Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Stranger]

That's NOT what it says.
It says that Judas IS a devil - now. It doesn't say that he WAS a devil when he was chosen.

A devil cannot cast out a demon in the name of Christ or heal the sick.

And we are not told that Judas cast out any demons or healed anyone.

Right...Judas is a devil. He doesn't become a devil. He is a devil. That is what he was when Christ chose him.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

But Jesus said of Judas that he 'is' a devil. His comment to Peter was to satan who was influencing Peter.

Stranger

Well we will just have to disagree on what this means then.
Judas was flesh and blood...I agree that Satan inhabited him for the act that he did. Satan thought that he was destroying Jesus...the seed of the women who would crush his head.
There is only one Satan...he is not omnipresent. He did not STAY in Judas. He has other work to do.
As I said...I don't believe that .." he is a devil"... meant any more than Peters comment, and Jesus knowing that Satan was influencing him.
"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" "a devil" means "influenced by evil" Check it out. I did.
We know that Judas was influenced by evil.
The lot fell on him. We do NOT know the end of his story yet.
We can make all the assumptions that we like...not one of us, knows.

But, as my old dad used to say :- 'A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still. '

I believe what I believe...and it will all be proven right or wrong at the end of time.
Bless you ...

 

[BreadOfLife]

And we are not told that Judas cast out any demons or healed anyone.

Right...Judas is a devil. He doesn't become a devil. He is a devil. That is what he was when Christ chose him.

Stranger

And that's not what the Bible says. It says that Judas IS a devil - not that he WAS a devil when chosen.

And the Bible DOES say that Judas was one of the "Twelve" who cast out demons AND/OR healed the sick.
Just admit that Scripture is right and YOU are wrong . . .

 

[Stranger]

Then SHOW me a Gospel precedent where the "Sheep" are shown to be anything OTHER than belonging to Christ.
Just ONE verse . . .

You're not following. The sheep are not lost till they are lost. If they are in possession of the Father, then they are not lost. But once they are lost, then they must be found or redeemed.

Do you see? You are making the sheep who haven't been lost as redeemed.

Again, the prodigal son is a picture of salvation. Not a loss of salvation.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

You're not following. The sheep are not lost till they are lost. If they are in possession of the Father, then they are not lost. But once they are lost, then they must be found or redeemed.

Do you see? You are making the sheep who haven't been lost as redeemed.

Again, the prodigal son is a picture of salvation. Not a loss of salvation.

Stranger

And to BECOME one of Christ's Sheep - you must be born again.

This is talking about BORN AGAIN Sheep who LOST their way.
The Prodigal Son is an example of a born again believer who LOSES his way - then repents and regains his salvation.

 

[Stranger]

And that's not what the Bible says. It says that Judas IS a devil - not that he WAS a devil when chosen.

And the Bible DOES say that Judas was one of the "Twelve" who cast out demons AND/OR healed the sick.
Just admit that Scripture is right and YOU are wrong . . .

One of the twelve, yes. That the twelve went about healing and casting out demons, yes. But we are not told that Judas did.

Yes, Judas 'is' a devil. Not he will become a devil. That is what he is and what he was when Christ chose him.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

And to BECOME one of Christ's Sheep - you must be born again.

This is talking about BORN AGAIN Sheep who LOST their way.
The Prodigal Son is an example of a born again believer who LOSES his way - then repents and regains his salvation.

No, you're placing the believer in a saved state before he was lost. It doesn't work.

Stranger

 

[Job]

Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


I don't believe Jesus makes empty threats. His statement, "He that overcomes, I will not blot out his name" indicates that it's possible to have a name blotted from the Book of Life.

If ones name is in the Book of Life, their salvation is assured. If ones name is removed from the Book of Life, their salvation is lost.


Revelation 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

o

 

[Dcopymope]

Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


I don't believe Jesus makes empty threats. His statement, "He that overcomes, I will not blot out his name" indicates that it's possible to have a name blotted from the Book of Life.

If ones name is in the Book of Life, their salvation is assured. If ones name is removed from the Book of Life, their salvation is lost.


Revelation 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

o

Yep, like I said before, your name is either in the book of life or it isn't, and your name can be erased out of it just like it can out of any other book.

 

[BreadOfLife]

One of the twelve, yes. That the twelve went about healing and casting out demons, yes. But we are not told that Judas did.

Yes, Judas 'is' a devil. Not he will become a devil. That is what he is and what he was when Christ chose him.

Stranger

Show me the verse that says Judas was a devil BEFORE Jesus chose him.
It doesn't exist.

YOUR problem - besides a terminal case of spiritual pride - is the fact that you argue for the sake of arguing.
You are completely out-gunned here by Scripture and you are too prideful to admit it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you're placing the believer in a saved state before he was lost. It doesn't work.

Stranger

Sorry - but that's what the text says.
EVERY instance in the Gospel where Jesus speaks of His "Sheep" - He is speaking about BORN AGAIN believers.

 

[Stranger]

Show me the verse that says Judas was a devil BEFORE Jesus chose him.
It doesn't exist.

YOUR problem - besides a terminal case of spiritual pride - is the fact that you argue for the sake of arguing.
You are completely out-gunned here by Scripture and you are too prideful to admit it . . .

I've showed you a verse that proves Judas was a devil when Jesus chose him. We are not told anything about Judas before that.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Sorry - but that's what the text says.
EVERY instance in the Gospel where Jesus speaks of His "Sheep" - He is speaking about BORN AGAIN believers.

No, that is what you are saying.

That sheep represent the people of God...yes. That the prodigal son story shows a loss of salvation...no.

The prodigal son story is a picture of salvation. Not a loss of salvation.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

I've showed you a verse that proves Judas was a devil when Jesus chose him. We are not told anything about Judas before that.

Stranger

No - you showed me the verse where Jesus says that Judas "IS" a devil - not that he WAS a devil when Her chose him.

Stop trying to usurp the Word of God.
This is as pathetic as watching a blindfolded person get pummeled in a boxing ring . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, that is what you are saying.

That sheep represent the people of God...yes. That the prodigal son story shows a loss of salvation...no.

The prodigal son story is a picture of salvation. Not a loss of salvation.

Stranger

"Sheep" are always speaking about BORN AGAIN believers.
ALWAYS.

 

[Stranger]

No - you showed me the verse where Jesus says that Judas "IS" a devil - not that he WAS a devil when Her chose him.

Stop trying to usurp the Word of God.
This is as pathetic as watching a blindfolded person get pummeled in a boxing ring . . .

That is right. That is what Judas is, a devil.

Note how the disciples were decieved. (John 6:69) "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ..." Which is why Jesus said, (70), "have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil"

Jesus always knew who Judas was. A devil.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is right. That is what Judas is, a devil.

Note how the disciples were decieved. (John 6:69) "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ..." Which is why Jesus said, (70), "have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil"

Jesus always knew who Judas was. A devil.

Stranger

So, are you saying that God created a devil - that God is the author of evil??
That is a heresy.

Are you saying that Judas could have healed the sick and cast out demons as a devil??
That is also a heresy.

 

[Stranger]

"Sheep" are always speaking about BORN AGAIN believers.
ALWAYS.

(John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

So, are you saying that God created a devil - that God is the author of evil??
That is a heresy.

Are you saying that Judas could have healed the sick and cast out demons as a devil??
That is also a heresy.

Well, God created the devil...didn't he?

No, you're the one that was saying that.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

(John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."

Stranger

This is really pathetic, Stranger.
In this verse - Jesus is talking to the Jewish leaders that were NOT of His sheep - which are His flock.

Are you really THAT full of pride that you can't admit when you are wrong about what the Bible teaches??