Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[BreadOfLife]

Joh_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

guess who He was speaking of.

And, as I schooled your friend Stranger - we know when the devil entered Judas (Luke 22:3).
Before that - he cast out demons and healed the sick (Mark 6:7-13) . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

How would the Sanhedrin been able to try Immanuel were it not for Judas pointing him out to the temple guard that sought him in the garden?
Immanuel knew Judas' purpose. Which is why He told Judas to do what he had to do quickly. It was all part of God's plan so that Immanuel , God with us, could accomplish the mission of salvation for the world.

Judas still made the choice to do it. God didn't create Judas just so He could throw him in Hell. Only a Calvinist would believe that.

Before Judas chose to do evil - he cast out demons and healed the sick (Mark 6:7-3).

 

[bbyrd009]

I notice that Judas is here on the chopping block.

Lets not forget...Jesus chose Judas!!!
( now this could get a bit sticky with some )...but just as God has used Satan the Tempter, Adversary , ....so Jesus used Judas.
But that is just my opinion.

i'd like to believe the same thing, but Judas is condemned by Scripture, imo for good reason, even if that is not pointing Jesus out to the Sanhedrin, as is intimated.

 

[BreadOfLife]

i'd like to believe the same thing, but Judas is condemned by Scripture, imo for good reason, even if that is not pointing Jesus out to the Sanhedrin, as is intimated.

Do you believe, as the Calvinists - that God created Judas just so He could throw him in Hell?
Do you believe, as Scripture teaches - that Judas cast out demons and healed the sick (Mark 6:7-3)?

 

[Helen]

i'd like to believe the same thing, but Judas is condemned by Scripture, imo for good reason, even if that is not pointing Jesus out to the Sanhedrin, as is intimated.

Hi there
As I said...it's just my opinion.

My other opinion is...that Judas should have and could have,...but did not...go back to Jesus, fall at His feet weeping. But he foolishly felt, and we probably would have too... that there was no place of repentance for him.
While there is still breath in our body, there is always a place of repentance.

Judas, in his grief, hung himself, he did not enjoy the fruit of his betrayal. I expect to see him in heaven....as I says...just MY opinion

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you believe, as the Calvinists - that God created Judas just so He could throw him in Hell?
Do you believe, as Scripture teaches - that Judas cast out demons and healed the sick (Mark 6:7-3)?

well, Scripture also tells us that Judas was "condemned." After what seems to me to be rebounding (repenting), showing remorse, etc. But also committing suicide. So pretty multi faceted.

imo Judas reps those Christians who insist that Jesus will bodily come and assume a crown for an earthly kingdom someday, as was likely Judas' intent--to manipulate Jesus into assuming physical control of Israel. Ergo must be condemned. Not that i don't still have problems with that lol

 

[Stranger]

It says that the Twelve healed the sick and cast out demons (Mark 6:7-13).
It DIN'T say, the "Eleven".

Now - can anybody but a child of God cast out demons in Christ's name??

Jesus called the 12 unto Him. He sent them out two by two. It doesn't say Judas cast out demons. That the disciples did cast out demons and heal many, yes. It never indicates who did what. You don't know if everyone of them cast out a devil.

But we do know Judas was a devil. (John 6:70)

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi there
As I said...it's just my opinion.

My other opinion is...that Judas should have and could have,...but did not...go back to Jesus, fall at His feet weeping. But he foolishly felt, and we probably would have too... that there was no place of repentance for him.
While there is still breath in our body, there is always a place of repentance.

Judas, in his grief, hung himself, he did not enjoy the fruit of his betrayal. I expect to see him in heaven....as I says...just MY opinion

ya, i pretty much agree, except for the anyone seeing anyone in heaven part.

 

[Helen]

PS ..bbyrd009 ....Lets not forget...the man named legion had hundreds of devils in him..yet amazingly he could still "fall at the feet of Jesus..."

 

[Stranger]

Your ignorance of Greek is no reason to call those who are familiar with it "Greek spinners". That's the language the NT was written in - in case you didn't know.

Sorry of the truth is too heavy for you . . .

I have seen your gymnastics with the Greek before.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus called the 12 unto Him. He sent them out two by two. It doesn't say Judas cast out demons. That the disciples did cast out demons and heal many, yes. It never indicates who did what. You don't know if everyone of them cast out a devil.

But we do know Judas was a devil. (John 6:70)

Stranger

You're playing desperate little games with the text.

It says that the TWELVE cast out demons and healed the sick. We know that they ALL did one or the other.
We also know WHEN the devil entered Judas (Luke 22:3).

 

[Helen]

But we do know Judas was a devil. (John 6:70)

Stranger

At one time, Jesus Himself called Peter "Satan" too. !!

 

[BreadOfLife]

well, Scripture also tells us that Judas was "condemned." After what seems to me to be rebounding (repenting), showing remorse, etc. But also committing suicide. So pretty multi faceted.

imo Judas reps those Christians who insist that Jesus will bodily come and assume a crown for an earthly kingdom someday, as was likely Judas' intent--to manipulate Jesus into assuming physical control of Israel. Ergo must be condemned. Not that i don't still have problems with that lol

Where does Scripture say that Judas was "condemned"?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have seen your gymnastics with the Greek before.

Stranger

Then explain to me what "gymnastics" I performed other than simply presenting the Greek..
Can you do that?

 

[Stranger]

Are you spiritually-DEAD like the Prodigal Son before finding your way back?

The prodigal is a picture of salvation. Of that I agree. It is not a picture of a loss of salvation. You are placing the prodigal in a saved state prior to his leaving. He wasn't in a saved state. He was in unmarred state as a son with the Father. He was not redeemed.

To see the son before he left the father is to go back to Adam before the fall. Adam was not in a saved state. He was in a natural sinless state with God. He was not redeemed at that time.

Thus, again, the prodigal son is a picture of salvation, not loss of salvation.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You won't know that until you are judged.
Have you gone through the Judgement??

Besides - WE choose where we will spend eternity - not God.
He simply judges what we chose to do.

Sure I do. I know it now. (John 3:18) (Rom. 8:33-34)

Yes, I have gone through the judgement in Christ. He bore it all.

Really? (John 1:13)

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

The prodigal is a picture of salvation. Of that I agree. It is not a picture of a loss of salvation. You are placing the prodigal in a saved state prior to his leaving. He wasn't in a saved state. He was in unmarred state as a son with the Father. He was not redeemed.

To see the son before he left the father is to go back to Adam before the fall. Adam was not in a saved state. He was in a natural sinless state with God. He was not redeemed at that time.

Thus, again, the prodigal son is a picture of salvation, not loss of salvation.

Stranger

WRONG.
You are taking the parable out of its proper context - as you usually do.

The entire chapter of Luke 15 is about LOST children of God.

It starts out with the Parable of the Lost Sheep. The Gospel tells us over and over who the "Sheep" are. they belong to Christ (John 10:27).

Then Jesus tells of the Parable of the Lost Coin.
AGAIN - something that belongs to the master and is LOST - then found.

He sums up with the Parable of the Prodigal Son - where AGAIN, the Son belongs to the Father - is LOST, then found.
You are completely out-gunned by Scripture here . . .

 

[Stranger]

Judas still made the choice to do it. God didn't create Judas just so He could throw him in Hell. Only a Calvinist would believe that.

Before Judas chose to do evil - he cast out demons and healed the sick (Mark 6:7-3).

Judas was a devil when Christ chose him.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sure I do. I know it now. (John 3:18) (Rom. 8:33-34)

Yes, I have gone through the judgement in Christ. He bore it all.

Really? (John 1:13)

Stranger

Tell that to God, my arrogant and presumptuous friend . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Matt. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’."

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

[Stranger]

You're playing desperate little games with the text.

It says that the TWELVE cast out demons and healed the sick. We know that they ALL did one or the other.
We also know WHEN the devil entered Judas (Luke 22:3).

Not so. We know the disciples cast out demons and healed the sick. Nothing is said who did what.

And Jesus identified Judas as a devil long before the devil entered. (John 6:70)

Stranger