Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
"faith in his blood" Romans 3:25
For the forgiveness of sin...
"redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses" Ephesians 1:7
Salvation Cannot Be Earned
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"redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses" Ephesians 1:7
ez 36:25-27
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21
Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!
None of this ever refers to faith alone!
eph 2 refers to baptism
He quickend us
Brought to life
By baptism
apart from works refers to just that
Works, or works alone
not faith and works in Christ thru grace
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes, we understand your Catholic works gospel!
That's why we're Protestants!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No kidding.
And staying sober doesn't make you righteous. It can show that you have the righteousness that is from God by faith, but it can't get that righteousness for you.
no not works
but faith and works in Christ thru grace!
mare we called by God to suffer?????????
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
For the believer, who has Christ and his sacrifice always interceding on their behalf in heaven (Hebrews 7:25), it doesn't make them legally unrighteous in the Father's sight in heaven. The High Priest and His blood that they trust in, immediately acts as advocate between them and the Father (1 John 2:1). A believer doesn't need to get justified (made righteous) all over again as the Catholics are taught to believe. The believer has already had a bath and are clean. They only need wash their feet and they will be completely clean again (John 13:10).
The only time being drunk makes the believer unrighteous in God's sight, legally speaking, as if they'd never had a bath, is if their drunkenness is the result of going back to unbelief. That's when they no longer have the ministry of Christ and His sacrifice acting as advocate between them and the Father. How can they? They don't believe and trust in it anymore.
1st a believer is only a catechumen not a Christian that requires full faith and baptism
2nd so you can’t sin?
1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
That’s just plain junk doctrine. All who believe and trust in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin have that forgiveness of sin.
Because I trust in the blood of Christ, always on the altar in heaven interceding for those who are trusting in it, my sin is not held to my account. The only way it can be held to my account is if I stop believing in the blood to atone for that sin.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall notinherit the kingdom of God? Be notdeceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shallnot inherit the kingdom of God.
where does it say except believers or Christians?
Where does it say you can sun without any consequences?
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlastingpunishment: but the righteous into life-eternal.
Where does it say those with imputed righteous? It says those who are righteous
Rom 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
state of grace can be lost by sin!
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
state of grace can be lost by sin!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You ask, where does it say except believers or Christians? Here:
"1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He Himself is the atoning sacrificea for our sins" 1 John 2:1-2
The sins of the believing Christian are atoned for by the Christ he believes in. Born again people do not live in and practice sin like unbelievers do. They can't. Because they are born again (1 John 3:9). The people Paul is describing in the passages you cited are those who do not inherit the kingdom because "they practice such things" as a matter of willful lifestyle, showing themselves to not be born again (1 John 3:8).They do not believe and, therefore, do not have Christ as the atoning sacrifice for their sin when they sin and so are condemned by that sin, while the believing Christian is not condemned for his sin because he believes and trusts in the atoning sacrifice for those sins. A Christian has to go back to unbelief for his sin to condemn him.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Only if that sin is committed from a position of unbelief.
A Christian has to go back to unbelief for his sin to be able to condemn him.
As long as he's a believer the ministry and sacrifice of Christ is always interceding on his behalf before the Father on the altar in heaven (Hebrews 7:25).
That's why when a born again, clean person sins they only need to wash their feet (their walk), not take a bath all over again as the Catholics believe (John 13:10).
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It doesn't.
For the believer the consequences for sin are confined to the cost of sin itself in this life, and whatever loving chastisement the Father administers to his erring child. The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is the consequences of sin are not eternal for the believer. They are eternal for the unbeliever.
no not automatically you must repent and confess like everyone else!
does you’re church even have a fire escape? (Confessional with ordained priest)
not automatically
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Legally, yes, automatically. Or else you would be unsaved in the very moment of that sin.
Outwardly, maybe automatically, maybe not. Depends on where you are at in your spiritual development...
"we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, as soon as your obedience is complete." 2 Corinthians 10:6
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Nobody's saying we don't have to repent and confess when we've sinned, lol.
Well, I mean those of us who don't subscribe to Hypergrace theology.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
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