Salvation : Is Finished.

[Behold]

I can imagine the Jews saying exactly the same kinds of things about Jesus and his disciples...

When Jesus was in His ministry there were no Christians, there were just disciples.

Christianity begain with Christ dying on the Cross and Christ being resurrected.

Show us please where any Jew was expecting to go to heaven to enjoy the benefits of Messiah’s kingdom?

Any Jew or Gentile can come to God through Faith in Christ......today....."In the time of the Gentiles".. according to Paul's Gospel.

And keep in mind that being born again is HOW you become a Christian.
So, if you're not born again, then you are not a Christian, you're not "in Christ" and heaven is not your destination after you die.

God has to become the spiritual Father of a person, before they can go to Heaven, and that means they must be "born again".. .Jesus said, on this earth.

= "must".

Adam wasn’t ever told about a prospect of heaven or hell.....only life or death.

The Bible never tells us everything that was ever said to or by Adam, exactly like it does not show us every single word, sentence, and thought that Jesus gave or had, when He was here.
So, we dont know everything that Adam was told or did.

Jesus was Jewish and he was the one who introduced a new concept......that the Kingdom was actually heavenly,

THe KOG is Spiritual.

..if all Christians go to heaven....

All Christians go to heaven.
All the born again (The Christians) are right now : "seated in heavenly places "In Christ".
They are already "ONE with God" as being born again is how you become "in Christ" and "one with God".

Being “born again” pertains only to the “elect”....

The only way to become a Christian, is to be born again.
So, that means that all Christians are born again.
If you're not born again, then you are not a Christian, and you are still in your sins, unforgiven, and God is not your Spiritual Father.

Those who will “die in their sins”

Those who die in their sins today, were never forgiven on earth, were never born again and will go to Hell.

"dying in your sins" means you have committed the "un-pardonable sin" of dying UNPARDONED, and that can't be remedied after you died "in your sins".
Hell is waiting for all those.

It will be very interesting to see who is still standing when Armageddon is over.

Born again Christians wont be here enduring Armageddon, as that situation happens during the Trib, and that is not designed for Christians.
Its designed for those ""who do not obey the Gospel'" of Paul.
In other words.......if you were never born again, and the Trib starts, then you are found there.

Keep in mind that there are only 2 PROOFs that someone is a real Christian.

1.) Born again

2.) "if you have not the Spirit of God in you, then you are none of God's"

So, to have the Spirit of God in you, is to have become "the temple of the Holy Spirit" and that means you are born again, and have become a Christian.

 

[Behold]

Reader,

How do we know that Salvation is finished?

Its because Jesus rose from the dead, having completed it for us, and is now seated in Heaven.
Why is He "seated"?
Because He's finished our Salvation........He completed His mission.

So the question is........ do YOU have what Christ has finished? = Salvation?

Have you received it from God?......>Have you Trusted in Christ for forgivness of your sin?

WHEN ????????????

If you have, and you know the moment and the day you did.......then God gave you the finished Salvation that Jesus died to create for you.

So, stop trying to DO IT for yourself....and instead rejoice in God's Grace and Rejoice in God's "GIFT of Salvation".

And Reader.......if you are not sure that you are a Christian.....you dont remember a time in your past when you came to Christ for forgiveness........and you want to know that everything is ok between you and God., forever.
Well, here is Good News.....God is available..... Christ is Available ..., and "now is the accepted time, and now is the day of Salvation"
Put your faith in Christ........give Jesus your heart...receive Christ as your Savior.......and get your eternity resolved so that its no longer a worry or a confusion or a doubt.
God will give you PEACE about this......if you come to Him trusting in His Son.
God is always waiting for you.......and He'll give you His Salvation if you will take His Son into your heart by faith.

Don't wait.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus can say if and still be responsible for the branches in Him bearing fruit. You saying branches in Him become unfruitful and worthless and cast away. Thats His Job as the Vine to bear fruit.

When Jesus saw the fig tree that end up having no fruit, He cursed the tree for being unfruitful, not the branches. Its the tree thats no good if it doesnt bear fruit, same with the Vine, if it doesnt bear fruit as it should, its defective.

You didn't post scripture.
There are two different accounts about a fig tree.

Jesus wanted to curse the fig tree that DID NOT BEAR FRUIT...
this is because Jesus expects us to bear fruit otherwise our faith is useless.

James 2:17
17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

Jesus gave the fruitless tree one more year and then it was going to be cut down
IF it did not bear fruit.

Those IF's are very important BF.

Luke 13:6-9
6 Then Jesus told this story: “A man planted a fig tree in his garden and came again and again to see if there was any fruit on it, but he was always disappointed.
7 Finally, he said to his gardener, ‘I’ve waited three years, and there hasn’t been a single fig! Cut it down. It’s just taking up space in the garden.’
8 “The gardener answered, ‘Sir, give it one more chance. Leave it another year, and I’ll give it special attention and plenty of fertilizer.
9 If we get figs next year, fine. If not, then you can cut it down.’”


Jesus is disappointed if we do not bear fruit.
Eventually, the tree will be CUT DOWN.

 

[brightfame52]

You didn't post scripture.
There are two different accounts about a fig tree.

Jesus wanted to curse the fig tree that DID NOT BEAR FRUIT...
this is because Jesus expects us to bear fruit otherwise our faith is useless.

James 2:17
17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

Jesus gave the fruitless tree one more year and then it was going to be cut down
IF it did not bear fruit.

Those IF's are very important BF.

Luke 13:6-9
6 Then Jesus told this story: “A man planted a fig tree in his garden and came again and again to see if there was any fruit on it, but he was always disappointed.
7 Finally, he said to his gardener, ‘I’ve waited three years, and there hasn’t been a single fig! Cut it down. It’s just taking up space in the garden.’
8 “The gardener answered, ‘Sir, give it one more chance. Leave it another year, and I’ll give it special attention and plenty of fertilizer.
9 If we get figs next year, fine. If not, then you can cut it down.’”


Jesus is disappointed if we do not bear fruit.
Eventually, the tree will be CUT DOWN.

The point remains, the Vine is responsible for the fruit, no way around it, any lack of fruit is a defect in the Vine

 

[Muna]

The point remains, the Vine is responsible for the fruit, no way around it, any lack of fruit is a defect in the Vine

Sometimes you can be abiding in the wrong vine

Deut 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter

Or just not in the true vine

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[brightfame52]

@Truly

Sometimes you can be abiding in the wrong vine

Then that has nothing to do with Jn 15 the True Vine

 

[Muna]

@Truly



Then that has nothing to do with Jn 15 the True Vine

Ofcourse, if you do not abide in Jesus (who is the vine) how can you expect to be fruitful or remain fruitful. But it's not Jesus fault someone will not abide in him.

 

[GodsGrace]

The point remains, the Vine is responsible for the fruit, no way around it, any lack of fruit is a defect in the Vine

You see BF,,,,
you're so indoctrinated you can't even see what's right in front of you.
But it's OK....all reformed believers are like this.

Jesus doesn't seem to happy with those that are cut off...
So MAYBE HE didn't CAUSE them to be cut off?

 

[brightfame52]

Ofcourse, if you do not abide in Jesus (who is the vine) how can you expect to be fruitful or remain fruitful. But it's not Jesus fault someone will not abide in him.

Yes it is. The Vine is responsible for bearing fruit. Like the Shepherd, He is responsible for the Sheep, if a Sheep gets lost and he doesnt retrieve it, its His fault

 

[brightfame52]

You see BF,,,,
you're so indoctrinated you can't even see what's right in front of you.
But it's OK....all reformed believers are like this.

Jesus doesn't seem to happy with those that are cut off...
So MAYBE HE didn't CAUSE them to be cut off?

If the Vine loses a branch they responsible for, its the Vines fault for not making it fruit

 

[Aunty Jane]

The point remains, the Vine is responsible for the fruit, no way around it, any lack of fruit is a defect in the Vine

Ofcourse, if you do not abide in Jesus (who is the vine) how can you expect to be fruitful or remain fruitful. But it's not Jesus fault someone will not abide in him.

This is a good point....taking the wider view, is God then to blame for the defection of his angelic sons? Was it God’s responsibility to keep his angels in check? Was there some defect with God?
Why do we think that God gave all of us free will?
With free will comes the responsibility to be accountable for our own actions.

Yes it is. The Vine is responsible for bearing fruit. Like the Shepherd, He is responsible for the Sheep, if a Sheep gets lost and he doesnt retrieve it, its His fault

You are not getting it.....the shepherd is not responsible for what the sheep do, but he is to keep an eye on them so that predators do not decimate the flock. If a sheep gets lost, he is to search for it.
Jesus is the “Fine Shepherd” and he takes care of the sheep but he does not dictate to them, nor does he force them to go where they do not want to go. Ancient shepherds knew their sheep by name and only had to call them and they would follow him. This is Jesus......the one who calls us to follow him, but he doesn’t have sheep dogs to enforce compliance like modern day shepherds do.

We are responsible for our own actions and in following the guidance that Jesus gives us in the Bible. The vine is not the problem, as the grafted branches are to become part of the whole vine.....if they do not produce fruit, then Jesus will have them cut off and thrown into the fire for disposal....as they are useless to him.

 

[Muna]

This is a good point....taking the wider view, is God then to blame for the defection of his angelic sons? Was it God’s responsibility to keep his angels in check? Was there some defect with God?
Why do we think that God gave all of us free will?
With free will comes the responsibility to be accountable for our own actions.

I don't really get into these free will discussions but I am looking at it along the lines of 2 John as far as our abiding in Christ

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Or, John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

 

[GodsGrace]

If the Vine loses a branch they responsible for, its the Vines fault for not making it fruit

Yes BF.
At least you admit what Calvinism teaches.
I respect this.

God is responsible for all evil and for the sins of mankind because
God predestinated everything including everything that happens to each person.

 

[brightfame52]

This is a good point....taking the wider view, is God then to blame for the defection of his angelic sons? Was it God’s responsibility to keep his angels in check? Was there some defect with God?
Why do we think that God gave all of us free will?
With free will comes the responsibility to be accountable for our own actions.

You are not getting it.....the shepherd is not responsible for what the sheep do, but he is to keep an eye on them so that predators do not decimate the flock. If a sheep gets lost, he is to search for it.
Jesus is the “Fine Shepherd” and he takes care of the sheep but he does not dictate to them, nor does he force them to go where they do not want to go. Ancient shepherds knew their sheep by name and only had to call them and they would follow him. This is Jesus......the one who calls us to follow him, but he doesn’t have sheep dogs to enforce compliance like modern day shepherds do.

We are responsible for our own actions and in following the guidance that Jesus gives us in the Bible. The vine is not the problem, as the grafted branches are to become part of the whole vine.....if they do not produce fruit, then Jesus will have them cut off and thrown into the fire for disposal....as they are useless to him.

Yes the Shepherd is responsible for the Sheep, that's why if one goes astray, he is compelled to find it. Lk 15

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

The Vine is what causes the fruit, if its branches are rotting and unfruitful, thats a defect on the Vine. If an apple doesnt produce on a apple tree, its not the apples fault. Can the apple just grow into a apple on it own ?

 

[brightfame52]

Yes BF.
At least you admit what Calvinism teaches.
I respect this.

God is responsible for all evil and for the sins of mankind because
God predestinated everything including everything that happens to each person.

Then admit you have low opinion of Christ the vine and His ability. to produce fruit

 

[GodsGrace]

Then admit you have low opinion of Christ the vine and His ability. to produce fruit

No BF.

I have a low opinion of the Reformed/Calvinist faith
that attributes to God evil and the sins of man.

I guess you didn't catch the sarcasm.

Be assured of this.
God loves all of His creation - us.

He gives to each and every person the opportunity to become saved
or He would not be a just God.

If a person accepts the conditions that God has set....
they WILL be saved. The jailer asked what he must do to be saved...
here's the simple reply:
Believe in Jesus and you will be saved.

See...no predestination.

But you prefer to obey John Calvin and his cohorts that would even kill those that did not agree with them
rather than to obey God Almighty, the creator of the universe and the creator of every person whom He wishes to save.

You attribute evil to God....
that is pure blasphemy.
That is exactly what blasphemy is.

 

[Muna]

Yes the Shepherd is responsible for the Sheep, that's why if one goes astray, he is compelled to find it. Lk 15

True, he the good shepherd

Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Who also said,

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Although not all are his sheep

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Next verse, shows this is a great example of

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

 

[JLB]

Salvation.......Is Jesus's finished work on The Cross

Please post the scripture that says … “Salvation is Jesus‘s finished work on the cross”.

 

[JLB]

Reader.,

Let me show you a simple way to understand God's """Gift of Salvation"""", that Is Jesus's blood and death that is GIFTED to you, as "the Gift of Salvaiton", that is the New Covenant, that is the Eternal Blood Atonement.

Now......some of you, went to College on a FULL SCHOLARSHIP, or know someone who did.

A Scholarship, that is a FULL Scholarship......... pays for your College Education.

So, here is the reality...... Its because you HAVE RECEIVED the FULL Scholarship.......that you get to go and LEARN in a College for Free.

Now,

Salvation.......Is Jesus's finished work on The Cross, whereby He has lived a sinless life, kept all the Law and 10 Commandments, and then dies as a Sacrifice to God as God's Salvation offered FREELY for YOU....and ME.......so that our sin can be eternally forgiven, = .....SALVATION that we can receive from God, for free, = what Jesus has completed..... Or as He told us from The Cross..."IT, (Salvation)... is Finished-Accomplished".

See that?

Salvation is completed.... Jesus on The Cross is God's completed Salvation... as proven by the Resurrection.....and its given as a eternal Gift from God, to anyone and everyone who BELIEVES......(Trusts in Christ).......our "Faith is counted by God.. as (Christ's) Righteousness"... given to us for Free.

So, in the same way that a Scholarship is a full payment....so we find that Jesus's Cross, where He sacrificed Himself on our behalf to God, is the FULL Payment for our Salvation the we have received from God... (if you are born again.)

Now, if you have that College Scholarship, then its alreadys YOURS.....and now you go and learn and learn and learn.

And so it is with God's "Gift of Salvation"........Now that you have received it as "the Gift of Salvation">........you are to learn how to exist within it......and that is your discipleship.

And when you have learned ....... you have "worked out your Salvation"......and until you do that, you are a baby Christian who has a lot to learn.

And once your have LEARNED the revelation knowledge that is related to understanding your Salvation perfectly, (that you have been given) .....then Paul said this about you....

"As many as be PERFECT".......

See that? That is not behavior.........that is Spiritual and Theological KNOWLEGE regarding Who you have become....as a "new Creation" in CHRIST.,. Its the revelation of who you have become "in Christ"......as "one with God"......and how to use this revelation knowledge by existing in it always as REAL FAITH.
When you get there........you have "put on the Helmet of Salvation", because you have "worked it out".

Some, put it on the Day they received Christ, because they understood fully that their Salvation is not what they do...but what Has been Given to them as "The Gift of Salvation".....and for some, it can take 50 yrs for them to understand God's Gift...and then they will finally stop trying to keep themselves saved, as they have now finally "gotten the revelation" of "The GIFT of Salvation".
Some are saved 60 yrs, and die, and never have they "worked out their salvation".
They died in the baby crib, a baby christian, who was was saved 60 yrs, and never understood The Cross of Christ as "God's GIFT of Salvation".
They died and went to Heaven, still trying to earn their way there.......when in fact they were "seated in heavenly places in Christ" the instant they were saved 60 yrs ago.

Now, how do you know you are in the baby chair training chair, and have a lot to learn about your Salvation?

The #1 Proof that you are still in the diaper stage... Hebrews 6:1....is that you will BELIEVE that you can "lose your Salvation".

How is the work of the cross, applied to a person so they can experience the salvation He paid for?

 

[JLB]

Yes the Shepherd is responsible for the Sheep, that's why if one goes astray, he is compelled to find it. Lk 15

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Jesus is in heaven, He doesn’t leave heaven to go after anyone.


its people who go after a sheep you becomes lost.

Here is the process.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.

But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.



so much for Calvinism.