Same ol' Priests and Pharisees :(

[DanielConway]

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[farouk]

You could read up on the second coming of Jesus the Christ here: Second Coming - Wikipedia

...and in John 14.3 and in 1 Corinthians 11.26...

 

[dev553344]

...and in John 14.3 and in 1 Corinthians 11.26...

I think you're supposed to use a colon ":" not a period"." in the scripture reference so that it auto shows the scripture there

 

[farouk]

I think you're supposed to use a colon ":" not a period"." in the scripture reference so that it auto shows the scripture there

I see...

 

[No Pre-TB]

That is 45 and it further confirms what I said. Like sinners that don't think the Lord is coming but delay their repentance. I'm not sure what about that you don't understand.

It is also shown in 2 Peter 3:3-4
It has nothing to do with the idea a church preaches premillennialism and everything to do with scoffers denying Christ will come again because it’s taken so long.

 

[ScottA]

OK, I understand that you consider his coming as already happened then? I often wondered that same thing, a church I attended pointed to a "2nd coming" and that is what I believe. So then there is no confusion. The 1st coming spoken of has then already happened.

Jesus did indeed come the first time, and then said He would come again. But He said He would come "soon" and outlined all that "must shortly take place" speaking to and of that generation that was living at the time. But not seeing Jesus' return as they expected to see it, even though He said it would not be as "expected", the church fathers developed their own false doctrine of Him coming in the future. Which if you read the parable of the "evil servant", Jesus explained that those who would come to say, "My master is delaying his coming" were evil and He would deal with them severely. Nonetheless, it is that false doctrine of Him delaying His coming that has been taught and believed now for all this time. Which Jesus, Peter, and Paul all warned of and predicted--Paul even saying that it must come first...and it has. These things are all in the gospels.

Meanwhile, it was also foretold that this would be a time of the Holy Spirit "leading us unto all truth." So, if you think about it, if "all truth" came first there would not have come any false doctrine--therefore, because the false doctrine is confirmed as a doctrine that teaches "My master is delaying his coming", "all truth" could only come once the "falling away" of false doctrine was fulfilled. And that is where we now are today.

 

[dev553344]

Jesus did indeed come the first time, and then said He would come again. But He said He would come "soon" and outlined all that "must shortly take place" speaking to and of that generation that was living at the time. But not seeing Jesus' return as they expected to see it, even though He said it would not be as "expected", the church fathers developed their own false doctrine of Him coming in the future. Which if you read the parable of the "evil servant", Jesus explained that those who would come to say, "My master is delaying his coming" were evil and He would deal with them severely. Nonetheless, it is that false doctrine of Him delaying His coming that has been taught and believed now for all this time. Which Jesus, Peter, and Paul all warned of and predicted--Paul even saying that it must come first...and it has. These things are all in the gospels.

Meanwhile, it was also foretold that this would be a time of the Holy Spirit "leading us unto all truth." So, if you think about it, if "all truth" came first there would not have come any false doctrine--therefore, because the false doctrine is confirmed as a doctrine that teaches "My master is delaying his coming", "all truth" could only come once the "falling away" of false doctrine was fulfilled. And that is where we now are today.

There is a reference @No Pre-TB quoted in post #25 where it says about the "last days" and becoming like the days of the flood of Noah's time. We have not see last days 2000 years ago. I think you might be confusing yourself.

 

[ScottA]

There is a reference @No Pre-TB quoted in post #25 where it says about the "last days" and becoming like the days of the flood of Noah's time. We have not see last days 2000 years ago. I think you might be confusing yourself.

No, but what have you not seen?

 

[DanielConway]

The Book of the Bible that gives the most structure, in a very sketchy way, admittedly, is Revelation. It appears to speak to three different tenses and audiences. The first part is the seven letters. Only the most committed universalist disputes the immediacy of the messages and the tightly targeted audience each letter was written to, although we can certainly scrap up lessons from their tailors to ours. The next part of the book shifts from the temporarel to the heavenly, where the scenes play out to the perspective of God. As is appropriate, the beginning of the narrative quakes with proclamations of the Holiness and sovereignty of God the father and the Lamb Jesus Christ, the first of whom exercises his authority to ordain the future and the second of whom manacles the authority to reveal it. From here to Ch 19 the book exudes symbols for a Great persecutor of the church, the phenomenal endurance of the Church under the sweat of the great powers that hate her, and God's steadily more intense plaughery on the "Beast" kingdom until the fall of her great city, Babylon frees her from the greatest intensity of her persecution. The next chapter, ch 20, speaks of a period, quite long, during which the Church reigns relatively free from the kind of global faith extinguishment she suffered under during the period of the Beast Kingdoms. Isaiah 65:20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed."
There is great disagreement within the Church over the identity and time period of the reign of the Beast kingdoms (I for one think they reigned in the past in the fulfillment of the Early Pagan and Later Constantinian Roman Empires, respectively) but to claim that the time of the Beast Kingdoms and the millennial reign of Christ and his saints is over is to be willfully stupid. The millennium cannot take place until the gospel is translated and preached to every tongue in the world and will be characterized by the peaceful coexistence of blessed saints and cursed sinners, see above. And the context of quote from John 16 "13when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." is just prior to the completion of Christ's work on earth, his passion and ascension. The spirit of truth descended on the apostles, the group he was addressing at the last supper, not the world in general or even the Church at large at Pentecost in tongues of fire. Over the period of the new testament they wrote it down for all who wish to be insulated from "false doctrines" to read. I for one do not look for a dramatic coming of Christ at the beginning of the millennium but expect he and his reigning saints to quietly move about the world influencing it for good, but I do expect a great rebellion at the end of this period when Satan gets one more fling at persecuting Christ's church. It is at the end of this brief period that you will see the heavens split and the descent of Christ in his full glory when the whole kit gets thrown into the fire to make way for the new and heavens an earth.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I do understand. Nevertheless, the church teaches that Jesus "is delaying His coming", rather than what He said would be "soon" and "must shortly take place", even clearly stating that they personally would witness His coming, saying to them "[you] will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven", rather than some future generation as the church now teaches, and has for 2,000 years.

What church are you referring to?
Some believe that everything is already fulfilled that needs to be fulfilled before His return. The premillenial rapture believers are expecting Him any day now.

 

[ScottA]

What church are you referring to?
Some believe that everything is already fulfilled that needs to be fulfilled before His return. The premillenial rapture believers are expecting Him any day now.

Yes, I suppose there should be a stated distinction between the would-be church and the actual church. Indeed there is both, and both by design, one of flesh and blood and of the world, and one of the spirit of God.

The one church of flesh and blood does not carry the water of the Spirit, but merely carries the words of the gospel. Having not fully received God in spirit, they do not have much of the spirit to give. It is as if they know of the mustard seed, but it has not grown in them, so they have only had seeds to offer these many generations. Each generation (by design) then has an equal opportunity as the first generation did when salvation first came, to make that same choice for themselves. That was the choice of life and death that Jesus set before the early church (flesh and blood or the Spirit, Matthew 16:17), just as was set before Adam and Eve, and just as Moses also set before Israel.

Unbeknownst to them the actual church which Jesus said He would build upon what comes forth from the Father, has also been being built, as Peter said, "you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5

As for "everything is already fulfilled", there is much confusion. Some mean "fulfilled" as if to say the opportunity for salvation has already come and gone and that everyone since then missed out, which as Paul pointed out, is not at all true. Some (including Paul) rather have taken Jesus at His word that He did come to fulfill all that is written of the law and the prophets; that it would come and has come upon that very generation He personally spoke it to saying "you will see" it; and that as He also said by Revelation, that all these things would "shortly take place", rather what has been taught of "gap", pre, post, or mid tribulation theories and in effect, saying "My master is delaying his coming."

Paul explained that it was none of the theories that have been taught, but rather than a mass event back then or in the future, the coming of Christ's return would be "but each one in his own order." So that just as through one man all sinned unto death--but not all at once, but in his own time, and also as through One all who are saved receive life everlasting--this too does not come all at once, "but each one in his own order." Which was delivered to us, the gentiles, until the times are fulfilled.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I think you're supposed to use a colon ":" not a period"." in the scripture reference so that it auto shows the scripture there

Yup