"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Eternally Grateful]

WHAT?!

Seriously???

Look at the scripture:

“If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6)

You have to be totally sold out to not see the implication of this text!

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes,

Next..

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Next..

…will be the judgment.

Be prepared.

Don’t rely on study books and Greek dictionaries.

If another voice speaks contrary to what has been translated from the holy scriptures you should turn away from it very quickly and not entertain it because it pleases the flesh and a guilty conscience.

 

[GEN2REV]

For those who actually care to study. In John 15: 2, the word "taketh away" in the greek is airea, which literally means to lift up, to raise from the ground, to raise upwards, to elevate. etc etc.

It is a term that people in Jesus day would readily associate with taking care of fruit bearing vines. WHen you have vines which are on the ground, they are chocked out and can not produce fruit. So you life them off the ground so they can recieve the nutrients and again start to produce fruit.

Jesus is not using this to say one can lose salvation, He is using it to show how God works in his children who are not producing Fruit to lift them up so that they are producing fruit

Nosas and self righteousness loses again.

That might have been a significant post if you hadn't completely missed verse 6.
John 15:6.

I'd say whether He lifts them up or throws them on the ground, they're still withering and getting burned to a crisp.

Do they still have their salvation then?

 

[theefaith]

It also literally means this:

“to take off or away what is attached to anything”

Many expert translators correctly translate this passage (John 15:2) that refutes Once Saved Always Saved absolutely.

Don’t seek a different Greek “sense” to elevate the false doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.

And they ignore

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[theefaith]

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away (lifts up); and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

These people are already clean. The context is bearing fruit. Not gaining or earning salvation.

saved people are thrown into the fire?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That might have been a significant post if you hadn't completely missed verse 6.
John 15:6.

I'd say whether He lifts them up or throws them on the ground, they're still withering and getting burned to a crisp.

Do they still have their salvation then?

did they ever have eternal life. or did they have conditional life? If they were saved. Did not the same jesus tell them they would never die (John 6)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

saved people are thrown into the fire?

Those people are not thrown into the fire.

WHy do you resist the promise of God and wish to instead try to earn something you can not earn?

 

[theefaith]

Those people are not thrown into the fire.

WHy do you resist the promise of God and wish to instead try to earn something you can not earn?

where does it say so?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

where does it say so?

where does it say what?

That eternal life is forever. (john 3, john 4, john 5, john 6 etc etc etc.)

that we will never die (john 6 and John 11)

Does God keep his promise. or is God make promises he does not intend to keep?

 

[theefaith]

Those people are not thrown into the fire.

WHy do you resist the promise of God and wish to instead try to earn something you can not earn?

cannot earn?

Is that absolute?

not participation in any way?

 

[theefaith]

where does it say what?

That eternal life is forever. (john 3, john 4, john 5, john 6 etc etc etc.)

that we will never die (john 6 and John 11)

Does God keep his promise. or is God make promises he does not intend to keep?

only if you remain faithful until death

Jn 15:1-5 choose to abide or not

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[theefaith]

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity etc.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

cannot earn?

Is that absolute?

not participation in any way?

if you do in order to recieve, you are working for a wage (payment) or a reward (again payment)

Salvation is a gift.

Salvation is also recieved by Grace (unmerited favor) Grace can not be earned.

so if your working to try to earn. then you are rejecting grace.

Its actually quote simple

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity etc.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

Justification. The tax collector went home justified. He emptied himself and got on his knees and cried for Gods mercy.
Justification was paid completely by the price of redemption.
Santification, We are positionally sanctified (in christ) forever (eternal life), We are conditionally sanctified (our daily life) on a daily bases until the day we die.

Salvation.

I have been saved from the penalty of sin.

I am being saved from the power of sin

I will be saved from the ability to sin.

 

[theefaith]

if you do in order to recieve, you are working for a wage (payment) or a reward (again payment)

Salvation is a gift.

Salvation is also recieved by Grace (unmerited favor) Grace can not be earned.

so if your working to try to earn. then you are rejecting grace.

Its actually quote simple

then all must be saved?

 

[theefaith]

Justification. The tax collector went home justified. He emptied himself and got on his knees and cried for Gods mercy.
Justification was paid completely by the price of redemption.
Santification, We are positionally sanctified (in christ) forever (eternal life), We are conditionally sanctified (our daily life) on a daily bases until the day we die.

Salvation.

I have been saved from the penalty of sin.

I am being saved from the power of sin

I will be saved from the ability to sin.

then we are saved by prayer and humility?

the publican never mentioned Christ or his blood and death

the new covenant was not in effect yet
That goes for the thief too

heb 9:16-17

Explain

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9
   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
   
   
2. Galatians 5:21
   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
   
   Also
   Hebrews 12:4
   Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
   
   
   Matthew 10:38
   And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
   
   Matthew 16:24
   Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
   
   Matthew 16:25
   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
   
   John 12:24
   Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
   
   25
   He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
   
   Romans 5:3
   And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
   
   Romans 5:4
   And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
   
   Romans 8:17
   And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
   
   2 Corinthians 12:9
   And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
   
   2 Thessalonians 1:5
   Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
   
   Colossians 1:11
   Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
   
   2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
   
   2 Timothy 2:12
   If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
   
   Phil 1:29
   For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
   
   James 1:2-8
   My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing
   
   Hebrews 6:12
   That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
   
   Hebrews 10:36
   For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
   
   Hebrews 12:4
   Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
   
   1 Peter 2:20
   For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
   
   Romans 8:17
   And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
   
   2 Timothy 2:12
   If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
   
   

 

[GEN2REV]

did they ever have eternal life. or did they have conditional life? If they were saved. Did not the same jesus tell them they would never die (John 6)

It's all conditional. Always was - from the very beginning.

He told them they'd never die, but the conditions were made clear. We'll never die IF we meet the conditions.

We must obey Commandments and we must bear fruit.

Look at how Jesus describes the process of receiving the Holy Spirit in the chapter prior.

"He that hath My Commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him. ... If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
John 14:21
John 14:23

Then, in chapter 15 we get the description of what happens to those who are IN Christ who do not bear spiritual fruit.
John 15:2
John 15:6

Clearly, these are Christians.

God's promises have been conditional from Creation.

Look what happened to Adam and Eve for not meeting the conditions.
Genesis 3:16-17
Look what happened to Israel for not meeting the conditions.
Joshua 23:15

 

[quietthinker]

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.
No kidding?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

then all must be saved?

How?

He who believes is not condemned

He who believes not is condemned already.

The tax collector went home justified, while the legalist did not.

Why?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

then we are saved by prayer and humility?

the publican never mentioned Christ or his blood and death

the new covenant was not in effect yet
That goes for the thief too

heb 9:16-17

Explain

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9
   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
   
   
2. Galatians 5:21
   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
   
   Also
   Hebrews 12:4
   Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
   
   
   Matthew 10:38
   And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
   
   Matthew 16:24
   Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
   
   Matthew 16:25
   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
   
   John 12:24
   Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
   
   25
   He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
   
   Romans 5:3
   And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
   
   Romans 5:4
   And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
   
   Romans 8:17
   And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
   
   2 Corinthians 12:9
   And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
   
   2 Thessalonians 1:5
   Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
   
   Colossians 1:11
   Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
   
   2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
   
   2 Timothy 2:12
   If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
   
   Phil 1:29
   For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
   
   James 1:2-8
   My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing
   
   Hebrews 6:12
   That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
   
   Hebrews 10:36
   For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
   
   Hebrews 12:4
   Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
   
   1 Peter 2:20
   For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
   
   Romans 8:17
   And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
   
   2 Timothy 2:12
   If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
   

Salvation from the time of Adam has been by faith.

You either trust God or you trust self.

Those are the only two options.

The tax collector called out to God because he lost faith in self and realised his sin and bancrupt heart.

Just like I did 40 some years ago.

I pray you did.