Your view makes the Vine look bad, its the Vines responsibility to produce the fruit
question:
answer:
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question:
The reason some of you believe that you can lose your Salvation, is because you are trying to keep yourself saved.
A.) You can't.. You're not the Savior.
So, when you are trying not to lose your Salvation, or believe you can.... its because you do not trust in Christ to keep you saved.
Reader....If you do not trust in Christ to keep you saved, you do not trust in Christ at all.
= This means that you dont yet understand God's Salvation, and you are trying to do it for yourself.
Paul refers to this Christian as "in the Flesh"..
What is the usual reason that a person becomes a : self-saver ?
Its because you have not yet understood, that Salvation is what God has completed through CHRIST... that we receive,.. and our discipleship is what we do for God because we have received His Eternal Salvation that is only found in Christ.
Salvation, is not our discipeship. Salvation is Christ's Sacrifice of Himself to God on THE CROSS so that we can be SAVED... forgiven, born again , having received Eternal life.
And now that we have RECEIVED God's Salvation, that is "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Eternal Life.....we are born again.
See all that?
That is God's Salvaton.......and we can't do that....and we dont try to keep it, because God's Salvation is completed by Jesus already, 2000 Yrs ago on THE Cross., and we have JESUS in us....
= Jesus is Salvation.
And now that we have Received "the GIFT of Salvation"........we then go and do those works, and live for the Lord, and "present our body as a living Sacrifice to God"".........not to try to stay saved, ....but because we ARE SAVED Already,= forever.
A.) You can't.. You're not the Savior.
So, when you are trying not to lose your Salvation, or believe you can.... its because you do not trust in Christ to keep you saved.
Reader....If you do not trust in Christ to keep you saved, you do not trust in Christ at all.
= This means that you dont yet understand God's Salvation, and you are trying to do it for yourself.
Paul refers to this Christian as "in the Flesh"..
What is the usual reason that a person becomes a : self-saver ?
Its because you have not yet understood, that Salvation is what God has completed through CHRIST... that we receive,.. and our discipleship is what we do for God because we have received His Eternal Salvation that is only found in Christ.
Salvation, is not our discipeship. Salvation is Christ's Sacrifice of Himself to God on THE CROSS so that we can be SAVED... forgiven, born again , having received Eternal life.
And now that we have RECEIVED God's Salvation, that is "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Eternal Life.....we are born again.
See all that?
That is God's Salvaton.......and we can't do that....and we dont try to keep it, because God's Salvation is completed by Jesus already, 2000 Yrs ago on THE Cross., and we have JESUS in us....
= Jesus is Salvation.
And now that we have Received "the GIFT of Salvation"........we then go and do those works, and live for the Lord, and "present our body as a living Sacrifice to God"".........not to try to stay saved, ....but because we ARE SAVED Already,= forever.
The Vine is Jesus.
So if it's Jesus' responsibility to produce the fruit....
1. Why isn't the fruit being produced?
Does Jesus not know how?
2. Does Jesus PURPOSEFULLY not allow the person to produce fruit so that the
person will become lost as HE is teaching?
It's both BF.
The branches depend on the vine in order to bear fruit.
No vine...
No fruit.
Without Jesus we can do nothing.
BUT
Those that are IN THE VINE.....
can also decide NOT to bear fruit.
We have persons right here on this forum stating that our behavior does NOT
determine the state of our salvation and that we could obey or not obey God and still be saved.
So,,,,If we decide to do no work for the Kingdom of God....
we will be like the branches that do not bear fruit and are taken away.
It's very easy to understand this when one believes in free will.
If a person does NOT believe in free will.....
it makes §God be responsible for when the do good...
and for when they sin.
Since God is not the author of sin...
we must believe that man has the free will to sin if he so chooses.
@GodsGrace
Yes Jesus is the Vine and His responsibility to cause the branches in Him to be fruitful, so if branches in Him are not fruitful and are cast away lost, that's His fault , for the branches had no ability to be produce fruit. So you need to explain to us why Jesus the True Vine lost some of His Branches He was responsible for to be fruitful.
Its you running around here talking about the Vine loses His branches, now how and why
Yes Jesus is the Vine and His responsibility to cause the branches in Him to be fruitful, so if branches in Him are not fruitful and are cast away lost, that's His fault , for the branches had no ability to be produce fruit. So you need to explain to us why Jesus the True Vine lost some of His Branches He was responsible for to be fruitful.
Its you running around here talking about the Vine loses His branches, now how and why
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Yes, that seems to be the case with some. We can bandy back and forth pejorative words like these, but why? Seriously, why? What is the purpose other than to elevate one's self in their own eyes?
You take these posts as opportunity to put others down, and there is no fruitfulness in that.
Neither is there fruitfulness in you and I endlessly repeating the same interpretations that the other disagrees with. I know your view at this point, and by now you should know mine.
Will I change your mind?
Will you change my mind?
Is it that you want me to keep responding to you so you can keep getting your digs in? That's not good for you. I'm not planning to enable you.
So no thanks.
Much love!
But only one can be right. I find it's usually better to here the words that are written rather than going through mental gymnastics to try and explain anyway the simple meaning of the words. An example
You can see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Simple and straight forward but not to everybody. And because alternative explanations can be derived that doesn't make them equivalent to the truth of what that sentence says.
That's a great example, and if one interprets it apart from it's context they will say works are required for salvation. As they say . . . context is king. So when we keep it in context we find otherwise, that works accompany salvation, but do not provide salvation.
Much love!
Has it ever occurred to you that those who are pejorative, those who don't consider context, those that do not preserve Scriptural harmony, don't have it right?
Much love!
Ahhh there it is ...."apart from it's context". That sentence is full and complete. That is the context. "The apple is red". That's a full and complete sentence with it's context intact. What "context" means is someone wants to say yeah but some apples are free or yellow. That's true but it doesn't change the context of, "The apple is red".
It's clear the opposite hasn't occurred to you. The fact is if I have to listen you your "context" turn the words are meaningless. "The apple is red". Complete and full of context. Context is mental gymnastics
Context is how you know what God is saying. But whatever you want, it's your mind, use it as you wish.
Much love!
What God is telling me, in that full and complete sentence, that a man is saved by works and not by faith alone. What's funny is your "context" is intended to tell me why works have no part in salvation. Your "context" takes me away from what God is saying. It's fascinating
And after the farmer loaded the green apples into the truck, the man painting the barn spilled a bucket of paint, splashing all over the apples! And the farmer holds one up to the painter, "The apple is red with paint! Now what?"
And you quote, "the apple is red". Have you communicated correctly? I'd say not, having removed the part you are using from the context that shows it's actually saying the opposite. Good show!
It's always surprising to me when others don't really consider the implications of their assertions. No context? Come on man!
Much love!
But it's says the apple is red not "...but red with paint". Apart from that the apple is still green in your story.
But let's play the "out of context" game.
What good is it my brethren if someone claims to have faith but does not have good works? Can such an with save him?
In the same way, faith by itself is dead if it does not have works.
Verses 20-22
Likewise Rahab the prostitute was she not also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them away by a different road?
For just as the body is dead without a spirit so faith without works is also dead.
Save me your green apples covered in paint story. You people jump through hoops to ignore what Scripture is plainly teaching. After "out of context" comes the "I win by volume of other content" strategy. I actually had one of you people tell me Paul MUST have meant wenare saved by faith alone because he used the word "faith" by itself in the sentences. LMBO that was hilarious
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It's good to know that you accept the teachings of the reformed/calvinist beliefs.
Yes sir.
In the reformed and Calvinist theology God is responsible for what man does or does not do.
Thanks for admitting this...
some Calvinists find a problem with admitting this.
The rest of Christianity accepts what the bible teaches.
It teaches that THOSE IN CHRIST that do NOT bear fruit...
will be cut away.
This is what Jesus said....not me.
Here is the scripture again:
John 15:2
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away....
No need to explain anything...
Jesus has made a very clear statement.
The branches IN CHRSIT (a born again believer is IN CHRIST)
that DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT....is cut away.
And burned....see verse 6.
Jesus repeats this here:
Luke 13:6-8
6And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
7“And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
8“And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; 9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”
You people, huh?
Why must you continually make this personal and pejorative? Is that the only way you can feel good about yourself?
James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
There's that context.
Much love!
No that's where you want to stop thats not the context. Faith without works is dead. Faith is completed by work therefore faith alone (Sola fide) is non biblical. Faith alone is not sufficient for salvation. And yes I'll be perjorative as long and you try and paddle this silliness.
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