SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY

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Spyder

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The gospel is all about Jesus that is the good news..we can’t be Born Again without God bringing us to believe in Jesus ,before that we are brought to repentance/ Godly sorrow by God, Biblical...you deny that...with out believing in Jesus, repentance/ Godly sorrow, forgiveness of sins by God...therefore you can’t be Born Again....you deny that we must be Born Of the Spirit.....you say you were Born Again at birth, that is not Gods truth...that is your truth, which has no standing.

The word of God does not say that you must read a Bible to be Born of the Spirit...

Plus if you think that you say...you were Born of the Spirit at birth, then water baptised at age 7...is not biblical..you can’t prove that you are Born Again..no more than I can.

But, you can see/ hear the Spirit talking to us through each other’s words.

You lack that as does @Titus ...because you both speak from the intellect/ flesh...very noticeable and you never answer biblical questions..never!
I am way late into this thread, so please excuse my interruption. I want to comment on this post.

It is certainly true that God can call us to believe in His Son however He wants to do it. We do not have to read a bible to believe in Jesus. We do have to learn about Him and it happened to thousands after Pentecost. They all were subsequently baptized into the New Covenant. That's how we do it as well.

However, at the baptism we receive forgiveness of sins and the indwelling of God's spirit. We are raised "a new creature" in Christ.

I do hope that people realize that the term give here that translators use for "born" is actually "generated." Typically, folks call that born again. However, Paul speaks of a different birth - the time we are born with a glorified body that is "incorruptible." Unless we are born in that body, we cannot see God's kingdom. The "rebirth" we have now still leaves us traveling through this world with both our corrupted flesh which wages war with the spirit in us.

There are much better times ahead for those whose indwelling spirit overcomes our flesh until the end.
 

Ritajanice

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t is certainly true that God can call us to believe in His Son however He wants to do it. We do not have to read a bible to believe in Jesus. We do have to learn about Him and it happened to thousands after Pentecost. They all were subsequently baptized into the New Covenant. That's how we do it as well
Amen!!...we have been Born Again of incorruptible seed...which liveth and abideth forever.

Which means we will never die in spirit.

If we don’t read Gods word, we will never grow or mature in his word...we need that spiritual food from God, as we have been Born of the Spirit..which is the Living spiritual rebirth.

This is what the other two members have great difficulty understanding I’m afraid....they think God is a book,imo.
we are his Born Again children in Spirit, we belong to him...which is the biggest Honour and privilege anyone can receive.

Mind blowing experience, for me anyway!
 

Ritajanice

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we have now still leaves us traveling through this world with both our corrupted flesh which wages war with the spirit in us.
Corrupted flesh?

We’re not in the flesh were in the Spirit?

It’s our old mindset that’s at war with the Spirit of God..that’s my opinion and I’m certainly not forcing it on to you...see scripture regarding the renewing of our minds...oh boy have struggled with that and still do...

Romans


Previous Chapter

Rom.8​

[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 
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Spyder

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Amen!!...we have been Born Again of incorruptible seed...which liveth and abideth forever.

Which means we will never die in spirit.

If we don’t read Gods word, we will never grow or mature in his word...we need that spiritual food from God, as we have been Born of the Spirit..which is the Living spiritual rebirth.

This is what the other two members have great difficulty understanding I’m afraid....they think God is a book,imo.
we are his Born Again children in Spirit, we belong to him...which is the biggest Honour and privilege anyone can receive.

Mind blowing experience, for me anyway!
I enjoy your exuberance in this. While I know that a great many believe that they are already "born again." There are many passages that tell us that Jesus will come a collect us to go to the Kingdom of God (which will be the New Earth eventually). That incorruptible body will be our actual "new birth." As long as we are in THIS body, we are still corruptible.
 

Ritajanice

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I enjoy your exuberance in this. While I know that a great many believe that they are already "born again." There are many passages that tell us that Jesus will come a collect us to go to the Kingdom of God (which will be the New Earth eventually). That incorruptible body will be our actual "new birth." As long as we are in THIS body, we are still corruptible.
Not quite understanding here,...I have been Born Again, of course I can’t prove it, no one can.

I believe Gods word when he says we are Born Again of imperishable seed....the seed is the Holy Spirit..that testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, that’s how I knew in my spirit that I was Born Again, as Gods word is Alive and Active...of course there was the process of becoming Born of the Spirit, I’ve covered that.


Romans 8​






1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are inChrist Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made mefree from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, andfor sin,[a] condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnallyhttps://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/romans/8.html#references-footnotes minded is death; but to be spirituallyminded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal[c] mind is enmity against God: for it is notsubject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot* please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; butthe Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwellin you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quickenyour mortal bodies by[d] his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore*, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to liveafter the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sonsof God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God*, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be alsoglorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are notworthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed inus.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, butby reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope:for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patiencewait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we knownot what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itselfmaketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because[e] he maketh intercession for the saintsaccording to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstbornamong many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: andwhom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, whocan be against us?
32 He that* spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for usall, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is Godthat justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather*, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who alsomaketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, orperil, or sword?
36 As it is written*, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors throughhim that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels,nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus ourLord.

Every one is at very different levels of understanding and definitely on different levels of understanding God given faith..that was the gift I received as a Born Again a manifestation of the Spirit...Faith is manifested in the heart of Gods child, where it will flourish and grow....why ,because God planted that seed of faith via his Living word the Holy Spirit..my testimony ,thoughts and belief .
 
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Johann

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Your last three posts to me, post # 517, 518, 519
These posts contain zero Scriptural refutation.
Stop wasting my time with your opinions.

1Peter 4:11,
- If anyone speaks let him speak as the oracles of God
Don't waste your precious time on him dear brother-
 
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Spyder

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Not quite understanding here,...I have been Born Again, of course I can’t prove it, no one can.

I believe Gods word when he says we are Born Again of imperishable seed....the seed is the Holy Spirit..that testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, that’s how I knew in my spirit that I was Born Again, as Gods word is Alive and Active...of course there was the process of becoming Born of the Spirit, I’ve covered that.
Romans 8

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


Every one is at very different levels of understanding and definitely on different levels of understanding God given faith..that was the gift I received as a Born Again a manifestation of the Spirit...Faith is manifested in the heart of Gods child, where it will flourish and grow....why ,because God planted that seed of faith via his Living word the Holy Spirit..my testimony ,thoughts and belief .
Yes, and it takes some examination of the details.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This is of the same tense as:

1 Co 15:1–2 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain

We cannot finish being saved until we receive our glorified bodies. We do receive "the helper" that Jesus promised - God's spirit. He helps us to live our lives according to His words. It is a journey. God's spirit is incorruptible but out body is not. While walking on this earth, we are "being saved" as we live under the guidance of God's spirit. In His spirit, there is life.

In verse 24 of Romans 8, Paul writes "why does he yet hope for?" For us, verse 25 says that we with patience wait for it. We are waiting to be born again into the Kingdom of God.

As always, I hope this causes prayerful consideration. Thanks for asking.
 
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Ritajanice

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Yes, and it takes some examination of the details.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This is of the same tense as:

1 Co 15:1–2 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain

We cannot finish being saved until we receive our glorified bodies. We do receive "the helper" that Jesus promised - God's spirit. He helps us to live our lives according to His words. It is a journey. God's spirit is incorruptible but out body is not. While walking on this earth, we are "being saved" as we live under the guidance of God's spirit. In His spirit, there is life.

In verse 24 of Romans 8, Paul writes "why does he yet hope for?" For us, verse 25 says that we with patience wait for it. We are waiting to be born again into the Kingdom of God.

As always, I hope this causes prayerful consideration. Thanks for asking.
Such a Blessing speaking with you, Gods word makes so much sense to me through you...

I will reread your words and God wills, will get back to you.

Oops, I just got a word @Spyder ..we don’t need to hold fast to Gods word as he keeps us holding fast to his word, because we have been Born Of The Spirit..that is Gods Living word.

The Holy Spirit, his “ Living “ word, has penetrated deep into our heart, Brother, as we grow and mature in the Spirit....as it’s the role of the Spirit to make us into the image of Jesus.

13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.
15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.
16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work
 
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Johann

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I'll try to respond to the topic of when the church began, when I get the time.
Take care
I will leave this for you brother-

MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE NOT SAVED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO GOD’S PURPOSE AND GRACE WHICH WAS GIVEN THEM IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. II Timothy 1:9.

THIS IS CALLED GOD’S ETERNAL PURPOSE IN CHRIST. THIS PURPOSE WAS IN GOD’S MIND AND GOD’S PLAN AGES BEFORE HE MADE HIS COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM.

BUT ONE GREAT QUESTION, WHICH PERHAPS REMAINS UNANSWERED IN THE MINDS OF MOST CHURCH-MEMBERS, IS: “WHEN DID THE BODY OF CHRIST BEGIN HISTORICALLY?

THE POSTMILLENARIAN TEACHES THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF GOD AND ISRAEL ARE ALL THE SAME CHURCH IN DIFFERENT STAGES.

SOME PREMILLENARIANS ARE SURE THE BODY BEGAN WHEN CHRIST BREATHED UPON HIS APOSTLES. John 20:22.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS TEACH THAT THE CHURCH BEGAN ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS SAY, AFTER THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER OF ACTS.

AND STILL OTHERS SAY, AFTER THE WORDS OF PAUL RECORDED IN THE CLOSE OF ACTS, IN ACTS 28:25 to 28.

WHAT DO YOU SAY? AND WHAT IS YOUR SCRIPTURAL PROOF?

Shalom brother.
J.
 

Titus

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I will leave this for you brother-

MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE NOT SAVED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO GOD’S PURPOSE AND GRACE WHICH WAS GIVEN THEM IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. II Timothy 1:9.

THIS IS CALLED GOD’S ETERNAL PURPOSE IN CHRIST. THIS PURPOSE WAS IN GOD’S MIND AND GOD’S PLAN AGES BEFORE HE MADE HIS COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM.

BUT ONE GREAT QUESTION, WHICH PERHAPS REMAINS UNANSWERED IN THE MINDS OF MOST CHURCH-MEMBERS, IS: “WHEN DID THE BODY OF CHRIST BEGIN HISTORICALLY?

THE POSTMILLENARIAN
TEACHES THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF GOD AND ISRAEL ARE ALL THE SAME CHURCH IN DIFFERENT STAGES.

SOME PREMILLENARIANS ARE SURE THE BODY BEGAN WHEN CHRIST BREATHED UPON HIS APOSTLES. John 20:22.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS TEACH THAT THE CHURCH BEGAN ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS SAY, AFTER THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER OF ACTS.

AND STILL OTHERS SAY, AFTER THE WORDS OF PAUL RECORDED IN THE CLOSE OF ACTS, IN ACTS 28:25 to 28.


WHAT DO YOU SAY? AND WHAT IS YOUR SCRIPTURAL PROOF?

Shalom brother.
J.
They're all wrong, amillennial is correct. But I should say the correct terminology is amillennial.
The day of penetcost is correct.

Now I don't know what what your beliefs are on the kingdom and the church.
I believe they are the same and can be used interchangeably in passages that mention one or the other.

If you do not hold that the kingdom of God is the church of God I probably wont be convincing to you.
But I'll pray you will see the truth.

First proof the kingdom and the church are one in the same is,
Matthew 16:18-19,
- and I say to you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.

- and I will give you the keys of the  kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven

In these two verses Jesus uses the church and the kingdom interchangeably
Jesus tells Peter that the keys of the kingdom and those same exact keys are the keys to the church.
These keys both loose and bind what is on earth, church.
And what is in heaven Kingdom.

Keys fit in only one lock.
The church keys fit the kingdom.
And the Kingdom keys fit the church.

I believe Jesus is teaching us they are one in the same.
So, I will be using kingdom verses that I believe can be used for the church.

Jesus says the church will come in the days of those whom He taught during His earthly ministry.
Mark 9:1,
- and Jesus said to them, Assuredly I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with  power

Here we learn Jesus proclaims the kingdom is coming in these folks lifetimes here on earth.
This disproves the rapture doctrine or premillinalism for the kingdom has already come.

- will not taste death This means physical death,
Hebrews 2:9,
- but we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor that He by the grace of God might taste death for everyone

If the kingdom has not yet come them those folks Jesus was speaking to in Mark 9:1 are still alive!!!

Now the manner in which the church will come is,
Mark 9:1,
- not taste death till the see the kingdom of God present with power

The kingdom/church will come with power!!!

Luke 24:49,
- behold I send the Promise of My Father upon you(apostles)
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with  power from on high

Acts 1:8,
- but you(apostles) shall receive  power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth

Here they all are in Jerusalem on pentecost and the power is going to be poured out on them on this day when Jesus baptizes them with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:1-2,
- when the day of Penetcost had fully come they were all with one accord
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled the whole house where they were sitting....
- and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance and there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews devout men from every nation

The kingdom/church comes with power in Jerusalem on the day of penetcost.
This is the day the church of Christ is established.

The church/kingdom is a spiritual kingdom not physical.
That means the church is also a spiritual church not secular like the catholic church.

John 13:36,
- Jesus answered My kingdom is not of this world...

Those born into the church are born into spiritually not physically,
Acts 2:47,
- praising God and having favor with all the people and the Lord added to the  church daily those who are being saved

Since God adds us to the church. It must be a spiritual church. Just as the kingdom is a spiritual kingdom.
Colossians 1:13,
- God has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love

The kingdom is here therefore the church is here and vice versa.
John proclaimed he was already in the kingdom in Revelation 1:9,

- I John both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ I was in the Spirit on the Lords day...

Notice John says he is in tribulation and the kingdom on the island of Patmos on the Lords day.

The Lords day is when the church meets together to worship God.

Therefore John on the island of Patmos was in the kingdom on the Lords day with the church!!!
 

Titus

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I will leave this for you brother-

MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE NOT SAVED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO GOD’S PURPOSE AND GRACE WHICH WAS GIVEN THEM IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. II Timothy 1:9.

THIS IS CALLED GOD’S ETERNAL PURPOSE IN CHRIST. THIS PURPOSE WAS IN GOD’S MIND AND GOD’S PLAN AGES BEFORE HE MADE HIS COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM.

BUT ONE GREAT QUESTION, WHICH PERHAPS REMAINS UNANSWERED IN THE MINDS OF MOST CHURCH-MEMBERS, IS: “WHEN DID THE BODY OF CHRIST BEGIN HISTORICALLY?

THE POSTMILLENARIAN
TEACHES THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF GOD AND ISRAEL ARE ALL THE SAME CHURCH IN DIFFERENT STAGES.

SOME PREMILLENARIANS ARE SURE THE BODY BEGAN WHEN CHRIST BREATHED UPON HIS APOSTLES. John 20:22.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS TEACH THAT THE CHURCH BEGAN ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS SAY, AFTER THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER OF ACTS.

AND STILL OTHERS SAY, AFTER THE WORDS OF PAUL RECORDED IN THE CLOSE OF ACTS, IN ACTS 28:25 to 28.


WHAT DO YOU SAY? AND WHAT IS YOUR SCRIPTURAL PROOF?

Shalom brother.
J.
They're all wrong, amillennial is correct. But I should say the correct terminology is amillennial.
The day of penetcost is correct.

Now I don't know what what your beliefs are on the kingdom and the church.
I believe they are the same and can be used interchangeably in passages that mention one or the other.

If you do not hold that the kingdom of God is the church of God I probably wont be convincing to you.
But I'll pray you will see the truth.

First proof the kingdom and the church are one in the same is,
Matthew 16:18-19,
- and I say to you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.

- and I will give you the keys of the  kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven

In these two verses Jesus uses the church and the kingdom interchangeably
Jesus tells Peter that the keys of the kingdom and those same exact keys are the keys to the church.
These keys both loose and bind what is on earth, church.
And what is in heaven Kingdom.

Keys fit in only one lock.
The church keys fit the kingdom.
And the Kingdom keys fit the church.

I believe Jesus is teaching us they are one in the same.
So, I will be using kingdom verses that I believe can be used for the church.

Jesus says the church will come in the days of those whom He taught during His earthly ministry.
Mark 9:1,
- and Jesus said to them, Assuredly I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with  power

Here we learn Jesus proclaims the kingdom is coming in these folks lifetimes here on earth.
This disproves the rapture doctrine or premillinalism for the kingdom has already come.

- will not taste death This means physical death,
Hebrews 2:9,
- but we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor that He by the grace of God might taste death for everyone

If the kingdom has not yet come them those folks Jesus was speaking to in Mark 9:1 are still alive!!!

Now the manner in which the church will come is,
Mark 9:1,
- not taste death till the see the kingdom of God present with power

The kingdom/church will come with power!!!

Luke 24:49,
- behold I send the Promise of My Father upon you(apostles)
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with  power from on high

Acts 1:8,
- but you(apostles) shall receive  power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth

Here they all are in Jerusalem on pentecost and the power is going to be poured out on them on this day when Jesus baptizes them with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:1-2,
- when the day of Penetcost had fully come they were all with one accord
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled the whole house where they were sitting....
- and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance and there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews devout men from every nation

The kingdom/church comes with power in Jerusalem on the day of penetcost.
This is the day the church of Christ is established.

The church/kingdom is a spiritual kingdom not physical.
That means the church is also a spiritual church not secular like the catholic church.

John 13:36,
- Jesus answered My kingdom is not of this world...

Those born into the church are born into spiritually not physically,
Acts 2:47,
- praising God and having favor with all the people and the Lord added to the  church daily those who are being saved

Since God adds us to the church. It must be a spiritual church. Just as the kingdom is a spiritual kingdom.
 

Johann

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Now I don't know what what your beliefs are on the kingdom and the church.
I believe they are the same and can be used interchangeably in passages that mention one or the other.
Tell me what you think brother-

The phrase “kingdom of heaven” is only found in the book of Matthew, though it is described all throughout the scriptures to Israel.

Luke uses the phrase “kingdom of God” the most. He uses it primarily to describe Israel’s promised kingdom, but sometimes in Acts referring to what Paul taught.

Paul uses the phrase “kingdom of God” eight times in his epistles and never once uses it to describe the earthly kingdom to Israel.

More Kingdoms …


There are more kingdom phrases than just “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God”. Paul uses the phrases “kingdom of his dear Son”, “kingdom of Christ”, and “heavenly kingdom” which are not found anywhere else in the Bible.

They are strictly Pauline because the main subject of the revelation given to Paul was not about the earthly kingdom discussed in Matthew or Luke. Neither was it about Israel and the fulfillment of their scriptures.

It was a mystery of Christ about those who would sit in heavenly places.

“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ” – Eph 3:4
In this mystery was defined a new creature called the Church, which is his body.

“And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.” – Eph 1:22-23


The Church and Kingdom are Different

The church is not a kingdom or a nation. Being seated in heavenly places is not the kingdom of heaven come to earth (Eph 2:6, Mat 6:10).

People will enter into the kingdom. This language is not used when talking about the Church.

The kingdom is a dominion; the Church is a body.

The kingdom is the subject of prophesy; the Church is not.

The kingdom will be on earth; the Church is forever in heaven.

The kingdom has gates, walls, and mansions. The Church is a spiritual union without the rudiments of the world (Col 2:10, 20).

Same Phrase, Different Meanings


The phrase “kingdom of God” is used by Matthew, Luke, and Paul.

In Matthew we learn the “kingdom of God” can refer to the physical, literal, earthly kingdom promised to Israel.

In Luke we learn it can also speak to the spiritual principles in that kingdom.

With Paul we learn it can also refer to the universal spiritual reign of God which includes all dominions and principalities.

What does this mean? That the same phrase, “kingdom of God” or “kingdom” can have different uses and different meanings, in different contexts.

For this reason, Paul says we have been translated into the kingdom of his dear Son placing the Church also under the universal dominion of Christ (Col 1:13-18). Being in Christ we are under God’s rule (1 Cor 10:3).

All Things in Christ

Everyone in Christ will be under God’s authority in his eternal reign according to Ephesians 1:10. Some will be on earth, some will be in heaven.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:” – Eph 1:10
The Church will be in heaven having nothing to do with the earth and the things to come here. The kingdom is never the same as the Church.

People struggle with the difference between the “kingdom of heaven” and the “kingdom of God” in the Bible. The answer is in the context of what was prophesied and what was a mystery. If you do not rightly divide, you will get it wrong.

It would be better to find the dividing line between prophecy and mystery than to force a separation between two kingdom phrases used in Jesus’ earthly ministry that may not be as clear as some dispensationalists would like.



Related Posts:
- Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God
- Paul Taught the Kingdom of God
- The Mysteries of the Kingdom
- Gospel of the Kingdom vs. Gospel of the Grace of God
- The Kingdom Within You
- An Unfulfilled Kingdom

I'll leave a link-if you are interested.



1706984923379.png

God bless.
Johann.
 
Last edited:

Titus

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Tell me what you think brother-

The phrase “kingdom of heaven” is only found in the book of Matthew, though it is described all throughout the scriptures to Israel.

Luke uses the phrase “kingdom of God” the most. He uses it primarily to describe Israel’s promised kingdom, but sometimes in Acts referring to what Paul taught.

Paul uses the phrase “kingdom of God” eight times in his epistles and never once uses it to describe the earthly kingdom to Israel.

More Kingdoms …


There are more kingdom phrases than just “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God”. Paul uses the phrases “kingdom of his dear Son”, “kingdom of Christ”, and “heavenly kingdom” which are not found anywhere else in the Bible.

They are strictly Pauline because the main subject of the revelation given to Paul was not about the earthly kingdom discussed in Matthew or Luke. Neither was it about Israel and the fulfillment of their scriptures.

It was a mystery of Christ about those who would sit in heavenly places.

“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ” – Eph 3:4
In this mystery was defined a new creature called the Church, which is his body.

“And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.” – Eph 1:22-23


The Church and Kingdom are Different

The church is not a kingdom or a nation. Being seated in heavenly places is not the kingdom of heaven come to earth (Eph 2:6, Mat 6:10).

People will enter into the kingdom. This language is not used when talking about the Church.

The kingdom is a dominion; the Church is a body.

The kingdom is the subject of prophesy; the Church is not.

The kingdom will be on earth; the Church is forever in heaven.

The kingdom has gates, walls, and mansions. The Church is a spiritual union without the rudiments of the world (Col 2:10, 20).

Same Phrase, Different Meanings


The phrase “kingdom of God” is used by Matthew, Luke, and Paul.

In Matthew we learn the “kingdom of God” can refer to the physical, literal, earthly kingdom promised to Israel.

In Luke we learn it can also speak to the spiritual principles in that kingdom.

With Paul we learn it can also refer to the universal spiritual reign of God which includes all dominions and principalities.

What does this mean? That the same phrase, “kingdom of God” or “kingdom” can have different uses and different meanings, in different contexts.

For this reason, Paul says we have been translated into the kingdom of his dear Son placing the Church also under the universal dominion of Christ (Col 1:13-18). Being in Christ we are under God’s rule (1 Cor 10:3).

All Things in Christ

Everyone in Christ will be under God’s authority in his eternal reign according to Ephesians 1:10. Some will be on earth, some will be in heaven.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:” – Eph 1:10
The Church will be in heaven having nothing to do with the earth and the things to come here. The kingdom is never the same as the Church.

People struggle with the difference between the “kingdom of heaven” and the “kingdom of God” in the Bible. The answer is in the context of what was prophesied and what was a mystery. If you do not rightly divide, you will get it wrong.

It would be better to find the dividing line between prophecy and mystery than to force a separation between two kingdom phrases used in Jesus’ earthly ministry that may not be as clear as some dispensationalists would like.



Related Posts:
- Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God
- Paul Taught the Kingdom of God
- The Mysteries of the Kingdom
- Gospel of the Kingdom vs. Gospel of the Grace of God
- The Kingdom Within You
- An Unfulfilled Kingdom

I'll leave a link-if you are interested.



View attachment 41032

God bless.
Johann.
How can the church keys fit the kingdom in heaven and the kingdom keys fit the church on earth if they are two separate godly organizations?

Jesus made it clear the kingdom He was referring to in Mark 9:1 was to come in the lifetime of those standing with Him.
That means it cannot be the Jewish kingdom that was already established.
It is a kingdom that will come shortly in the context.
The church had not yet come also.
So the church is the kingdom Christ is teaching will come before these people die.

Notice God had not added anyone to the church until Acts chapter 2.
This is the first time the Bible teaches people were added to the church.
Also the power coming from the kingdom would occur in the last days.
The last days began at the beginning of the Christian era.
No one of Jesus' disciples were called christisns until after Acts 2 when the power of the Holy Spirit was poured out.

Acts 2:17,
- and it shall come to pass in the last days says God,
That I will pour out My Spirit on alll flesh....
And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved

Christ church began in the last days. The church is a Christian organization. No church was Christian before the last days began on pentecost.
No Jewish disciple of Christ was added to the church during Jesus' earthly ministry. Those days were before the last days began.
Jews were only in the Jewish earthly kingdom that was destroyed later in ad 70.
 

Johann

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How can the church keys fit the kingdom in heaven and the kingdom keys fit the church on earth if they are two separate godly organizations?

Jesus made it clear the kingdom He was referring to in Mark 9:1 was to come in the lifetime of those standing with Him.
That means it cannot be the Jewish kingdom that was already established.
It is a kingdom that will come shortly in the context.
The church had not yet come also.
So the church is the kingdom Christ is teaching will come before these people die.

Notice God had not added anyone to the church until Acts chapter 2.
This is the first time the Bible teaches people were added to the church.
Also the power coming from the kingdom would occur in the last days.
The last days began at the beginning of the Christian era.
No one of Jesus' disciples were called christisns until after Acts 2 when the power of the Holy Spirit was poured out.

Acts 2:17,
- and it shall come to pass in the last days says God,
That I will pour out My Spirit on alll flesh....
And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved

Christ church began in the last days. The church is a Christian organization. No church was Christian before the last days began on pentecost.
No Jewish disciple of Christ was added to the church during Jesus' earthly ministry. Those days were before the last days began.
Jews were only in the Jewish earthly kingdom that was destroyed later in ad 70.
Deep subject-so I will forbear in asking further questions brother.
J.
 
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Titus

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The church is not a kingdom or a nation
All kingdoms are called kingdoms because they have Kings.
Who is the Head of the church?
Who has ALL authority over the church?

Colossians 1:18,
- and Jesus is the  Head of the body, the church

Matthew 28:18,
- ALL AUTHORITY has been given to Me in heaven and on earth

Jesus is our Savior, Lord and King
 

Johann

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Acts 2:17,
- and it shall come to pass in the last days says God,
That I will pour out My Spirit on alll flesh....
PENTECOST—THE MILLENNIUM
AND
THE BODY OF CHRIST.
First, let us carefully note two statements of the Apostle Paul: "But contrariwise, when
they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the
circumcision was unto Peter," Galatians 2:7. For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ
for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to
youward," Ephesians 3:2.

There are many zealous religious people, among whom are a number of splendid spiritual
saints, who have formulated their creeds and adopted their religious programs on the assumption
that Israel had been set aside "when the day of Pentecost was fully come" (Acts 2:1), and that the
dispensation of the grace of God, mentioned in Ephesians 3:1 to 9, began the day that Peter and
the Eleven stood up in Jerusalem.

They speak much of the "Apostolic Church," "the Pentecostal Church," but never of the
"Joint-Body" of Ephesians 3:6, the Church of the Mystery," "the One New Man" of Ephesians
2:15, "the Body which is the fulness of Christ." Ephesians 1:19 to 22, They never give any
Scriptural proof that the Pentecostal Church of Acts Two is identical with "the Church of the
Mystery ,"


In referring to the Body of Christ, and God's spiritual program under the dispensation of
grace, Paul mentions the Mystery in Ephesians and Colossians. It should be obvious to any
intelligent student of the Scriptures that anything that has to do with "the Pentecostal
dispensation" has nothing to do with "the dispensation of the Mystery."

Believers are to "make
all men see what is the dispensation of the Mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath
been hid in God;" but those who begin the dispensation of the "Secret" with Peter and the
Pentecost of Acts Two, never attempt to obey Ephesians 3:9.

"The dispensation of the Mystery" is "Gentilish." Ephesians 3:1, 2 and 8. Pentecost is
Israelitish, There can be no genuine Pentecost without the Jewish priests, the Jewish temple, the
Jewish city, and the Jewish people.


The Gentiles in the day of grace have no Pentecost.

About twenty-five years after Peter and the Eleven, in Jerusalem, on the day of Pentecost,
addressed devout Jews from every nation under heaven, Paul said, "I will tarry at Ephesus until
Pentecost." I Corinthians 16:8, In Acts 20:16 are words concerning Paul that will throw light on
his statements to the Corinthians: "For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus because he would
not spend the time in Asia, for he hasted, if it were possible for him to be at Jerusalem the day of
Pentecost," Acts 20:16, Peter and the Eleven addressed the Jerusalem Jews fifty days after the
resurrection of Jesus Christ, Peter and the Eleven were in Jerusalem tarrying, after the command
of Christ: "And behold, I send the promise of My father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of
Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:49, Then Christ added, "Ye
shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto
Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the
earth." Acts 1:8.

Concerning the apostles, we read: "These all continued with one accord in prayer and
supplication," "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in
one place," Acts 1:14 and 2:1. Let us keep in mind that the tarrying place was in Jerusalem.

About twenty-five years later Paul wanted to be in Jerusalem on another day of Pentecost. In
Acts 2:l Pentecost was fully come. Pentecost was observed annually, but the phenomena of Acts
Two was not repeated. When Paul reached Jerusalem the last time, about 60 A. D. (Acts 21:17),
he found his people Israel conducting their religious services and practicing their Old Covenant
ceremonies in their temple. Even after that time Paul apologized after he had spoken
disrespectfully to Israel's Jerusalem high-priest, whom he had not recognized as priest. Acts 23:3
to 8. God permitted Israel to remain in their land, and use their temple, years after Christ
announced the city's and the people's doom,

After the Pentecost of Acts 2, the twelve apostles had entered into the temple with their
message concerning Israel's rejection and the resurrected Messiah: "And daily in the temple, and
in every house they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 5:42.

From these facts we are taught that for some reason God extended extra years of grace to
Israel and Jerusalem and deferred the execution of the judgment pronounced by Christ, in
Matthew 22:7 and 24:1 and 2. Undoubtedly the prayer of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross
brought the amnesty and postponement of Jerusalem's destruction, Christ prayed, "Father,
forgive them, for they know not what they do." It is true, that even before His death the Messiah
said to Israel, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"
"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Matthew 23; 33 and 38. But let us read, with this
judgment. Luke 21:20: "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know
that the desolation thereof is nigh." This desolation of the holy city was to take place when
armies surrounded it.

Jerusalem was not compassed with armies when Peter and the Eleven preached to the
rulers of Israel on the day of Pentecost, Peter’s message to them was one of tenderness and
mercy, "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers." "Ye
are the children of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying
unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed, Unto you first God,
having raised up His Son Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his
iniquities," Acts 3:17, 25 and 26. What a contrast between these words and the awful judgment
of Matthew 23:28 and 29: ". . . within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you scribes
and Pharisees, hypocrites!" ". . .Ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up
then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the
damnation of hell? . . . Behold your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall
not see Me henceforth. till ye shall say, Blessed is lie that cometh in the name of the Lord."

What is the only intelligent explanation of God's change of attitude toward Israel? God,
in the Book of Acts, was giving Israel another chance. The kingdom of heaven was presented to
Israel in the first chapters of Acts as much as it was while Jesus Christ was on earth.
Israel sinned against the Son of man, Luke 12:9 and 10. Now they were given the
opportunity to either repent or to sin against the Holy Spirit and thus commit the unpardonable
sin. Matthew 12:30 to 33. Note carefully God's message to them: "The God of our fathers raised
up Jesus, Whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a
Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are His
witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, Whom God hath given to them that obey
Him. When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them." Acts 5:29
to 32. They sinned against the Holy Spirit. They again sinned against the Holy Spirit when
Stephen saw the Son of man standing in heaven. Acts 7:43 to 60.

The resurrected Christ was Israel's Prince and Saviour. Where did the Gentiles come in?

They didn't come in.

You may ask how about Acts 2:39: "For the promise is unto you, and to
your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall
call."

You may answer this question yourself by reading Acts 10:28 and Daniel 9:7: "And he
said unto them, Ye know that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or
come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man
common or unclean."

Acts 10:28. "O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto Thee, but unto us
confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and
unto all Israel, that are near, AND THAT ARE FAR OFF, through all the countries whither Thou
hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against Thee." Daniel 9:7.

If seven years after that Christ was raised from the dead, it was not lawful far the twelve
apostles to preach to Gentiles, we may be sure that the "far off" of Acts 2:39, referred to the "far
off" Israelites of Daniel 9:7. Also Acts 11:18 is proof of this.


In II Corinthians 3:9 to 16 we learn why the religious Jews were still holding on to
Pentecost and other Old Testament feasts after Acts 2:1—"There was a veil over their eyes.”
There is a veil over the minds of many Pentecostalists today.

Continue--
 

Johann

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TWELVE MEN (AND NO WOMEN) STOOD UP ACTS 2:14
In Matthew 10:5 to 8, the twelve apostles were especially instructed by Christ to stay
away from Gentiles and go to Israel. Twelve men (and no women) stood up on the day of
Pentecost and addressed all the house of Israel (twelve tribes). Acts 2:14 and 36. Years later they
agreed with Paul that they would continue to do the same thing.

Galatians 2:9, Every student of
the Word of God should understand the important Truth of Galatians 2:7 to 9.

Read these verses
very carefully.

Then think of the great blunder the Roman Catholics have made because they
have ever been ignorant of the difference between Peter's keys of the kingdom and Paul's
dispensation of grace. Note Paul's words in I Corinthians 3:10.
In Matthew 10:23 the Lord Jesus said to the Twelve, "Ye may not have gone over the
cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

In the Book of Acts we learn that the Twelve
remained in Jerusalem. Acts 8:1. So far as there is any record in the Book of Acts, not one of the
Twelve preached the gospel in places other than the cities of Israel, Note, in Acts 7:47 to 60, that
Stephen saw the San of man standing in heaven.

Then and there Israel committed the
unpardonable sin, This they repeated in the Thirteenth, Eighteenth and Twenty-eighth chapters
of Acts.

Now carefully consider the truth of Galatians 2:7—"But contrariwise, when they saw that
the gospel of the circumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was
unto Peter,"

The important paint here is that the gospel OF the circumcision was committed to
Peter after the death and resurrection of the Son of man, Unto Paul was committed the gospel OF
the uncircumcision,
After Saul became Paul Israel was set aside.

When and because Israel was
set aside the ministry of reconciliation for Gentiles was committed to Paul, Romans 11:15—II
Corinthians 5:18 and 19, Read II Corinthians 5:19 with Acts 20:24, Romans 15:16 and
Ephesians 3:8, and you will learn the great commission under which Paul labored.
And then if you will compare "disciple all nations" with Acts 10:28 and Galatians 2:9,
you will have plenty of food for thought and the realization of the need far obedience of II
Timothy 2:15, "rightly dividing the Word of Truth,"

If it was unlawful far the Twelve to preach
to Gentiles about seven years after they received the great commission of Matthew 28:19 and 20,
and then they later agreed to confine their testimony to Jews, then what meaneth "disciple all
nations" in the so-called great commission? In Galatians 2:9, were the Twelve and Paul all out
of the will of God, or, rather, is there not something wrong with the general teaching of the great
commission and the Body of Christ?

TO VISIT THE GENTILES.

Compare Acts 15:13 to 15 with Galatians 2:9—"And after they had held their peace,
Jesus answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at
the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for His name. And to this agree the
words of the prophets."

"And when James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that
was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should
go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision." Note, the same two men who declared that
God's will and purpose was to visit the Gentiles agreed to go to the Jews.

Now apply II Timothy 2:15. In applying the Divine principle we learn that the ministry of
the Twelve, in the first eleven chapters of Acts, was in agreement with the words of Israel's Old
Testament prophets. This included the salvation of Cornelius and his household. To this
company of Gentiles Peter and James referred in Acts 15:7 and in Acts 15:13 to 15.

But Israel's
Old Testament prophets said nothing, and knew nothing, about God's spiritual program for the
Gentiles about which Paul wrote in Ephesians 3:1 to 11 an Colossians 1:24 to 28. All of this was
hid in God. And therefore the Holy Spirit called it "the secret hid in God," not made, known to
other ages, "the unsearchable (unprophesied) riches of Christ," "the dispensation of the mystery,"
Read Colossians 1:24 to 27 and Ephesians 3:3 to 11. In Philippians 1:10 (in the Greek) God says,
"distinguish between things that differ". Then we should know that the Divine movement of Acts
15:13 to 15, which agrees with the words of the prophets, is different from the Divine movement
of Ephesians 3:8 to 11 and Colossians 1:24 to 27, which was not in agreement with the words of
the prophets.

In the first eleven chapters of Acts, the Lord, by the Twelve, presented a kingdom
program different from the present "Body" program. Note that twelve men stood up on the day
of Pentecost of Acts 2, and presented a message to the twelve tribes of Israel. Acts 2:14 and Acts
2:36. The resurrected Christ was presented as Israel's Prince and Saviour. Acts 5:29 to 32. How
different is the message from the Truth of Christ far above, Head unto His Body. Ephesians 1:19
to 23.

In Acts 3, if Israel would repent, God would send Christ back to earth to establish His
Messianic earthly kingdom. Acts 3:19 to 21. Unless we know that God was carrying on a twofold program in the first chapters of Acts, we will not rightly divide the Word of Truth. God was
offering salvation to individuals, Jews and proselytes, the kingdom to the nation
Note Acts 3:24—"Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as
many as have spoken, have likewise FORETOLD OF THESE DAYS."


What a contrast with
Colossians 1:24 to 26 and Ephesians 3:8 to 11. All of Israel's prophets knew of the days of Acts
2 and 3. None of Israel's prophets knew of the days of Colossians and Ephesians. Do you think it
is pleasing to the Lord to confuse them? Even the babe in Christ should know the difference
between Peter's keys of the kingdom of heaven and Paul's dispensation of the grace of God. The
messages that Peter preached in the first chapters of Acts were in fulfillment of the Prophecies of
Moses, Samuel, David, Joel, Amos, and others. None of this had anything to do with Ephesians
3:8: "Unto me who am less than the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach
among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ." "Unsearchable" means "untraceable" or
"unprophesied,"


Do you think it is pleasing to the Lord or satisfying to the earnest spiritual student of the
Word to teach or believe that the Jewish feast day (Pentecost) marked the beginning of the
Divine Gentilish movement described as a "mystery"?

Note again Ephesians 3:1 to 3—"For this
cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of
the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation He made known unto
me the Mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words.)"

Now read II Peter 3:15 and 16—"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is
salvation; even as our beloved Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written
unto you; As also in all his Epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things
hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other
Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Are you numbered with those who wrest Paul's writings? You certainly are, if you are
following the interpretation of the Pentecostalists, or ever the (anti-Pentecostalist)
Fundamentalists; who teach that this present Divine economy began on a Jewish feast day.

I'll stop here brother-since this is a lot lo ingest.
Johann.
 

Titus

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Apostle Paul: "But contrariwise, when
they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the
circumcision was unto Peter," Galatians 2:7. For this cause
Peter and Paul taugh the same gospel. Paul also taught Jews as well as gentiles in the latter chapters of Acts.
Matthew 24:14,
- and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations and then the end will come

Paul preaches the gospel of the kingdom to gentiles and jews.
Peter preached the same ONE gospel during His ministry.
Paul is preaching Mark 16:15-16 to gentiles.
That is why they are getting water baptized.

Acts 20:20-25,
- how I kept back nothing that was helpful but proclaimed it to you and taught you publicly and from house to house
- testifying to jews and to gentiles repentance towards God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ

-but none of these these things move me nor do I count my life dear to myself so that I may finish my race with joy and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus to testify to the gospel of the grace of God

-And indeed now I know that you all among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God will see my face no more.

Not two gospels just different phrases for the same gospel!

Same gospel that Paul was given by Jesus to both Jews and gentiles.
Paul said there is one church which is the body and one gospel which is also The Faith.

Ephesians 4:4-5,
- there is One body(church)
- one Lord One faith one baptism.

Paul teaches the gospel he preached to gentiles was the same gospel he tried to destroy. That was Peter's gospel before Paul's conversion in Acts 9. Paul preached the same gospel Peter preached throughout his entire ministry.

Galatians 1:23,
- but they were hearing only He(Paul) who formerly persecuted us NOW Preaches the gospel which he once tried to destroy

Paul is now preaching the gospel he tried to destroy. That's Peter's gospel that Paul tried to destroy in Acts 2 to Acts 9.
They both preach the same gospel to jews and gentiles.

They never give any
Scriptural proof that the Pentecostal Church of Acts Two is identical with "the Church of the
Mystery ,"
Paul made it clear there is only One body/church,
- Ephesians 4:4,
- there is One  body and one Spirit

You may ask how about Acts 2:39: "For the promise is unto you, and to
your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall
call."
The question for you is how many does the Lord call?
The calvinist say only a pre selected few.

Acts 2:39,
- for the promise is to you and to your children and to all who are afar off as many as the Lord our God will  call

2Thessalonians 2:14,
- to which He  called you by our(Peter and Paul) gospel

God does leave any out He calls all to be saved with the good news of Jesus Christ.

Who are the afar off?
Ephesians 2:11;17
- therefore remember that you once gentiles in the flesh who are called uncircumcision...
- and Jesus came and preached peace to you who were afar off(gentiles) and to those who were near


That one body that one church,
Ephesians 3:6,
- that the gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body(same church)


The new testament church began in Acts 2.
It has one gospel message for all.
 
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