"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[theefaith]

good God man.

You think your priest sprinking you with water justifies you and takes the place of God the HS immersing (baptising you) into christ?

I will pray for you

it is God who baptizes! Ez 36:25
Christ in the person of the priest accomplishes the inward washing of grace only as the priest accomplishes the outward sign of washing in the Christ sacrament of baptism acts 22:16

washed clean in baptism with merits of and command of Christ Matt 28:19

 

[Eternally Grateful]

the church wrote the scripture not contradicts it

um No. God wrote the scriptures..

And your church does cause the very bible you claim it wrote to contradict

 

[Eternally Grateful]

it is God who baptizes! Ez 36:25
Christ in the person of the priest accomplishes the inward washing of grace only as the priest accomplishes the outward sign of washing in the Christ sacrament of baptism acts 22:16

washed clean in baptism with merits of and command of Christ Matt 28:19

dude, You can not let your church go. So I will have to walk away. We can not keep going over the same stuff over and over and over.

Your can not see anything unless the men of your church tells you. So you are basing all you believe on them. Until you decide you will actually test what is being said and actually study, There is no use in continuing this conversation.

I will pray for you. but I see no reason to go forward with this, Unless I see someone ask a question in which I will need to help them by showing them the mistake in your belief.

Good day sir

 

[theefaith]

um No. God wrote the scriptures..

And your church does cause the very bible you claim it wrote to contradict

I don’t have a church only Christ does
Only Christ founded the true church all others are the den of thieves filled with errors the tradition of men

Opposing the apostolic tradition

the Holy Spirit inspired the New Testament but the church wrote it under apostolic tradition

 

[ScottA]

Opposing the apostolic tradition

That is your contradiction and your error (the apostles were men--and their traditions are the traditions of men).

 

[theefaith]

dude, You can not let your church go. So I will have to walk away. We can not keep going over the same stuff over and over and over.

Your can not see anything unless the men of your church tells you. So you are basing all you believe on them. Until you decide you will actually test what is being said and actually study, There is no use in continuing this conversation.

I will pray for you. but I see no reason to go forward with this, Unless I see someone ask a question in which I will need to help them by showing them the mistake in your belief.

Good day sir

Christ commanded us to obey them
To submit to his authority in the church of the apostles

as scripture verifies

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ so rejection of scripture is rejection of Christ!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Rejection of the church founded by Christ or the revelation of Christ as taught by His one true church is rejection of Christ!

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

Christ is king and obedience to Christ is required
And the ministers he has appointed
The apostles are appointed to administer the kingdom and teach the nations and baptize administer the sacraments of eternal salvation

 

[theefaith]

That is your contradiction and your error (the apostles were men--and their traditions are the traditions of men).

Christ commanded the apostles to teach
And even said “he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Jesus Christ)!!! Lk 10:16

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[theefaith]

That is your contradiction and your error (the apostles were men--and their traditions are the traditions of men).

the new covenant is a covenant based on hierarchical and jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles

Not a Bible study

 

[ScottA]

Christ commanded the apostles to teach
And even said “he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Jesus Christ)!!! Lk 10:16

You prove nothing.

Jesus said the same of the poor and the needy. And those to whom He told this--just as you do not understand, they did not understand either.

 

[ScottA]

the new covenant is a covenant based on hierarchical and jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles

Not a Bible study

You have only heard what you want to hear.

Jesus also said, "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t have a church only Christ does
Only Christ founded the true church all others are the den of thieves filled with errors the tradition of men

Opposing the apostolic tradition

the Holy Spirit inspired the New Testament but the church wrote it under apostolic tradition

Once again

When any church causes the word of God to contradict, its not a church.

Your church does this, So it is not Gods church. They can claim it until they are blue in the face. Its not true

Isreal was Gods chosen nation. Yet Israel in the time of Christ was nor preaching Gods word. They caused the word they wrote to contradict itself. and ended up crucifying Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have only heard what you want to hear.

Jesus also said, "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one."

Sadly, He is stuck in the same situation the pharisees where in, tradition and what they thought was true having written the word themselves and having the priesthood which could trace back to Aaron blinded them to the truth also.

 

[theefaith]

Once again

When any church causes the word of God to contradict, its not a church.

Your church does this, So it is not Gods church. They can claim it until they are blue in the face. Its not true

Isreal was Gods chosen nation. Yet Israel in the time of Christ was nor preaching Gods word. They caused the word they wrote to contradict itself. and ended up crucifying Christ.

Give me a specific contradiction please?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Give me a specific contradiction please?

I already gave you one you totally ignore.

If it is grace it is not of works, lest grace is no longer grace.

These are the words inspired By God which paul wrote down.

Yet your church claims grace is from belief plus works. Well that is a total contradiction of terms, and in effect makes paul a liar. Or makes his words not from God. In which case, the Bible is a sham

 

[theefaith]

I already gave you one you totally ignore.

If it is grace it is not of works, lest grace is no longer grace.

These are the words inspired By God which paul wrote down.

Yet your church claims grace is from belief plus works. Well that is a total contradiction of terms, and in effect makes paul a liar. Or makes his words not from God. In which case, the Bible is a sham

no you just misunderstand grace

first it refers to redemption
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of all men!

we enter into His redemption thru correct (catholic) faith and baptism check eph 2 he quickend us! Brought to life
By baptism

then we are in Christ under grace and are called to good works
Sanctification

then if we persevere to the end
Salvation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

no you just misunderstand grace

first it refers to redemption
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of all men!

we enter into His redemption thru correct (catholic) faith and baptism check eph 2 he quickend us! Brought to life
By baptism

then we are in Christ under grace and are called to good works
Sanctification

then if we persevere to the end
Salvation

No, You misunderstand grace

grace by defenition is unmerited favor
Paul said if it is of grace it is no longer of works, otherwise Grace is no longer grace,

In both instances. Your wrong..

 

[OzSpen]

By definition salvation (being the gift of eternal life), is forever.

Still, there are many who are confused by the ongoing sin of people who claim to be saved. This is a great misunderstanding-- but it does not mean that salvation can be lost. And yes, there are many scriptures that can be cherry picked and presented to argue the point...but that does not take anyone who is actually saved, having been born [again] of the spirit of God, out of His hand, or that they can loose their salvation, because: It is no longer you who live, but God who lives-- salvation means you gave you life to God...and God is forever.

Yes, there are many ways you can ho hum your way around thinking about actually giving your life to God, but if and when you totally do surrender your life to God and give it to Him, it is finished: You are forever "in God" and He in you--and He is forever.

"God is the same yesterday, today, and forever."​

So...now the matter of ongoing sin:

Just as Peter, having been "washed clean" by Christ, was embodied by Satan, causing Jesus to say "Get behind me Satan" to Peter...after we are born again of the spirit of God we can sin in the flesh without loosing our salvation-- Why? Because "we are alive and remain" in the world. This is the stumbling block that causes people to believe they can lose their salvation. But, again, this is a misunderstanding of what actually occurs. At no other time in history, not even those times when most of the scriptures were written, have people died and lived on in the flesh. These are those times...and the terms are different. And yes, it is written of in the scriptures-- If you don't know of them, keep searching, nocking, and asking.

Nonetheless, if you are saved, having been born again of the spirit of God, it is no longer you who lives, but God who lives...and He is forever. While you remain in the world...your old flesh is still subject to death and decay..and sin. But that body of flesh is passing away, just as all the world is passing away...and this is why we are counselled to remain faithful to the end--because it is as if we have been left in the grave, in death...without which we could not survive without faith and the knowledge that it is no longer we who live, but God who lives in us.

And we are here to serve--that is why we are left in the world...not to act out of our fleshly old bodies, but rather, to walk in the newness of life-- that life we have been given in the Spirit. Walk in the spirit.

So, yes, it is a daily labor to keep the old flesh under subordination of the spirit of God. But it is in Him that we have the strength to do so.

Until the End.

ScottA,

So are you promoting a view that would be called once-saved-always-saved?

Oz

 

[ScottA]

ScottA,

So are you promoting a view that would be called once-saved-always-saved?

Oz

Yes, of course...if "saved" is not forever...it's not salvation.

Don't people have dictionaries?

 

[OzSpen]

Yes, of course...if "saved" is not forever...it's not salvation.

Don't people have dictionaries?

Scott,

I find the better biblical language is perseverance of the saints (Ephesians 1:13-14 ESV). This is especially so in light of Heb 6:4-6 (ESV).

Doing exegesis is radically different from using dictionaries.

Will Ravi Zacharias be saved eternally? Did you get that meaning from a dictionary?

Oz

 

[theefaith]

No, You misunderstand grace

grace by defenition is unmerited favor
Paul said if it is of grace it is no longer of works, otherwise Grace is no longer grace,

In both instances. Your wrong..

“it” it is redemption not justification
Sanctification
Or
Salvation