"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Ferris Bueller]

Welcome to Eternal Security. Its eternally based on GOD's Faithfulness.

That's a fact. That's why we are told to hold fast to it in faith:

"23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23​

But you've been calling that a self-righteous works gospel that denies the cross. Well, I guess you're leveling that accusation against the very author of Hebrews himself who says the very same thing I've been saying and from whom I received that teaching.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Lord God SAVES them and KEEPS them SAVED.

Well, you sure don't keep yourself saved!
You hold fast in faith to the one who keeps you saved.
You are protected by God's power for salvation THROUGH FAITH (1 Peter 1:5).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Don’t you SEE the difference between ^^^ THAT guy and a Converted man?
Why a Believers CAN fall from Faith?
Why a Believer IS NOT SAVED?
AND
A Converted man CAN NOT fall from Faith?
Why a Converted man IS SAVED?
AND
A Converted man CAN NOT fall from Faith?
Why a Converted man IS SAVED?

As I'm sure you can see, none of this changes the necessity to continue to believe in the blood of Christ to be saved when he returns. You're just saying it's a given that the true believer will indeed continue in that believing. Fine. Each of us can believe what we want about that. But the important thing is you surely must continue to be a believing person in order to be saved through the Judgment when Jesus comes back. That's what matters. We need to be focusing on making sure we have really believed and are continuing to believe as evidenced by our changed and changing lives. That's what matters.

 

[ScottA]

Amen!
That's a good reason to hold fast to it!

"23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." Hebrews 4:14​

Do notice however, that those words were preached to the house of Israel (Hebrews), and not to the gentiles (who had no prior high priests).

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Amen!
That's a good reason to hold fast to it!

"23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." Hebrews 4:14​

Amen.

 

[Taken]

"18Timothy, my child, I entrust you with this command in keeping with the previous prophecies about you, so that by them you may fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith." 1 Timothy 1:18-19
​

"10I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to Him in His death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus." Philippians 3:10-14 ​

TY Ferris.
I do not identify with Timothy, a young / even perhaps teen, being newly introduced to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, himself of mixed Greek and Jewish heritage, being sent out on his own to teach and preach in a major city to a mix of Greeks and Jews having historical racial clashes of their own, being reminded to stay focused on Christ Jesus’ teaching by his own personal teacher Paul, who himself personally visited and preached in that city and the warning/reminders of teaching (Greeks steeped in philosophies/ Jews steeped in men only congregations and now including women) and encouraging Timothy of how and what to stay focused on, while including all listeners, who are racially divided.

IN context, necessitates the whole of the book of 1 Timothy.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do notice however, that those words were preached to the house of Israel (Hebrews), and not to the gentiles (who had no prior high priests).

How does that change the understanding of those passages for gentiles?

 

[Taken]

Men sin against God's holy commandment when they sin against men, harming them.

So, if a man harms you, he has sinned against you?
And can you now, forgive that man of his sin against you?

 

[Taken]

[QUOTE="Ferris Bueller, post: 1423785, member: 9156"
You hold fast in faith to the one who keeps you saved.
[/QUOTE]

How?

 

[Taken]

I don't remember if I addressed this.
Not holding on in faith is called UNBELIEF. It's a rejection of Christ. That is the one sin that is unforgivable.

How does A Converted man WITH THE Spirit (POWER) of God “IN” him,
NOT “hold on to his faith”?

Isn’t THAT God’s Power “IN” that man “FAILING” to keep that man “IN” faith?

 

[Taken]

As I'm sure you can see, none of this changes the necessity to continue to believe in the blood of Christ to be saved when he returns.

What you are saying, IS.....ALL men ARE WAITING For Jesus’ RETURN...
So they can “THEN” BECOME SAVED?

You're just saying it's a given that the true believer will indeed continue in that believing. Fine. Each of us can believe what we want about that. But the important thing is you surely must continue to be a believing person in order to be saved through the Judgment when Jesus comes back.

So, Again...You for example...BELIEVE, and MUST continue to BELIEVE, until Jesus COMES BACK...SO you “WILL” be SAVED?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

TY Ferris.
I do not identify with Timothy, a young / even perhaps teen, being newly introduced to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, himself of mixed Greek and Jewish heritage, being sent out on his own to teach and preach in a major city to a mix of Greeks and Jews having historical racial clashes of their own, being reminded to stay focused on Christ Jesus’ teaching by his own personal teacher Paul, who himself personally visited and preached in that city and the warning/reminders of teaching (Greeks steeped in philosophies/ Jews steeped in men only congregations and now including women) and encouraging Timothy of how and what to stay focused on, while including all listeners, who are racially divided.

IN context, necessitates the whole of the book of 1 Timothy.

What about what Paul said to the Corinthians?

"1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
​

It doesn't matter if a true believer can really stop believing or not. The necessity to do so remains.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, if a man harms you, he has sinned against you?
And can you now, forgive that man of his sin against you?

Yes, and yes.

 

[Taken]

What about what Paul said to the Corinthians?

"1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
​

It doesn't matter if a true believer can really stop believing or not. The necessity to do so remains.

Here is your teaching Dilemma.
* A believer is ANY man who believes. That man can believe today, Doubt tomorrow, not believe the next day, and the following day Again Believe.

* IS that mans soul saved? No.
* IS that mans spirit quickened? No.

* Say that SAME man, IS BELIEVING, on the day he bodily dies...
* Will that mans soul be saved THEN? Yes.
* That mans body will be buried....Begin rotting, Returning to dust.
* And what about his Saved Living soul?
* His Saved Living soul DEPARTS his dead body, and goes to Paradise, (heaven), and what?
* Waits in Comfort, FOR God Prophecy to be Fulfilled ON Earth.
* Waits for the day, his Body is resurrected, redeemed, glorified, so his saved living soul can return to his risen glorified body.

* Say that SAME man, IS NOT BELIEVING, on the day he bodily dies...
* Will that mans soul be saved THEN? No.
* What will become of his UNSAVED, departed living soul?
* His body shall be buried, rot, return to dust.
* His unsaved departed living soul shall go to hell, wait in torments, wait to the day, his unsaved soul is returned to his unglorified and risen body, TO STAND before the Judge and receive his righteous Judgement, of an unsaved living soul, and unglorified risen body.

ABSOLUTELY....THAT MAN, is taught, warned, in Scripture, TO HOLD ON TO HIS FAITH.......KEEP BELIEVING TO THE DAY his BODY drops Dead.
BECAUSE......IF He drops dead on a DAY, he is doubting, not believing...
His soul SHALL NOT BE SAVED.

WHAT does the WARNING have to DO WITH a “CONVERTED” man?
NOTHING!
A Converted man.........IS NOT “WAITING” to BECOME Saved AFTER he PHYSICALLY Dies.
A Converted man.........ALREADY bodily died, Crucified with Jesus.
A Converted man.........Already RECEIVED Salvation of his soul.
A Converted man.........CAN NOT, doubt, wonder, vacillate believe, not believe, believe, not sure, doubt.
A Converted man.........Does NOT REQUIRE Warnings....to make sure he is believing on the day he dies........HE HAS ALREADY BODILY DIED......! He is ALREADY a MADE NEW creature.

Your Scriptural Warning reference, APPLIES to a WOBBLY UNSURE man.

You may very well WARN a child to LOOK both ways to cross a street.
In essence what you are teaching is you would KEEP Warning that same child AFTER he has crossed the street!

A Converted man HAS ALREADY crossed the threshold of bodily Death, and Received His Salvation. He requires NO WARNING to KEEP Believing......Gods POWER IS IN THAT man, and KEEPS that mans BELIEF IN that man FOREVER!

 

[Taken]

Yes, and yes.

So, you have the Power to forgive sin?
So, you would answer the following two scriptures...
By saying ‘YOU’ have the power to forgive sin...IS that correct?

Mark 2:
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke.5
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You hold fast in faith to the one who keeps you saved.

How?

How?
By not denying Christ and letting the word you heard at first remain in you:

23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.26I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.​

Do that and you will remain in the Son and the Father and they will remain in you. That is how you hold fast to the One who keeps you saved.

"9Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son." 2 John 1:9​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How does A Converted man WITH THE Spirit (POWER) of God “IN” him,
NOT “hold on to his faith”?

Isn’t THAT God’s Power “IN” that man “FAILING” to keep that man “IN” faith?

Think what you want about that. It doesn't change the fact that the Bible exhorts us to hold on in faith. Just because it may be a given that the true believer will indeed hold on in faith doesn't change the fact that the Bible tells us to do just that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What you are saying, IS.....ALL men ARE WAITING For Jesus’ RETURN...
So they can “THEN” BECOME SAVED?



So, Again...You for example...BELIEVE, and MUST continue to BELIEVE, until Jesus COMES BACK...SO you “WILL” be SAVED?

Yes, saved through the coming Judgment of fire.
If you notice in Matthew 25:32-33 people are already divided up goat and sheep before Christ passes judgement on them. Just because there is a judgment of fire that we still have to be saved through doesn't mean we aren't already saved in this life. Of course, you have to be saved in this life to be saved through the coming fire. If you have made peace with God through Jesus in this life and are saved you will also be saved from His wrath when Jesus comes back.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, you have the Power to forgive sin?
So, you would answer the following two scriptures...
By saying ‘YOU’ have the power to forgive sin...IS that correct?

Mark 2:
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke.5
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

Every believer has the power, and the responsibility to forgive those who sin against them.

"14For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matthew 6:14-15​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

A Converted man.........IS NOT “WAITING” to BECOME Saved AFTER he PHYSICALLY Dies.

A converted man is not waiting for salvation as in becoming born again and a new creation in Christ now at peace with God. He's waiting for the coming Judgment of fire when Jesus returns. If he is born again he will be saved through that fire. It will not touch him. If he is not born again he will not be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus returns.