Sabbath-Keeping

[ATP]

Well, I'm sure the Unmerciful Servant had "belief" that he was forgiven and "new life" in the forgiveness of his lord - but he despised that freedom - which was provided to him at such an immense cost to his lord - and chose to cast it far away from himself through indulging selfishness and sin. There was no OSAS for him, you can believe that.

You are taking the parable out of context. Read post 1478. Rom 10:9 says if we believe, we are then saved. Saved once.

 

[ATP]

If you choose to sin, you believe nothing.

But we live in a fallen world Phoneman. We all have a sin nature, even you. Are you having trouble understanding this? I can try to help.

I can sin until my eyes turn red, but that won't make me forget my day of salvation. I will take that day to my grave.

He won't let me forget....2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

What is truth? Jesus is the truth! Through His Resurrection we are saved.

[SIZE=11pt]John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.[/SIZE]

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

 

[Phoneman777]

You're basing your proof off a parable. That's like proving soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31 NIV.

Matt 18:21-35 NIV - The Unmerciful Servant - In this parable the unforgiving servant is sent to the torturers by the king (God) for his unwillingness to forgive others. In the broader context of understanding the law of love, and the immediate context of forgiveness, I think this means that if we are unwilling to love well and forgive others, God will “torture” us by using the devil at his disposal. I interpret torture as causing us to live and fail by our own efforts, to face our evil, recognize our sin and appreciate God’s forgiveness of us. Then we will in turn forgive others because we will see that we are just as bad as them and capable of doing the same thing they did to us.

This forgiveness is to be understood of averting calamities and judgments, likely to fall for his iniquities, which is sometimes the sense of this phrase: see 1 Kings 8:34 and so his being delivered to the tormentors may mean, his being distressed with an accusing guilty conscience, an harassing, vexing devil, many misfortunes of life, and temporal calamities. Though after all, this is not strictly to be applied to any particular case or person, but the scope of the parable is to be attended to; which is to enforce mutual forgiveness among men, from having received full and free pardon at the hands of God; and that without the former, there is little reason to expect the latter, as appears from what follows.

Wrong, the false doctrine of Eternal Torment is based on the UNINTERPRETED parable of Luke 16.
I am refuting OSAS on the basis of a correctly INTERPRETED parable of Matthew 18:23-35 KJV, which is completely acceptable hermeneutics. Here's the interpretation:

The King - The Lord God
The Unmerciful Servant - You and I
Ten Thousand Talent Debt - Our debt of sin which we have no hope to repay
The Unmerciful Servant's pathetic plea to the King - Our desperate plea for forgiveness from God
The King's Debt Forgiveness - Salvation in Christ Jesus
The Unmerciful Servant's refusal to act in accordance with the character of his King - Christians who return to a life of sin
The King's reinstatement of the Unmerciful Servant's Impossible Debt - Christians who, by their own actions, despise the Lord's gift of salvation and cast it far from them and wind up condemned once again as "ye that work iniquity."

 

[Phoneman777]

You are taking the parable out of context. Read post 1478. Rom 10:9 says if we believe, we are then saved. Saved once.

No, you are refusing to interpret the parable for what it is: a message to those who are forgiven that if they refuse to manifest the beneficent character of the Lord in their own lives through the indwelling power of Christ, they will be cast away and eternally lost. Submit to Christ's authority alone and live.

 

[ATP]

Wrong, the false doctrine of Eternal Torment is based on the UNINTERPRETED parable of Luke 16.
I am refuting OSAS on the basis of a correctly INTERPRETED parable of Matthew 18:23-35 KJV, which is completely acceptable hermeneutics.

Brother, regardless of what you're refuting that doesn't change the definition of what a parable is.

 

[Phoneman777]

But we live in a fallen world Phoneman. We all have a sin nature, even you. Are you having trouble understanding this? I can try to help.

I can sin until my eyes turn red, but that won't make me forget my day of salvation. I will take that day to my grave.

He won't let me forget....2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

What is truth? Jesus is the truth! Through His Resurrection we are saved.

[SIZE=11pt]John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.[/SIZE]

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Daniel lived in a totally pagan Medo Persia, but chose to be mauled to death by hungry lions rather than disobey the commandments. Sin is always a choice, ATP, choose ye this day.

BTW, that talk about "..you have a sin nature" is garbage. You like the word "believe" a lot, so why don't you "believe" " old things like your old character are passed away, behold all things are made new"???

 

[Phoneman777]

Brother, regardless of what you're refuting that doesn't change the definition of what a parable is.

Who's changing definitions? A parable must be interpreted to get the truth that it is intended to teach. Not interpreting the Rich Man and Lazarus in order to teach Eternal Torment is error.

Correctly interpreting the parable of the Unmerciful Servant to soundly teach truth that soundly refutes OSAS is perfectly acceptable, though not to a person who is a die hard OSAS believer.

 

[ATP]

Who's changing definitions? A parable must be interpreted to get the truth that it is intended to teach. Not interpreting the Rich Man and Lazarus in order to teach Eternal Torment is error.

Correctly interpreting the parable of the Unmerciful Servant to soundly teach truth that soundly refutes OSAS is perfectly acceptable, though not to a person who is a die hard OSAS believer.

What is the "truth" Phoneman?

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

 

[Phoneman777]

What is the "truth" Phoneman?

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Please read ALL the Bible, not just the parts that appeal to you:

"Thy LAW is truth" Psalms 119:142 KJV

"All Thy COMMANDMENTS are truth." Psalms 119:151 KJV

Anyone who breaks the commandments doesn't have one bit of truth living in them.

 

[ATP]

Please read ALL the Bible, not just the parts that appeal to you:

"Thy LAW is truth" Psalms 119:142 KJV

"All Thy COMMANDMENTS are truth." Psalms 119:151 KJV

Anyone who breaks the commandments doesn't have one bit of truth living in them.

That's all well and good, but why not try posting in the NT after Christ resurrection. If you're having trouble I can help you.

 

[Phoneman777]

That's all well and good, but why not try posting in the NT after Christ resurrection. If you're having trouble I can help you.

I find it interesting that Jesus was able to teach everything necessary for salvation from the OT, but somehow that's no longer good enough today.

BTW, Jesus is the God of the OT, so are you saying that what He told the NT writers to preach contradicts what He told the OT writers?

 

[Phoneman777]

That's all well and good, but why not try posting in the NT after Christ resurrection. If you're having trouble I can help you.

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His COMMANDMENTS is a liar and the TRUTH is not in him."

Isn't it amazing how both the OT and NT connects the "Truth" with "keeping the commandments"??? Yes, both the OT and NT are one harmonious whole if we are willing to see that.

 

[ATP]

I find it interesting that Jesus was able to teach everything necessary for salvation from the OT, but somehow that's no longer good enough today.

Well, we can respect the law and grace at the same time, but Grace trumps the law every time.

You don't repent because of your works. You repent because of God's kindness towards you.

The message of truth? What is that?

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

 

[ATP]

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His COMMANDMENTS is a liar and the TRUTH is not in him."

Isn't it amazing how both the OT and NT connects the "Truth" with "keeping the commandments"??? Yes, both the OT and NT are one harmonious whole if we are willing to see that.

But the commandments changed after Jesus died. What did they change to?

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, we can respect the law and grace at the same time, but Grace trumps the law every time.

You don't repent because of your works. You repent because of God's kindness towards you.

The message of truth? What is that?

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Bro, the idea that "grace trumps the law" is FALSE because what you are saying is that Jesus died to give us a license to break the law, yet He will tell those who think they are saved but refuse to obey to "depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[Phoneman777]

But the commandments changed after Jesus died. What did they change to?

They did? Is it now OK to kill, steal, lie, worship Satan, or sleep with your wife?

 

[Phoneman777]

They did? Is it now OK to kill, steal, lie, worship Satan, or sleep with your wife?

"Not one jot or tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled."
"My covenant will I not break nor ALTER the thing that is gone from My lips." Psalms 89:34 KJV (BTW, that's talking about the Ten Commandment covenant that God spoke at Sinai)

 

[Phoneman777]

But the commandments changed after Jesus died. What did they change to?

"Not one jot or tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled."
"My covenant will I not break nor ALTER the thing that is gone from My lips." Psalms 89:34 KJV (BTW, that's talking about the Ten Commandment covenant that God spoke at Sinai)

 

[ATP]

Bro, the idea that "grace trumps the law" is FALSE because what you are saying is that Jesus died to give us a license to break the law and will tell those who think they are saved but refuse to obey to "depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

No bro, God convicts the child who disobeys. He doesn't cast them out of the family after adoption.

Even the Holy Spirit testifies that we are His. Wow...

Rom 8:15-17 NIV The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Eph 1:4-5 NIV For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

They did? Is it now OK to kill, steal, lie, worship Satan, or sleep with your wife?

Gal 5:6 NIV For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

 

[Phoneman777]

No bro, God convicts the child who disobeys. He doesn't cast them out of the family after adoption.

Even the Holy Spirit testifies that we are His. Wow...

Rom 8:15-17 NIV The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Eph 1:4-5 NIV For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.


Gal 5:6 NIV For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

David, who looked by faith forward to Calvary, prayed, "CAST ME NOT AWAY from Thy presence and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me." What makes you think that circumstances are different for we who look back in faith to Calvary?