful people. I'm just not comfy with the idea of a pope...and I'm pretty sure Peter wouldn't be either. Christ doesn't need a "vicar on earth"...He is alive!

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd,

You are speaking from your emotions, not from the Word of God. Christ said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments."-John 14:15. This does not obligate us to keep the 10 Commandments under the Mosaic covenant. So, what commandments is Christ speaking of? You have the whole NT to explore for your answer. One place to start is Mt. 5, 6, 7.

If you're not feeling the love, then try checking in with the Holy Spirit before you push your enter button.

zeke25

There is no reason to be rude, Zeke.
If you don't agree with Phoneman, or with me, or with someone else, tell them that, and explain why.
If you can't come to a meeting of the minds, then simply leave that person alone. I have not heard Phoneman say one rude word to or about anyone else....and goodness knows, he's had plenty of reason to.
For instance, he didn't answer your attack on him...I'm afraid I would have come out, guns blazing. When your a 5'4", 127lb little blonde, with no husband to look after you and your brood...you kinda develop an attitude, you know?
Perhaps I can learn a bit about peace from Phoneman....maybe we all can.

 

[Barrd]

The Grace covenant is actually considered the "better covenant". Christ has set us free Gal 5:1 NIV.

Zech 12:10 NIV "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Matt 5:17 NIV “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matt 26:28 NIV This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:16-17 NIV Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14 NIV For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

1 Cor 9:20-21 NIV To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

2 Cor 1:12 NIV Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God’s grace.

Gal 3:24-25 NIV So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Gal 5:1-6 NIV It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Eph 2:7-9 NIV in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Heb 7:18-19 NIV The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Heb 7:22 NIV Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

Heb 9:11-28 NIV - The Blood of Christ

Heb 10:1 NIV The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

There is no doubt that we are under a "better Covenant."
But it is a Covenant...there are obligations on both sides.
Now, you're pretty good at looking at God's obligations according to this New Contract (yes, a "covenant" is a "contract"), but I haven't seen you mention anything about our own obligations.
Now, Jesus kept the law all of His life, didn't He?
Well, of course He did! Otherwise He would not have been a fit sacrifice for our sins. He is the Lamb of God, perfect, without spot or blemish or any such thing, Alelujah, Amen!
And the Apostles? They kept the law, both during their time with Jesus....and after His resurrection. There is not one single example of any of the Apostles, including Paul, saying anything like, "Well, now that Jesus has gone to His Father, we may lie, cheat, steal, and commit adultery", is there? Of course not!

We all know that doing those things that God, in the Ten Commandments "Thou shalt not" would be sin...don't we?
Those things are still sin under the New Covenant...the "better covenant"...the "Grace covenant". When you say that God has set us free, surely that does not mean that we are free to break these commandments! Rather, we are free from the law of death!

We really need to get these things straight...

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd,

The sabbath you are speaking of is not the same sabbath that the SDA preaches. My wife and I took a day of rest on Wednesday for years. A day of rest can be important, but it does not have to be Saturday. I am glad you benefited from your day of rest.

Your story is a great testimony, but it is not a testimony for sabbath-keeping. For example, tomorrow - Friday 8/21/15 - is God's designated weekly Sabbath day. The point being that the SDA doesn't use the right calendar and neither do any of us (I am an exception), but that shouldn't stop you from taking a day of rest if you feel that is what God has called you to. But the SDA preaches a false gospel and claims to be keeping God's sabbath day, and they don't even know when it is. They are hypocrites and liars. The SDA hates and preaches against the RCC, yet they use the RCC's corrupt calendar to find their false sabbath. Then in their pride they chide the Body of Christ for not following them into their apostasy.

I could give a similar testimony as your's for my wife of 22 years. Only her ex-husband was not killed. He was still left around so that he could threaten to burn her house down and all sorts of other harassments for years before she was delivered from it. These were not idle threats considering his gang activities. She couldn't work and she couldn't get state assistance due to the fraudulent activities of her ex. For years she went from house to house as a guest with her four skinny children or as a house sitter for a week, then she had to move on. Social security denied her disability claim. It was only God that kept her and her children from living on the street. I can empathize with your hard experiences.

So, let's not take the focus away from what we are discussing on this thread. We are discussing the heresy of sabbath-keeping, and the danger to one's eternal security by preaching it. Galatians 5:4 KJV, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you ar justified by the Law: ye are fallen from grace."

zeke25

I am very sorry to hear about your wife's troubles. From one woman to another, I offer her this, in the hope that it will make her smile. (It got a huge lopsided grin from me when I first heard it!):
Bah...MEN!
What do we need with them?
MENtal instability...
MENstruation...
MENopause...
All of our problems seem to begin with MEN!

Let your wife know that she has my love and my sympathy...and my prayers.

 

[ATP]

When you say that God has set us free, surely that does not mean that we are free to break these commandments! Rather, we are free from the law of death!

We really need to get these things straight...

I agree.

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd,

You are speaking from your emotions, not from the Word of God. Christ said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments."-John 14:15. This does not obligate us to keep the 10 Commandments under the Mosaic covenant. So, what commandments is Christ speaking of? You have the whole NT to explore for your answer. One place to start is Mt. 5, 6, 7.

If you're not feeling the love, then try checking in with the Holy Spirit before you push your enter button.

zeke25

Thank you, Zeke, for pointing me to The Sermon on the Mount...in fact the Beatitudes are among my very favorite scriptures.
They do not, however, show that Christ's followers do not keep the Ten Commandments, which we know they did...and do.

What I saw was you being incredibly rude to another user because he doesn't agree with you.
Not very Christ-like behavior...and not very loving.
Remember, this is the first post of yours I remember reading. My first impression of you was not very good, I'm afraid...I'm sure you aren't as horrible as you came across in that post. Are you?

Did you check with the Holy Spirit before you hit your enter button?

 

[Phoneman777]

Nothing in these scriptures mention losing your salvation if you disobey.

What about the parable of the Unmerciful Servant who was forgiven of his impossible debt (allegorical "sin debt" we all owe) and yet through continued sin, that forgiveness was withdrawn and he again fell under the original condemnation for which he was originally forgiven? THAT"S in Scripture.

 

[ATP]

What about the parable of the Unmerciful Servant who was forgiven of his impossible debt (allegorical "sin debt" we all owe) and yet through continued sin, that forgiveness was withdrawn and he again fell under the original condemnation for which he was originally forgiven? THAT"S in Scripture.

What about the words "believe and "eternal life" being in the same sentence?

 

[ATP]

ATP, I think your misunderstanding of the word "believe" has led you to OSAS. A man may "believe" his house in on fire, but if his belief is just merely a mental assent - and does not compel him to action - he will burn up with it.

In the same way, if we believe by faith that Jesus died and became our Savior then what follows after is that we must believe that He is Lord over us as well, and not we ourselves. The deadly mistake of OSAS is that provids a false means to allow Jesus' Saviorship to overshadow his Lordship.

But Rom 10:9 says if we believe, we are then saved. Saved once.

 

[ATP]

What about the parable of the Unmerciful Servant who was forgiven of his impossible debt (allegorical "sin debt" we all owe) and yet through continued sin, that forgiveness was withdrawn and he again fell under the original condemnation for which he was originally forgiven? THAT"S in Scripture.

You're basing your proof off a parable. That's like proving soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31 NIV.

Matt 18:21-35 NIV - The Unmerciful Servant - In this parable the unforgiving servant is sent to the torturers by the king (God) for his unwillingness to forgive others. In the broader context of understanding the law of love, and the immediate context of forgiveness, I think this means that if we are unwilling to love well and forgive others, God will “torture” us by using the devil at his disposal. I interpret torture as causing us to live and fail by our own efforts, to face our evil, recognize our sin and appreciate God’s forgiveness of us. Then we will in turn forgive others because we will see that we are just as bad as them and capable of doing the same thing they did to us.

This forgiveness is to be understood of averting calamities and judgments, likely to fall for his iniquities, which is sometimes the sense of this phrase: see 1 Kings 8:34 and so his being delivered to the tormentors may mean, his being distressed with an accusing guilty conscience, an harassing, vexing devil, many misfortunes of life, and temporal calamities. Though after all, this is not strictly to be applied to any particular case or person, but the scope of the parable is to be attended to; which is to enforce mutual forgiveness among men, from having received full and free pardon at the hands of God; and that without the former, there is little reason to expect the latter, as appears from what follows.

 

[Phoneman777]

What about the words "believe and "eternal life" being in the same sentence?

Well, I'm sure the Unmerciful Servant had "belief" that he was forgiven and "new life" in the forgiveness of his lord - but he despised that freedom - which was provided to him at such an immense cost to his lord - and chose to cast it far away from himself through indulging selfishness and sin. There was no OSAS for him, you can believe that.

 

[Phoneman777]

But Rom 10:9 says if we believe, we are then saved. Saved once.

If you choose to sin, you believe nothing, for if you really believed you are a new creature in Christ Jesus, you would believe you have the power to resist sin.