Salvation Cannot Be Earned

[Ernest T. Bass]

Salvation/justification/righteousness comes by being obedient to the will of God (Romans 6:16) while condemnation comes through disobedience (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Many examples in the Bible (both OT and NT) of men obeying God's will yet never is their obedience said to have earned God's free gift. But obedience was a precondition, a prerequisite that must be met in order to receive God's free.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Salvation/justification/righteousness comes by being obedient to the will of God (Romans 6:16) while condemnation comes through disobedience (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Many examples in the Bible (both OT and NT) of men obeying God's will yet never is their obedience said to have earned God's free gift. But obedience was a precondition, a prerequisite that must be met in order to receive God's free.

No, Abraham is our example of how righteousness is credited to a person before and without the aid of works of obedience:

"Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10In what context was it credited? Was it after his circumcision, or before? It was not after, but before.c11And he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised." Romans 4:9-11
​

In your Romans 6:16 reference, the righteousness that Paul is referring to is the righteousness of your behavior. Obedience leads to the declaration of righteousness that James is referring to in his letter. Your obedience declares you to be the righteous person that you became through faith all by itself apart from works.

 

[theefaith]

The work of Satan has always been to entice men to believe falsehoods about God and His Word. This is attempted in many ways, too numerous to list here.

One primary deception is to believe, and try to undertake, that one's spiritually eternal life and avoidance of God's Wrath by judgement can be willfully earned by doing specifically religious things. But, not so. Certainly not by membership in a church, by human declaration, or by formulated activites.

"For by grace are we saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

A tip for identifying false churches is to see in their buildings evil gargoyles, freemasonic symbols, the image of the head of a serpent in their architecture, clothing with occult colors and accessories, the transfer of money for religious effect not specified in Biblical Hebraic worship, the use of the name of Lucifer in rites and prayers, vainly repetitious prescribed prayer, officials who claim to be priests conducting the actions of God, and a hierarchy which claims to have authority over the rest of of the World.

God is the source of true Spirituality and life. The human constructs of religious attainment are false.

Yes by baptism we are born again new creation in Christ!

 

[theefaith]

Paul to adult Christians

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall notinherit the kingdom of God? Be notdeceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shallnot inherit the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes by baptism we are born again new creation in Christ!

It that were true then it is through circumcision that we put off sinful flesh.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, (justified by what kind of work?) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" Abraham was justified by his obedient work in offering Isaac as God told him. No one can ever be justified by living in rebellion to God's will/commands.

======

Romans 6:16 Paul is putting forth the only two options men have;
1) condemnation (serving sin unto death)
2) salvation (obedience unto righteousness)

Paul did NOT say one obeys BECAUSE one is already righteous but one obeys in order to become righteousness. No such thing as "disobedience unto righteousness". Again no one can ever be righteous/justified by continually living in rebellion to God's will/commands.

The broader context of Romans 6, Paul explains that the Christian is NOT to continue in sin so grace may abound. Even though the Christian is saved by grace, the Christian is NOT saved by grace alone. Therefore salvation is by a combination of God's grace and man's obedience. If one is not obeying God by serving "obedience unto righteousness" then one is "serving sin unto death" (lost) and grace will not save those who continue in rebellion to God's will. Therefore one must serve obedience unto righteousness in order to receive grace while those who live in disobedience, unrighteousness will fall short of receiving God's grace.

Again, Paul said "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" to which he replied "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" The only way for one to be dead to sin is by obedience to God in serving "obedience unto righteousness".

No example in the Bible of God justifying those who continually lived in disobedience/rebellion to His will. So men are justified by faith yet obedience to God's will is an expression of faith in putting faith in action by obeying God (as offering Issac for Abraham Hebrews 11:17 and repentance, confession baptism for us today). And faith void of the obedience to God is dead and cannot save/justify. Hebrews 11:8 had Abraham's faith been void of obedience to God in moving he would not have been justified. And my point remains, NEVER is obedience to God ever said to have earned man God's free gift but was a necessary condition that must be met in order to receive God's free gift.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 flaming fire for those who "obey not".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul to adult Christians

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall notinherit the kingdom of God? Be notdeceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shallnot inherit the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Obedience is the sign of being justified in Christ, not the procurer of justification in Christ.
Disobedience just shows that you are not justified in Christ by faith. It doesn't mean you haven't performed the obedience that is required to be made righteous. Justification is by faith in the blood of Christ, not by doing works of righteousness.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Paul to adult Christians

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall notinherit the kingdom of God? Be notdeceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shallnot inherit the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Yes, as long as one continues in sinning/not obeying God one will remain lost.

1 John 3:10 those who continue to not do righteousness continue to not be of God. Unless/until man obeys God man continues to be lost.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul did NOT say one obeys BECAUSE one is already righteous

Not true, you bugged eyed little twit (and if you break one more window in Mayberry I'm gonna sic the Darling gang on you.).

Paul says Abraham's obedience in circumcision was the SIGN of the righteousness HE ALREADY HAD, by faith, while still uncircumcised:

"11And he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised." Romans 4:11​

 

[Raccoon1010]

The work of Satan has always been to entice men to believe falsehoods about God and His Word. This is attempted in many ways, too numerous to list here.

One primary deception is to believe, and try to undertake, that one's spiritually eternal life and avoidance of God's Wrath by judgement can be willfully earned by doing specifically religious things. But, not so. Certainly not by membership in a church, by human declaration, or by formulated activites.

"For by grace are we saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

A tip for identifying false churches is to see in their buildings evil gargoyles, freemasonic symbols, the image of the head of a serpent in their architecture, clothing with occult colors and accessories, the transfer of money for religious effect not specified in Biblical Hebraic worship, the use of the name of Lucifer in rites and prayers, vainly repetitious prescribed prayer, officials who claim to be priests conducting the actions of God, and a hierarchy which claims to have authority over the rest of of the World.

God is the source of true Spirituality and life. The human constructs of religious attainment are false.

Matthew 3:8-10

King James Version

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, (justified by what kind of work?) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" Abraham was justified by his obedient work in offering Isaac as God told him. No one can ever be justified by living in rebellion to God's will/commands.

Yes, Abraham was justified by what he did. But 'justified' has two distinct meanings:

jus·ti·fy
(jŭs′tə-fī′)
tr.v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.​

justify​

'Justified' in James' letter is referring to Abraham 'being shown to be righteous', not 'being made righteous'. He explains how he was shown to be righteous by what he did. Paul explains how Abraham was made righteous by what he believed. We know which definition of 'justified' each is using by the context of each of their letters. In the context of Paul's letter, Abraham was made righteous when he believed God and received the righteousness that comes from God (Romans 3:22). In the context of James' letter, Abraham was shown to have that righteousness by what he did (James 2:18).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If one is not obeying God by serving "obedience unto righteousness" then one is "serving sin unto death" (lost) and grace will not save those who continue in rebellion to God's will.

That's because the one who is 'serving sin unto death' is showing that he does not have the righteousness that comes from God through faith all by itself apart from works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And faith void of the obedience to God is dead and cannot save/justify.

That's because faith void of works is not really faith. That person just thinks they have faith in God. For if they had faith in God they'd have a life of ever increasing righteousness to show for that faith.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Not true, you bugged eyed little twit (and if you break one more window in Mayberry I'm gonna sic the Darling gang on you.).

Paul says Abraham's obedience in circumcision was the SIGN of the righteousness HE ALREADY HAD, by faith, while still uncircumcised:

"11And he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised." Romans 4:11​

No verse says Abraham was justified BEFORE he obeyed God. The Bible clearly says he was justified by works, his obedient works in doing as God told him to do. The Calvinist problem is trying to find a way for a person to be righteous BEFORE that person does any righteousness at all! An impossible task they have given themselves.

Per Romans 4:11 since Abraham received a seal of righteousness while in UNcircumcision, then why did he need to be circumcised? Because this seal was God's approval of Abraham's past obedient faith...."a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised". Being declared righteous BEFORE circumcision was true of Abraham alone and not true of any of his descendants, the Jews (Genesis 17:12 ff). Paul's point in Rom 4 was to prove that the Gentiles could also be righteous apart from circumcision (Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2).....hence the Jews were wrong in saying the Gentiles had to be circumcised to be saved. So Abraham is the father of all (Jew and Gentile) that believe (not believe only). Paul was simply showing justification does not come by circumcision (by keeping the law of Moses) but by an obedient faith as Abraham had, not by faith only.

Some try and take this passage to mean that obedience is a sign of one ALREADY having been declared righteous. But Paul already points out that being righteous/justified comes through forgiveness (Romans 4:7-8) and obedience stands before forgiveness and justification.


Romans 4:12 "And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."
So the true descendants of Abraham is not only those who have been circumcised but anyone (circumcised or not) who "walks in the steps of that faith" of Abraham. The word "walk" refers to Abraham's obedience, so anyone who follows Abraham in imitating his obedient faith in walking as Abraham are his true children.

I always like to post what one commentator points out about the word "walk" of Romans 4:12:

"Who also walk after the steps of that faith of our father Abraham ..."
These words mean "who have an obedient faith like Abraham." Abrahamic faith was not any such thing as faith ONLY, but it was a faith that walked after God's commandments, as pointed out under Romans 4:3 (NAS) "For what does the Scripture say? " Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness ."
And Gentiles (or others) who would participate in the promise of salvation God gave through Abraham are here identified as those who "walk" in the steps of that faith, which is a way of saying they must have an obedient faith as did Abraham.

Some of the so-called translations and modern speech renditions of the New Testament have butchered this verse by eliminating all reference to obedience:

--"For Abraham found favor with God by faith alone, before he was circumcised" (The Living Word New Testament, paraphrased).

--"For those who have the faith of Abraham" (NEB).

--"Because they live the same life of faith" (The New Testament in Today's English).

The word "walk" or "tread" is in the Greek New Testament, and it should be in all valid translations of the word of God; but that expression is so obviously a reference to obedience that it cannot fit into the theories of salvation by faith alone; and the conviction persists that this fact influenced some of the so-called translations. It is admitted by all that Christians are saved by the same kind of faith Abraham had, before circumcision and the law; and a further study of the steps of Abraham's faith will reveal that obedience was coupled with it, and that it was by obedient faith that Abraham was justified." Coffman Commentary on Romans

I like the way this commentator points out how some translations try and avoid the obedience of Abraham (walking) in an attempt to promote Luther's faith onlyism by ADDING TO/CHANGING God's word with the words "faith only" or by completely omitting the "walking" altogether.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Yes, Abraham was justified by what he did. But 'justified' has two distinct meanings:

jus·ti·fy
(jŭs′tə-fī′)
tr.v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.​

justify​

'Justified' in James' letter is referring to Abraham 'being shown to be righteous', not 'being made righteous'. He explains how he was shown to be righteous by what he did. Paul explains how Abraham was made righteous by what he believed. We know which definition of 'justified' each is using by the context of each of their letters. In the context of Paul's letter, Abraham was made righteous when he believed God and received the righteousness that comes from God (Romans 3:22). In the context of James' letter, Abraham was shown to have that righteousness by what he did (James 2:18).

Paul and James use the word justified in the exact same way and both are in 100% agreement that justification comes through obedience:

James 2:24 -----------------------works >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justified
Romans 6:17-18---------obeyed from the heart >>>>>>>>>>>>> justified (free from sin)

Since there is but one way to be saved/justified, and the Bible does not contradict itself, then obedience is unto righteousness/justification.


The only difference between Paul and James is in the different approach each takes in showing the truth that "obedience justifies". James shows faith without obedient works will not justify while Paul shows works apart from faith will not justify.

James faith and no works = no justification
Paul works and no faith = no justification

James and Paul conclude it takes both faith and works to be justified.
Hence both AGREE justification takes BOTH faith AND obedient works to be justified as I show above.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

That's because the one who is 'serving sin unto death' is showing that he does not have the righteousness that comes from God through faith all by itself apart from works.

The one who is serving "sin unto death" is lost for he is not serving "obedience unto righteousness" which does save. There is NO VERSE that says righteousness comes from God APART from obedience to God.

There are verses that show righteousness does not come by works of the OT law..."Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28. Note how "faith" is contrasted from "works of the law".

Paul's point in Romans 3 to the Jews was that even though the Jews were given their own law (Law of Moses) and that law gave the Jews an advantage over the Gentile Romans 3:1) what that OT law could NOT do was justify the Jew. For that OT law required strict, perfect law keeping to be justified and the Jew could not keep it perfectly therefore could not be justified by it. So it takes an obedient faith to be justified. Hence the only kind of "work" Paul eliminates in Romans 3-4 is the the strict law keeping work required by the OT law. Paul is therefore contrasting works required by the OT from an obedient faith. Paul is NOT eliminating ALL works in Romans 3-4 just the strict perfect works required by the OT. Nor did Paul say in Romans 3 one is justified by faith only. One must ADD to God's word to get that idea.

Again, each one of us can serve only one of two masters, we each serve either 1) sin unto death (condemnation) or 2) obedience unto righteousness (salvation) for we each will either be lost or saved. There is NO third option of "disobedience unto righteousness", there is no example of one living in disobedience to God yet God justified that person anyway in their unrighteousness/disobedience.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

That's because faith void of works is not really faith.

Faith only is faith void of obedient works.

This means then that "faith only" is not really faith.

That person just thinks they have faith in God. For if they had faith in God they'd have a life of ever increasing righteousness to show for that faith.

Faith is just just "thinking" or a simple acknowledgment of certain facts about Christ but faith is DOING what Christ has said to do....
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46
"..he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21

....and the obedience, the "doing" earns absolutely NOTHING but is simply a necessary prerequisite that must be met in order to receive the free gift of God. The faith onlyist errs in dismissing the fact, dismissing the reality that free gifts can and do sometimes come with preconditions and simply meeting the precondition does not in anyway earn the free gift.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Bueller? Bueller?

 

[farouk]

That's because faith void of works is not really faith.

@Ferris Bueller What James says about faith is indeed consistent with what Paul says in Ephesians, for example.

 

[BarneyFife]

That's because the one who is 'serving sin unto death' is showing that he does not have the righteousness that comes from God through faith all by itself apart from works.

What is faith?