Of course you have no problem with John 6:44 for it is Scripture. If you have faith why then do you need to exercise it? You will not need to for the Father will draw you which of course, is the only criteria for any individual to become saved. And, that is God's relation to salvation!
You ask me that same question again and again. Why? I've answered it and every time, you don't have even a word to say in reply nor a word of refutation. So, why ask it again and again? Refute my answer to allow for a meaningful discussion.
Also, I already told you, the Father's drawing is not a criterion for salvation, but is the working of God in relation to His saving.
No, I don't believe God saves through faith, and that is one of many doctrines not as plain and simple, that these two said verses are not understood.
1) For by grace (love)
2) Are you saved through faith (whose faith, man's? No way! Yourself have admitted it is God that saves)
3) And that not of yourselves (here, in black and white, is the answer)
4) It is the gift of God (through no merits of man and undeserved)
5) Not of works (faith)
6) Lest any man should boast (that man somehow wants to have some kind of credit to have a part in his salvation)
Ephesians 2:8-9
1)
For by grace (Unmerited, undeserved. Sovereignly and freely given out of love and mercy, according to His will, purpose, pleasure, glory.)
2)
Are you saved through faith (Did I say that faith is from man? I did not. Faith comes from God. That God saves through faith can't be denied there which the passage says so plainly and clearly. How a person gets to have faith is the working of God in relation to His saving the individual. And faith, once it comes to the individual and have it, in a sense becomes his possession. And God wants him to put it to work and produce fruits of repentance, obedience unto good works, conforming him to be in the image of Jesus Christ.)
3)
And that not of yourselves (As stated)
4)
It is the gift of God (As stated).
5,6)
Not of works Lest any man should boast (Not something that comes from the individual's ability and doing for which he may boast off before God as though God is obligated to save him or that he merited and deserves to be saved by Him.)
You got it right that I don't believe God saves through faith! Faith is a gift from Him to us, besides it being a work.
I could agree that faith is a gift, in the sense that it comes from God and comes to man, which otherwise man would not have if God had not brought His words to his hearing with God enabling him to hear or understand. I don't agree that faith is work. Faith, like love, hope, trust, confidence, reliance, to name a few, are not works, as what work is according to man, but are God-given spiritual virtues, that produce in the man, that which is pleasing to God.
Oh, I do understand perfectly well what God had conveyed in Titus 3:5. Just because you don't understand does not mean some of us don't.
Titus 3:5
1) "Not by works of righteousness" (funny how the word 'works' keeps popping up)
2) "which we have done" (works that we did)
3) "but according to his mercy" (love)
4) "He saved us by the washing of regeneration" (washing = baptism/baptizo)
5) "renewing of the Holy Spirit" (renewal, a complete change in us)
Does my expounding of Titus 3:5 above suffice or do you have a better explanation?
To God Be The Glory
So you claim to understand it perfectly. Without pointing it out in detail, I am sure enough that you don't
perfectly understand it. And in the same language you use, not that you claim to perfectly understand it means you in fact do and I don't.
Titus 3:5
1,2)
Not by works of righteousness which we have done (Not because of good works we have done or because of our righteous behavior on the basis of deeds)
3)
but according to his mercy (according to God's mercy)
4)
He saved us by the washing of regeneration (God saved us. How? By regeneration or a creating anew ~ a rebirth, which Paul figuratively describes as a "washing", that is, a cleansing. The original Greek text is not baptizo, but is "loutron", which means a washing, a bath, different from an immersion or baptism. Besides, the "washing" there is only descriptive of the real act of God, that is, regeneration.)
5)
and renewing of the Holy Spirit (in conjunction with the regeneration, as sort of speaking about the rebirth, as with a change of the individual's former heart and life unto a new heart and a new and righteous and holy life. And that is of God, through the working of the Holy Spirit in the individual.)
So, as I pointed out, there is no word "baptism" or "baptize" there JC. Not even in the original Greek text, can you find the Greek word "baptizo" or "baptismos". Perhaps, some Christians would take the "washing", having bias with the action of water, as symbolic of baptism. But as for me, I find no reason to inject baptism in such passage where it is not even mentioned nor hinted. But even if it is symbolic, the symbol is not what is spoken of, but the very reality behind the symbol is. And so goes my understanding of said scriptures.
Tong
R0890