Salvation really?

[Rach1370]

The most bizarre and contradictory comment I have ever read from a Christian Rach.

This is between you and your god, none of my business, you can explain it to God at Judgement day.

God bless.

Wow...you have issues. One apparently being that you give less credit to what Jesus says than what I give to your views....and that's very little.
So, you can accuse me of worshipping a false god, but I don't care at all. I follow Jesus, not you. I hope one day you step beyond your apparent enslavement to the law and discover the joy and freedom of grace...how living with your eyes set steadily on Jesus can bring us closer to God than desperately trying to follow (and failing as every single person did...or are you better than King David?) the old laws ever could. You are as blind as the Pharisees were.

 

[Episkopos]

I believe we already have made clear what we believe...what scripture clearly states. But to clarify...I believe that Jesus Himself tells us that by loving God with everything we have and are, and worshipping only God and by showing His love for us by loving others, we avoid from breaking any of the 10 commandments.



No Idolatry...that comes under only worshipping God. So we haven't broken this or said it's ok to.



No Idolatry...again, that comes under only worshipping God.



Not taking the Lords name in vain, not misusing it....that would be something we avoid if we love God and worship only Him.



The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27). Jesus tells the Pharisees that they have missed the point of this 'day of rest'. We who worship on Sunday's...the day Christ was raised from the dead...spend the day with loved one, praising and loving our God, practising hospitality and service. In no way can this be seen as 'willfully breaking the commandment'. I don't think it matters when the Church gathers to worship, just that they do. I also think that God in His love and wisdom knew that men tend to want to 'scurry' to and fro. We need time to rest, take a break, look at what matters...our families and most importantly, our God. This is what the Sabbath was for...and by loving and worshipping God, we keep this alive and well. By drawing aside from life...even in the moments of our quiet times, we honour the Sabbath and our God.



By honouring those around you...especially the people who raised you, you are showing your love and obedience to God and showing His love. That comes in under loving and worshipping God and loving others.




This is a bit of a no brainer! By loving God and others, you're not gonna murder!



By loving others you will respect them...and not steal from them.



Again, this would fall into loving both God and others.



Ditto. So, I hope that clears it up. I do not wilfully break any of the 10...but I do not follow them either. I follow Jesus, who fulfilled the law. He completed it, and completion doesn't require ongoing work. He came and set us free from the law, giving us this simplicity: Love God, Love others. By doing that we are keeping the very spirit of the completed law. The old is trumped by something unbelievably important...the promise and knowledge that even should we falter and stumble, He will love us and extend grace to us still. That was something the old law just could not do...it could only demand perfect righteousness from fallen creatures, without giving love and power to repent, get back up again and give glory to God by going forward in His name!

Very good! Somehow you seem to agree with Jesus that by obeying the laws to love God and your neighbour you are fulfilling the whole commandment of God! Mere coincidence? I think not!

The most bizarre and contradictory comment I have ever read from a Christian Rach.

This is between you and your god, none of my business, you can explain it to God at Judgement day.

God bless.

Yes, to some the idea of following Christ instead of just taking a breather from time to time seems completely out of touch with reality...

Truthseeker:

You are the victim of an indoctrination.

Who taught you this emphasis?

Which man do you follow?

 

[Rach1370]

Very good! Somehow you seem to agree with Jesus that by obeying the laws to love God and your neighbour you are fulfilling the whole commandment of God! Mere coincidence? I think not!

Is there a problem with agreeing with Jesus? Is there a problem in doing as He says? You would do very well to go back and read what Jesus says in regards to the Pharisees and those He tells to repent, and also Paul, on his words about keeping the law. You still have a lot to learn.

Yes, to some the idea of following Christ instead of just taking a breather from time to time seems completely out of touch with reality...

Truthseeker:

You are the victim of an indoctrination.

Who taught you this emphasis?

Which man do you follow?

I'm not quite sure I follow you here....'to some the idea of following Christ seems completely out of touch...' are you saying that you believe we should take a breather, or are you implying that I think that. I think it's ridiculous. We need to have our eyes fixed on Him all the time. Look at Peter. He was bold, fearless and faithful when his eyes were on Jesus, the moment he looked away, he sunk, denied and backtracked.
So, I'm a victim of indoctrination? :lol: Oh, that's funny!
The man I follow? The God man, Jesus Christ. That's all, no one else. Who do you follow??

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

I actually study the bible in Hebrew (I read biblical Hebrew) and am instructed by the Holy Spirit. ...

There are some serious problems with your comments.

1. Are you fluent in Hebrew? Yes or No? What are your credentials in Hebrew and where did you receive them? The reason I ask is that you seem to read Scripture very wrong, hence, indicating that you do not understand Hebrew well!

2. Romans 14:5 is not in Hebrew, it's Koine Greek. Do you read and understand Koine Greek fluently? Yes or No?

3. How on Earth did you misunderstand Romans 14:5 so severely, seeing you have taken Romans 14:5 out of complete context and applied to it erroneous doctrine. The whole chapter is on judging one another (Verses 4,10,13), and has nothing to do with weekly Sabbath as you suggested.

4. The Holy Spirit is not instructing you, that's impossible, because if the Holy Spirit was instructing you, then you would have realised, like all Bible students and Scholars and Theologians knows, that Romans 14 is dedicated to "judging others" and nothing to do with the Sabbath.

God bless.

Wow...you have issues. One apparently being that you give less credit to what Jesus says than what I give to your views....and that's very little.
So, you can accuse me of worshipping a false god, but I don't care at all. I follow Jesus, not you. I hope one day you step beyond your apparent enslavement to the law and discover the joy and freedom of grace...how living with your eyes set steadily on Jesus can bring us closer to God than desperately trying to follow (and failing as every single person did...or are you better than King David?) the old laws ever could. You are as blind as the Pharisees were.

Thank you Rach for your personal attacks upon me and the false accusations towards me. Thank you.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.

God bless.

 

[Angelina]

Hi Rach!
The coolest thing about the Law of the Spirit is that the original covenant [which could never wash a man's conscience from sin] Hebrews 9:9 was a shadow, a type of he who was to come and is come....Hebrews 9:8 says that " The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing.
The first tabernacle the writer speaks of is an earthly sanctuary along with regulations for worship and the priest that annually sacrificed the blood of animals on behalf of people who sinned in ignorance. The bible says that:
"They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order."Hebrews 9:10

Jesus Christ became the High priest of the heavenly sanctuary and entered the Holy Place by his own blood having obtained eternal redemption
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:14 ^_^

Blessings!!!

 

[Episkopos]

There are some serious problems with your comments.

1. Are you fluent in Hebrew? Yes or No? What are your credentials in Hebrew and where did you receive them? The reason I ask is that you seem to read Scripture very wrong, hence, indicating that you do not understand Hebrew well!

2. Romans 14:5 is not in Hebrew, it's Koine Greek. Do you read and understand Koine Greek fluently? Yes or No?

3. How on Earth did you misunderstand Romans 14:5 so severely, seeing you have taken Romans 14:5 out of complete context and applied to it erroneous doctrine. The whole chapter is on judging one another (Verses 4,10,13), and has nothing to do with weekly Sabbath as you suggested.

4. The Holy Spirit is not instructing you, that's impossible, because if the Holy Spirit was instructing you, then you would have realised, like all Bible students and Scholars and Theologians knows, that Romans 14 is dedicated to "judging others" and nothing to do with the Sabbath.

God bless.



Thank you Rach for your personal attacks upon me and the false accusations towards me. Thank you.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.

God bless.

Coming to this forum to "teach" us only reveals your lack. How can a person be taught not to be arrogant?

These forums attract all manner of people lacking in fundamental ways...they are disfunctional in the body. They are looking to "minister" to others...but are really just smokescreening their lack with a supposed "emphasis" that doesn't have anything to do with the true problems in the church.

It is just one more rabbit trail devoted to the vainglory of someone who esteems their understanding far too greatly.

We are rather to esteem others as greater and submit ourselves to others....not go looking to be exalted, and failing that...to debase others in order to exalt ourselves.

 

[Butch5]

I really get a good laugh out of all of your posts people. In the first place the bible has to be read as a whole and no single passage can be taken out of context to make it say other than the rest of the book. You are preaching another Gospel and Paul has told you that is wrong. If it does completely line up with the whole rest of the book, it is a false teaching. The New Testament does not say other than the Old Testament. Christ obeyed the Law of the Father while on this earth and you are saying that He taught other than He did? Are you saying that Paul taught another Gospel, heaven forbid. There has never been another day of worship other than the Sabbath and until He states planely that He has changed it I will not believe other wise. God does not make you use conjecture ot guessing about His Laws, as He makes sure that all have no doubt that a change has taken place. None of your posts make that destinction.
Ex 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KJV
If it is not laid out like this, then it is not a change, as you have to guess as to what possible meanings could be ment by the scripture. HE leaves Nothing to chance!!! All is evident without any guess work allowed!
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Actually Sabitarian God did say things would change. He said through the prophet Isaiah that when Christ came things would change.

[sup]KJV [/sup]Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
[sup]2[/sup] He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
[sup]3[/sup] A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. {smoking: or, dimly burning} {quench: Heb. quench it}
[sup]4[/sup] He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. {discouraged: Heb. broken}
[sup]5[/sup] Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
[sup]6[/sup] I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
[sup]7[/sup] To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
[sup]8[/sup] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
[sup]9[/sup] Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
[sup]10[/sup] Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. {all...: Heb. the fulness thereof}
[sup]11[/sup] Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

I do not TRY to obey the commandments by trying to obey them legalistically as you do.

The NewCovenant is about a relationship and proximity to God in the Spirit. THAT is our sabbath rest...to cease from dead works...7 days a week. To cease from our own thoughts and judgments....7 days a week. To walk in a new grace power that overcomes all sin...7 days a week.

Turn to Christ!

Isa_65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; (as in efforts at law keeping)


Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.


Jesus Christ came as the Lord of the sabbath. We are to abide in Him and walk exactly as He walked...IN fellowship with Him and the brethren. THAT is the fulfillment of the law and the true keeping of the Sabbath.

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Paul was speaking of the Mosaic Law there, not obedience to Christ, there is a big difference.

 

[Rach1370]

Thank you Rach for your personal attacks upon me and the false accusations towards me. Thank you.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.

God bless.

Wow...so you're allowed to say that I'm spouting a contradictory gospel, that I've got it coming on Judgement day, that I follow a false god and also a man...but when I say that I think you have issues, and then repeat what I believe, doctrine wise, I'm making false accusations and attacks upon your person? I suppose the nonsensical nature of that reasoning follows.....

Hi Rach!
The coolest thing about the Law of the Spirit is that the original covenant [which could never wash a man's conscience from sin] Hebrews 9:9 was a shadow, a type of he who was to come and is come....Hebrews 9:8 says that " The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing.
The first tabernacle the writer speaks of is an earthly sanctuary along with regulations for worship and the priest that annually sacrificed the blood of animals on behalf of people who sinned in ignorance. The bible says that:
"They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order."Hebrews 9:10

Jesus Christ became the High priest of the heavenly sanctuary and entered the Holy Place by his own blood having obtained eternal redemption
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:14 ^_^

Blessings!!!

Amen...I totally agree! How wonderful is it that we no longer have to rely on our own ability to be set right with God! Relying on Jesus is such a better idea!!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Coming to this forum to "teach" us only reveals your lack. How can a person be taught not to be arrogant?

These forums attract all manner of people lacking in fundamental ways...they are disfunctional in the body. They are looking to "minister" to others...but are really just smokescreening their lack with a supposed "emphasis" that doesn't have anything to do with the true problems in the church.

It is just one more rabbit trail devoted to the vainglory of someone who esteems their understanding far too greatly.

We are rather to esteem others as greater and submit ourselves to others....not go looking to be exalted, and failing that...to debase others in order to exalt ourselves.

Hey Episkopos, how come you sidestepped my questions AGAIN?

Are you fluent in Hebrew? Yes or No? What are your credentials in Hebrew and where did you receive them?

God bless.

...
Amen...I totally agree! How wonderful is it that we no longer have to rely on our own ability to be set right with God! Relying on Jesus is such a better idea!!

AMEN

But once we are right with Father God through Jesus, what are we asked to do Rach? Please tell me. Are we asked to willfully break any of the 10 Commandments once we have been saved by faith + grace and made right with God through Jesus? Yes or No?

God bless.

 

[Rach1370]

AMEN

But once we are right with Father God through Jesus, what are we asked to do Rach? Please tell me. Are we asked to willfully break any of the 10 Commandments once we have been saved by faith + grace and made right with God through Jesus? Yes or No?

God bless.

Im starting to wonder just what it is you're exactly fishing for. I know you wish someone to answer you simply "no", it's not ok...but your context cannot be answered by a simple no. You cannot hold to both grace by faith in Christ alone, and also to upholding the old laws. Read Hebrews.
As far "wilfully breaking the 10"...I don't know that anyone here has said that they do that or that it's ok to do that. Just as it's wrong to live each day by a check list of things you've done, it's wrong to live by a check list of things you've broken.
No, we live by faith in Christ, given to us by Christ. And by that faith we walk with Him, striving to put sin away from us and grow in knowledge of Him for His glory. Jesus tells us how to do that...by loving and worshipping God alone, and by loving others. Jesus tells us that ALL the law is summed up in those two commands. I tend to trust and believe in Jesus more than I do man...so that's good enough for me.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Im starting to wonder just what it is you're exactly fishing for. I know you wish someone to answer you simply "no", it's not ok...but your context cannot be answered by a simple no. You cannot hold to both grace by faith in Christ alone, and also to upholding the old laws. ..

Be careful Rach, you are making heart judgements without knowing my heart. Why is it that you get so defensive when I ask you questions? What are you so frightened off?

And I am not fishing for anything, but I was trying to understand what you teach, and it's obvious to me now that you believe that once you are saved by faith and grace alone that you are now free to break the 10 Commandment Law. That's all I needed to know. But don;t be deceived into thinking that you are free to break God's law, this is what Bible says:

Any person who willfully breaks Gods Commandments, has NO TRUTH and there is no light in them! [1John 2:4]

And in John 14:15 it says those who love Jesus will keep His Commandments.

1 John 5:3. Not only is the law not grievous for the Spirit-filled child of God, but obedience becomes a joyful possibility. The psalmist wrote, "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." Psalms 40:8.

Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Now I ask you again, hopefully you will not sidestep this time. What Commandments out of the 10 do you willfully break? Do you willfully kill or commit adultery or dishonour your parents? etc? Please list ALL the Commandments out of the 10 Commandment Law that you believe a Christian are free to willfully break.

Thank you.

God bless.

 

[Rach1370]

Be careful Rach, you are making heart judgements without knowing my heart. Why is it that you get so defensive when I ask you questions? What are you so frightened off?

I'm not making judgements...If I were, I would have said "I know what your thinking"....rather than "I wonder".
I'm not defensive or scared. Being either would imply you've got me backed into a corner...which you haven't. What's going on here is you're trying to prove something unbiblical, and I'm disagreeing. Simple.

And I am not fishing for anything, but I was trying to understand what you teach, and it's obvious to me now that you believe that once you are saved by faith and grace alone that you are now free to break the 10 Commandment Law. That's all I needed to know.

But fishing is exactly what it is. You ask the same question again and again, even when others and myself have answered you. Conclusion...we are not giving you the answer you're looking for...so you keep asking.
I'm not trying to teach anything. I am not a teacher, not trying to push what I believe on others. If I speak the truth the Spirit may use that to open the eyes of others...that's all I care about. No, I'm not trying to teach, but am only sharing what I believe...since you asked.
And your assumption that I endorse the 'breaking of the 10 commandments', only show that you really weren't reading my replies before. Being saved by grace through faith does not give us the right to licentiousness. Anyone who engages in such are proving that they truly have no idea of what the gospel entails...that they have not been truly regenerated.
What I have been saying is this: Jesus brought the old law to completion. It no longer rules our lives...He does.

But don;t be deceived into thinking that you are free to break God's law, this is what Bible says:

Any person who willfully breaks Gods Commandments, has NO TRUTH and there is no light in them! [1John 2:4]

And in John 14:15 it says those who love Jesus will keep His Commandments.

1 John 5:3. Not only is the law not grievous for the Spirit-filled child of God, but obedience becomes a joyful possibility. The psalmist wrote, "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." Psalms 40:8.

You will note that both of those verses tell us to keep the commandments HE gives...as in Jesus. So when we show you this:

And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:37-40 ESV)

Or this:

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:8-10 ESV)

So, it's as I said: I follow the commands of Jesus, and Jesus said that by loving God and others, we are fulfilling the law. His words, not mine.

Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

No one has said that just because we are under grace we are free to sin. But keeping the OT law is no longer necessary in the same way it was...Christ has changed all that. The law was given to make us aware of our sin, to show us just how far we are from God, how rebellious. It was a provision God gave us while we waited for Jesus to come, to set us free from trying to follow laws no human could keep perfectly.

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20 ESV)

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
(Galatians 3:19-26 ESV)

Now I ask you again, hopefully you will not sidestep this time. What Commandments out of the 10 do you willfully break? Do you willfully kill or commit adultery or dishonour your parents? etc? Please list ALL the Commandments out of the 10 Commandment Law that you believe a Christian are free to willfully break.

Thank you.

God bless.

I'm not side stepping. I'm answering you plainly. I do not wilfully break any of the commandments, but only because I do my best to follow Jesus' commands above of Loving God and others. As He says, by following those, I follow all.
Now, honestly...if you feel you have to ask again...then I'm afraid it's not fishing, it's just dullness.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

.....
I'm not side stepping. I'm answering you plainly. I do not wilfully break any of the commandments, but only because I do my best to follow Jesus' commands above of Loving God and others. As He says, by following those, I follow all.
Now, honestly...if you feel you have to ask again...then I'm afraid it's not fishing, it's just dullness.

Ok Rach, FINALLY you admitted that it's still valid for a Christian to follow and obey the 10 Commandments.

So you are a Sabbath keeping Christian like me then, right? Because surely you don't willfully break one of the 10 Commandments...do you? You don't willfully break any of the other 9 Commandments from the 10, right? Yes or No?

God bless.

 

[Rach1370]

Ok Rach, FINALLY you admitted that it's still valid for a Christian to follow and obey the 10 Commandments.

So you are a Sabbath keeping Christian like me then, right? Because surely you don't willfully break one of the 10 Commandments...do you? You don't willfully break any of the other 9 Commandments from the 10, right? Yes or No?

God bless.

Oh my goodness, you are something special.
Who gives a flying hoot on which day I worship Jesus? He sure doesn't...and I think that's all that really matters!

Let me ask you this...do you have a check list of the 10 that you tick each day? Do you take into consideration that Jesus said that if we think angry thoughts we're murders or if we have lustful thoughts we are adulterers? That would probably mess up your score card, wouldn't it? Or are you hanging it all on the 'but involuntary thoughts are not wilful'? Because that's a hook that's gonna pull out of the wall with just air resting on it!

Plus...you might be interested to know that the only people in the state I live who worship on a Saturday have some seriously dodgy doctrine. I don't care what day I worship on, but I'm not sitting in a pew listening to someone spout false doctrines. That's just stupid, and I think you'll agree Jesus wouldn't endorse that at all.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Oh my goodness, you are something special.
Who gives a flying hoot on which day I worship Jesus? He sure doesn't......

Oh dear oh dear This reminds me of the verse that says: "They say, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says'--when the LORD has not spoken."

You can explain your willful disobedience to God at Judgement day, but don't be deceived, those who do not do God's will will never enter heaven.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

And it's God's will that His children keep the Sabbath day Holy, hence He wrote it into the 10 Commandments and other places. The Sabbath is a sign between you and God, and separates you from the world and other false gods and religions. Ezekiel 20:12,20. But it is not kept out of bondage or legalism, but out of love, loyalty and freedom. And it's not just a question over a day but about loyalty.

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

There are millions of Christians in the world today who have made a decision to STOP being loyal to the Pope and instead have come back to obedience in Christ.

There are over 500 different Christian denominations in the world now that keep Sabbath day Holy and have refused to bow down to the Pope and instead have come back to Christ for complete allegiance and loyalty.

And here are millions of Christians and hundreds of Christian denominations which want to be loyal to Jesus, yet you call stupid:

http://www.biblejesu...christians.html

God bless.

 

[Rach1370]

Oh dear oh dear This reminds me of the verse that says: "They say, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says'--when the LORD has not spoken."

You can explain your willful disobedience to God at Judgement day, but don't be deceived, those who do not do God's will will never enter heaven.

I have no problem in standing before God. I full well know that when I am judged it will not be my deeds that are seen, but Christ's. So, quite frankly, it's ridiculous for you to try and judge me. While entertaining, your crack pot and unbiblical fancies mean very little to me. I do concede to feeling sorry for you however. I've been reading some of your replies on other threads....and not only do you appear to have severe doctrinal issues, but your interaction with other people is lacking. If you truly are a pastor, I'd advise you seeking out a different occupation...you're not doing Jesus any favours. Honestly...try seeking before teaching.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

And it's God's will that His children keep the Sabbath day Holy, hence He wrote it into the 10 Commandments and other places. The Sabbath is a sign between you and God, and separates you from the world and other false gods and religions. Ezekiel 20:12,20. But it is not kept out of bondage or legalism, but out of love, loyalty and freedom. And it's not just a question over a day but about loyalty.

See, I would say it all about loyalty. What do days matter? God created both day and night, and seasons so that would we have something to measure time against, but over the centuries there have been different calendars, different work weeks. Can you say without doubt that the 'day of rest' that God created for us was a Saturday? Does it say Saturday in the Bible? Everything you come up with is supposition. And then you ad rampant legalism to it.

But let us just say that the "Sabbath"-the traditional day of rest in the OT was on a Saturday...that being the last day of the week. There is still enough evidence in the NT to show that the apostles gathered together with believers on a Sunday...the day Jesus rose from the dead.

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.
(Acts 20:7 ESV)

Now concerning the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ESV)

[[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. (Mark 16:9 ESV)

On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” (John 20:19 ESV)

So, you see, we are not being 'disloyal' by following in the footsteps of the disciples, of the Church fathers. Sunday, the day that our Lord rose, has very special meaning, the day that brought home His triumph against Satan, sin and death. You can continue to accuse me and others of being 'disloyal' if you want, but clearly listening to you over scripture is foolish, and just not going to happen.

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

There are millions of Christians in the world today who have made a decision to STOP being loyal to the Pope and instead have come back to obedience in Christ.

There are over 500 different Christian denominations in the world now that keep Sabbath day Holy and have refused to bow down to the Pope and instead have come back to Christ for complete allegiance and loyalty.

The Sabbath is indeed a day of rest. A day that Jesus tells us is given for man, for his benefit. By worshipping on Sunday I do not dismiss this, I do not dismiss loyalty to Jesus and you cannot prove that I do. You cannot pull out of scripture what is not there. There is nothing that says that worshipping on a Sunday is a rebellious act against God...in fact there is very little in the NT about how we as a Church should worship. Why? Because the gospel is made for every culture. It can be placed in any country in the world, in any culture, and be beautiful in it's entirety. It's all about Jesus, not about particular days, or particular songs. It's just about loving Jesus and gathering together in His name to worship Him. If you at any point put anything extra into that, you are then pushing a false gospel.

And here are millions of Christians and hundreds of Christian denominations which want to be loyal to Jesus, yet you call stupid:

http://www.biblejesu...christians.html

God bless.

No, I call listening to false doctrine stupid, not being loyal to Jesus stupid. You don't listen very well, do you? You made the assumption that just because some 'churches' around me worship on a Saturday that they must be doctrinally sound. Well, they're not. To attend such a place, just because of which day they gather, and then sit and listen to heresy, is not just stupid, it's destructive.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

.......But let us just say that the "Sabbath"-the traditional day of rest in the OT was on a Saturday...that being the last day of the week. There is still enough evidence in the NT to show that the apostles gathered together with believers on a Sunday...the day Jesus rose from the dead.

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.
(Acts 20:7 ESV)
So, you see, we are not being 'disloyal' by following in the footsteps of the disciples, of the Church fathers. Sunday, the day that our Lord rose, has very special meaning,.,..

There was so many biblical errors in your statements I don't know where to start for correction, but let me address this:

1. The problem you have is that Sunday has no Biblical support, even though it has "meaning" for you, you still have NO Bible support for it.

2. I better explain Acts 20:7 to you seeing you have completely misunderstood the verse and taken it out of complete context:

According to the Bible, each day begins at sundown and ends at the next sundown (Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31; Leviticus 23:32) and the dark part of the day comes first.

So Sabbath begins Friday night at sundown and ends Saturday night at sundown. This meeting of Acts 20 was held on the dark part of Sunday, or on what we now call Saturday night. The New English Bible begins Acts 20:7 like this: "On the Saturday night in our assembly ..." It was a Saturday-night meeting, and it lasted until midnight.

Paul was on a farewell tour and knew he would not see these people again before his death (verse 25). No wonder he preached so long! (No regular weekly service would have lasted all night.) Paul was "ready to depart on the morrow." The "breaking of bread" has no "holy day" significance whatsoever, because they broke bread daily (Acts 2:46).

There is not the slightest indication in this Scripture passage that the first day is holy, nor that these early Christians considered it so. Nor is there the remotest evidence that the Sabbath had been changed. Incidentally, this meeting is probably mentioned in the Scripture only because of the miracle of raising Eutychus back to life after he fell to his death from a second-floor window. In Ezekiel 46:1, God refers to Sunday as one of the six "working days."

Rach, please listen to me, I want to help you, you really need to stop misunderstanding the Bible so much as you do, because you do not contextualize verses, that's why you are wrongly building erroneous doctrine. Rach, start reading the Bible in context or you continue to risk believing in error.

God bless.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Rach,
I truly believe you are wasting your time trying to explain things to this person. I think his legalistic worldview is his way of compensating for his debaucherous, undisciplined tendencies that ruled his life for so many years (as described on his website). I think he is here to promote his website (which he links to frequently); and of course make himself feel obedient by condemning others, which need arises when one doesn't have the witness of the spirit that one is obedient to the faith.

Maybe in his own weird way he's reaching out for help:

As a result of all the years of alcohol and drug abuse and being involved in the criminal underworld, I now have permanent brain damage. I live each day with paranoia and have been diagnosed with bipolar mood disorder and it's very difficult to function and I do not have a normal life anymore, as I am very isolated and also have post traumatic stress disorder and I get extreme depressive thoughts. So I plead with you, believe someone who has been there and done that, especially the younger people reading this, do not get involved with criminal activity, gangs, clubs, bikies, drugs and alcohol as it will destroy your future life and give you brain illness that stops you from being able to live a healthy and normal life. Prolonged alcohol and drug use will give you permanent brain and psychological damage. And each day you live in mental torment, paranoia and have severe mood swings. But thank God that I now have hope in Jesus that he will return soon to give me a new body, a new healthy mind and eternal life in heaven.

And, of course, if I am wrong about this person being the author of the mentioned website, I apologize.

 

[Rach1370]

There was so many biblical errors in your statements I don't know where to start for correction, but let me address this:

1. The problem you have is that Sunday has no Biblical support, even though it has "meaning" for you, you still have NO Bible support for it.

2. I better explain Acts 20:7 to you seeing you have completely misunderstood the verse and taken it out of complete context:

According to the Bible, each day begins at sundown and ends at the next sundown (Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31; Leviticus 23:32) and the dark part of the day comes first.

So Sabbath begins Friday night at sundown and ends Saturday night at sundown. This meeting of Acts 20 was held on the dark part of Sunday, or on what we now call Saturday night. The New English Bible begins Acts 20:7 like this: "On the Saturday night in our assembly ..." It was a Saturday-night meeting, and it lasted until midnight.

Paul was on a farewell tour and knew he would not see these people again before his death (verse 25). No wonder he preached so long! (No regular weekly service would have lasted all night.) Paul was "ready to depart on the morrow." The "breaking of bread" has no "holy day" significance whatsoever, because they broke bread daily (Acts 2:46).

There is not the slightest indication in this Scripture passage that the first day is holy, nor that these early Christians considered it so. Nor is there the remotest evidence that the Sabbath had been changed. Incidentally, this meeting is probably mentioned in the Scripture only because of the miracle of raising Eutychus back to life after he fell to his death from a second-floor window. In Ezekiel 46:1, God refers to Sunday as one of the six "working days."

Rach, please listen to me, I want to help you, you really need to stop misunderstanding the Bible so much as you do, because you do not contextualize verses, that's why you are wrongly building erroneous doctrine. Rach, start reading the Bible in context or you continue to risk believing in error.

God bless.

Your error is in believing you have the right or even the responsibility to 'teach' me. I don't know you, I don't trust you, why on earth would I listen to you?
I take the Bible in context, context of passages, and also as a whole. You hang all your 'Sabbath' on traditions based in OT law, which Paul fought against his whole preaching career! You say I have no biblical basis for finding Sunday special...well, if that's the case, I'm good company with the apostles. You can deny that, but it just makes you look 'special'...not in a good way. You have no way to prove that the early Church continued to meet on Saturday...so what you're doing is clinging to a system that passes away over 2000 years ago. It certainly must be interesting to live in your head!!
And no, I don't believe you want to help me...I believe you want me to exclaim how right you are, how brilliant for pointing out my mistakes. The problem there is, I'm not wrong on this, and apart from pulling out old verses that you yourself are taking out of context, you've got nothing. I read my bible, and I know how to, but thanks.

Rach,
I truly believe you are wasting your time trying to explain things to this person. I think his legalistic worldview is his way of compensating for his debaucherous, undisciplined tendencies that ruled his life for so many years (as described on his website). I think he is here to promote his website (which he links to frequently); and of course make himself feel obedient by condemning others, which need arises when one doesn't have the witness of the spirit that one is obedient to the faith.

Maybe in his own weird way he's reaching out for help:



And, of course, if I am wrong about this person being the author of the mentioned website, I apologize.

Oh, I know I'm wasting my time without a doubt!! But for the moment it's entertaining me. The truth needs to be spoken in all cases, so while I and others persist, he can't stand before Jesus in the end and say he never heard it!
I'm not so worried about his website, as I never follow any of his links. His 'doctrine' is dodgy enough that I'd never read anything he recommends! But thanks for the heads up!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Rach,
I truly believe you are wasting your time trying to explain things to this person. I think his legalistic worldview ...

Thou shalt not falsely accuse thy neighbour, but then again you willfully break Gods Commands.

I teach salvation by grace alone, but once saved by grace alone a truly born again Christian will uphold the law and not willfully break it like you. Its not Gods will anyone wilfully break His 10 Commandments.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

God bless.