Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Stranger]

At one time, Jesus Himself called Peter "Satan" too. !!

But Jesus said of Judas that he 'is' a devil. His comment to Peter was to satan who was influencing Peter.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Judas was a devil when Christ chose him.

Stranger

NOWHERE does Scripture say that.
Jesus said, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you IS a devil.”
He didn't say, "And yet one of you WAS a devil."

You're playing with the text again . . .

 

[Stranger]

Then explain to me what "gymnastics" I performed other than simply presenting the Greek..
Can you do that?

It has been too long ago. But, I remember.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not so. We know the disciples cast out demons and healed the sick. Nothing is said who did what.

And Jesus identified Judas as a devil long before the devil entered. (John 6:70)

Stranger

WRONG.
The Gospel of John is NOT one of the synoptic Gospels and doe NOT correlate in the same chronology as the other 3 Gospels.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It has been too long ago. But, I remember.

Stranger

Translation:
"Woops - I stuck my foot in my mouth and you caught me again!"

 

[Stranger]

WRONG.
You are taking the parable out of its proper context - as you usually do.

The entire chapter of Luke 15 is about LOST children of God.

It starts out with the Parable of the Lost Sheep. The Gospel tells us over and over who the "Sheep" are. they belong to Christ (John 10:27).

Then Jesus tells of the Parable of the Lost Coin.
AGAIN - something that belongs to the master and is LOST - then found.

He sums up with the Parable of the Prodigal Son - where AGAIN, the Son belongs to the Father - is LOST, then found.
You are completely out-gunned by Scripture here . . .

Was that sheep in the wilderness redeemed before it was lost?

Was that coin redeemed before it was lost?

Was the son redeemed before he was lost?

Pay attention. The prodigal son is a story of salvation. Being lost and found. It is not a story of being redeemed, then losing salvation, then being saved. And that is what you are making it.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

But Jesus said of Judas that he 'is' a devil.

Yup - "IS" a devil now - not "WAS" a devil when he was chosen.

His comment to Peter was to satan who was influencing Peter.
Stranger

Thank you for admitting that.
MOST anti-Catholics use this verse to denigrate Peter.

 

[Stranger]

Tell that to God, my arrogant and presumptuous friend . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Matt. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’."

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Nice grocery list. I remember that of you too.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

WRONG.
The Gospel of John is NOT one of the synoptic Gospels and doe NOT correlate in the same chronology as the other 3 Gospels.

So, it still occurred long before satan entered Judas.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Translation:
"Woops - I stuck my foot in my mouth and you caught me again!"

No, just too far back to hunt down.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Was that sheep in the wilderness redeemed before it was lost?

Was that coin redeemed before it was lost?

Was the son redeemed before he was lost?

Pay attention. The prodigal son is a story of salvation. Being lost and found. It is not a story of being redeemed, then losing salvation, then being saved. And that is what you are making it.

Stranger

The common denominator is that they all belonged to the master.
Show me a Gospel precedent for the "sheep" being illustrated as ANYTHING other than belonging to the Lord.

Sorry - but the weight of Scripture is against you.
As I told you before - the entire context of Luke 15 is about believers who LOSE their way. In the chapter preceding this - Jesus tells a few other parables with the SAME theme, especially the salt losing its taste.

In Matt. 5:13 - Jesus CLEARLY explains WHO the "salt" is -= and it is the believer.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, it still occurred long before satan entered Judas.
Stranger

But NOT necessarily before He sent out the Twelve to heal the sick and cast out demons . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Look Stranger - the best thing for you to do at this time is to humble yourself before the Lord - admit that you are wrong and that Scripture has defeated your argument.

 

[Stranger]

Yup - "IS" a devil now - not "WAS" a devil when he was chosen.

Thank you for admitting that.
MOST anti-Catholics use this verse to denigrate Peter.

Christ's words are clear. (John 6:70) "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Judas was a devil when Christ chose him.

'Admitting'? I am not admitting. I am stating what I believe to be true in the Scriptures. More of your 'word gymnastics'.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

But NOT necessarily before He sent out the Twelve to heal the sick and cast out demons . . .

Judas was a devil when Christ chose him. "and one of you is a devil"

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Look Stranger - the best thing for you to do at this time is to humble yourself before the Lord - admit that you are wrong and that Scripture has defeated your argument.

Answer my post #266.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Answer my post #266.

Stranger

I already DID in post #271.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Christ's words are clear. (John 6:70) "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Judas was a devil when Christ chose him.

'Admitting'? I am not admitting. I am stating what I believe to be true in the Scriptures. More of your 'word gymnastics'.

Stranger

That's NOT what it says.
It says that Judas IS a devil - now. It doesn't say that he WAS a devil when he was chosen.

A devil cannot cast out a demon in the name of Christ or heal the sick.

 

[Stranger]

The common denominator is that they all belonged to the master.
Show me a Gospel precedent for the "sheep" being illustrated as ANYTHING other than belonging to the Lord.

Sorry - but the weight of Scripture is against you.
As I told you before - the entire context of Luke 15 is about believers who LOSE their way. In the chapter preceding this - Jesus tells a few other parables with the SAME theme, especially the salt losing its taste.

In Matt. 5:13 - Jesus CLEARLY explains WHO the "salt" is -= and it is the believer.

No, you are placing the believers in a saved state before they are lost. And they are not. Indeed they all belong to the Father, but they are not in a redeemed state prior to their being in a lost state. ANd that is what you are saying.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you are placing the believers in a saved state before they are lost. And they are not. Indeed they all belong to the Father, but they are not in a redeemed state prior to their being in a lost state. ANd that is what you are saying.

Stranger

Then SHOW me a Gospel precedent where the "Sheep" are shown to be anything OTHER than belonging to Christ.
Just ONE verse . . .