Sanctification is not a Process

[Eternally Grateful]

Anything man-made or man-interpreted relies on opinions. However, the bible is speaking of something very real. More real than real. Those who indulge private interpretations usually only have a very partial experience and understand. Because these don't know what's missing, and refuse to be open and teachable...they form factions that eventually turn into denominational divisions.

The irony is that the Reformation prided itself on refusing to hold tradition on the same level as scripture. Yet all these denominations hold to their "tradition" of bible interpretation.

What these usually share are common misunderstandings....since they rely on opinions...which get in the way of any further growth in understanding. Will these increase in holiness? The real question is whether they will be able to grow in any kind of maturity at all.

not trying to be rude. But what is powerful about a doctrine where a young lady spends years in that doctrine and has never walked in the spirit?

I see no power in that.

Gods word is alive and powerful sharper that any two edged sword… Gods word changes people. It is not dead and does not fail to change his people.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Anything man-made or man-interpreted relies on opinions. However, the bible is speaking of something very real. More real than real. Those who indulge private interpretations usually only have a very partial experience and understand. Because these don't know what's missing, and refuse to be open and teachable...they form factions that eventually turn into denominational divisions.

The irony is that the Reformation prided itself on refusing to hold tradition on the same level as scripture. Yet all these denominations hold to their "tradition" of bible interpretation.

What these usually share are common misunderstandings....since they rely on opinions...which get in the way of any further growth in understanding. Will these increase in holiness? The real question is whether they will be able to grow in any kind of maturity at all.

Yeah, it is a marvel that “scripture only“ turned immediately bad. But then, scripture only should have been subject to the prophets’ understanding and if you burn and imprison and kill them, you’re at a bit of a loss…

 

[Episkopos]

Another thought - “has become for us” wisdom, sanctification, etc. - doesn’t necessarily mean we are steeped in wisdom from day one of receiving the down payment of the Spirit. There’s still the renewing of the mind and learning what is right in Gods eyes. It doesn’t even mean we are incapable of turning away from the calling, cleansing, plowing, etc. We stumble many times, dirty our feet, get a little sideways as we begin to learn what is right/righteousness in Gods eyes.

I make a distinction between what is meant for purity...by a free gift of grace...and what is earned through a learning process leading to maturity.

Now we don't EARN holiness...so then that isn't a part of any maturing process.

The wisdom that we receive from the Lord in a gift of purity is called TOUSHIYAH wisdom (sound or eternal wisdom). That isn't an earned wisdom...it is through revelation. Do we earn revelation? No, it is a gift of grace through faith.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I like the “young lady” part! It’s not true though haha!! Closer to 60 than not.

 

[ChristisGod]

not tryign to be rude. But what is powerful about a doctrine where a young lady spends years in that doctrine and has never walked in the spirit?

I see now power in that.

Gods word is alive and powerful sharper that any two edged sword… Gods word changes people. It is not dead and does not fail to change his people.

When one is fed man made opinions about the Bible it’s no longer the word of God and ineffective as the philosophy of man . See Colossians 2:8- it’s crafty and deceptive. It’s the same strategy the serpent used on eve to have her doubt- did God really say :

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I make a distinction between what is meant for purity...by a free gift of grace...and what is earned through a learning process leading to maturity.

Now we don't EARN holiness...so then that isn't a part of any maturing process.

The wisdom that we receive from the Lord in a gift of purity is called TOUSHIYAH wisdom (sound or eternal wisdom). That isn't an earned wisdom...it is through revelation. Do we earn revelation? No, it is a gift of grace through faith.

That learning process. Leading to maturity. Is called progressive sanctification or christian growth. And it is not earned either., it is but by the power of God leading, teaching and directing us..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When one is fed man made opinions about the Bible it’s no longer the word of God and ineffective as the philosophy of man . See Colossians 2:8- it’s crafty and deceptive. It’s the same strategy the serpent used on eve to have her doubt- did God really say :

All one can do is keep showing the word. And pray some start of enlightenment comes.. But it all has to come from God. And it has to come through us humbling ourself to hear the word..

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I make a distinction between what is meant for purity...by a free gift of grace...and what is earned through a learning process leading to maturity.

I sort of see again here the holiest place/holy of holies vs. the holy place - the two sections in the temple - in this.
And…chosen vs. called.
Holiness vs. learning righteousness.

And as I’ve said before, I just CANT agree with some old saints I’ve read who said some are called to more love while on earth. I think the access is there for all He calls. The curtain did split to signify access. And yes, few are chosen, few make it to being chosen, but being counted among the nations is a really good place to be too. In my opinion.

Now we don't EARN holiness...so then that isn't a part of any maturing process.

The wisdom that we receive from the Lord in a gift of purity is called TOUSHIYAH wisdom (sound or eternal wisdom). That isn't an earned wisdom...it is through revelation. Do we earn revelation? No, it is a gift of grace through faith.

 

[Episkopos]

Yeah, it is a marvel that scripture only turned immediately bad. But then, scripture only should have been subject to the prophets’ understanding and if you burn and imprison and kill them, you’re at a bit of a loss…

Right...no living testimony about what is written down...dead letters rather than the power of the Spirit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Right...no living testimony about what is written down...dead letters rather than the power of the Spirit.

You go that way for too long and too much is lost.
It makes the verse make sense though - you have little strength but you have not denied Me…

I wondered a long time, but WHY do they only have a little strength?? I even wondered if it was as those old guys said, that God just didn’t call them to as much love while on earth. But I could never accept it. It didn’t make sense with other scriptures.

 

[marks]

Eph 4:13...yes I agree with your interpretation although to include and not limit, at that point we will build each other in love, although I believe we will be doing this continuously when we actually have the FULL knowledge of Christ whilst living in immortality in the Kingdom of God.

We do not have the full knowledge of Christ as I believe this is what Paul is pointing to as a goal not attained here whilst on earth. And I only see fragments and spurts of this love build up today amongst those in the Body Christ; and that is a great start for sure. And when it comes to me into my heart from others, I feel it in my bones and soul, it is real and a lovely experience.

From my experience, true communion, whether with God or brothers and sisters, there's nothing else that resembles this. I had to have my car towed a couple of months ago, and the driver gave converstation intended to point to Christ, and within minutes we both affirmed our faith. That began such a sweet communion, I'm still encouraged as I remember.

Deep calls out to deep.

The way I think of us transformed into the incorruptible, that without the corruption of our flesh, we are receiving our pure and full life from God Himself, being fully built in Him. Christ in you, the hope of glory. I guess I see that continuing in Christ in me, eternal glory. Which of course draws my attention to,

Daniel 12:3 KJV
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I want to be wise. And I want to turn others to righteousness.

I used to think in the same terms you are, that we won't have the complete unity of faith and knowledge until all impediment of flesh is removed in our transformation, however, I noticed a couple of things that changed my mind.

Ephesians 4:13-16 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Both of these bolded places use the same word "grow". In the first, vs. 15, this is a first person plural verb, "we should be making to grow" into Christ. This is personal growth, "til Christ be formed in you". The second, vs. 16, this is a singular noun, "growth of the body", that is, the body of Christ. We are to be growing, and the body is to be growing. We grow in maturity. The body grows in number.

Then continuing,

Ephesians 4:17 KJV
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

I see this section as speaking to us that once we can come to unity in the faith and knowledge of the Son of God, and stop all this back and forth over this or that, we can act like adults, have some maturity, and start actually helping each other. That before we can do this, we're no different from anyone else who argues and fights, each defending their own fleshy ideas.

And then yes Christ at that point and not even at that point, he is able to build us up today, although seeing the fragmentation of doctrines and divisions it does not seem real to me. Of course who am I to know the future....

Trust Him. He is working all things for the good of the called, who love Him. Even this.

I hope we can now appreciate what wolves in sheep clothing look like today and as spoken about in the next verse of verse 14. It is so real and yet I do feel insulated in not falling for these types of deceptions from spirits that resist God and his Son. As I'm truly thankful and praise my Father and my Saviour they have been by my side as with you and others in these lively discussions lately. We can discern these dangers and we must trumpet them throughout the Body of Christ, to all the lands and people of God.

I've yet to find an error that is not directly refuted in the Bible. So the better we know the Scriptures, the more we will be able to spot these things. And even so, the Holy Spirit can speak to our hearts to keep us safe. We need to be still, and listen.

As @mailmandan recently said as a quote I have pinned in my heart for some time....Acts 20:28

(Act 20:28) Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. (ESV)

Amen

And amen!

1 Peter 5:3 KJV
Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

"heritage", literally, "the allotments". This may be saying, those allotted to that shepherd's care. That God has assigned us to certain shepherds. We need to take care!

Much love!

 

[APAK]

From my experience, true communion, whether with God or brothers and sisters, there's nothing else that resembles this. I had to have my car towed a couple of months ago, and the driver gave converstation intended to point to Christ, and within minutes we both affirmed our faith. That began such a sweet communion, I'm still encouraged as I remember.

Deep calls out to deep.

The way I think of us transformed into the incorruptible, that without the corruption of our flesh, we are receiving our pure and full life from God Himself, being fully built in Him. Christ in you, the hope of glory. I guess I see that continuing in Christ in me, eternal glory. Which of course draws my attention to,

Daniel 12:3 KJV
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I want to be wise. And I want to turn others to righteousness.

I used to think in the same terms you are, that we won't have the complete unity of faith and knowledge until all impediment of flesh is removed in our transformation, however, I noticed a couple of things that changed my mind.

Ephesians 4:13-16 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Both of these bolded places use the same word "grow". In the first, vs. 15, this is a first person plural verb, "we should be making to grow" into Christ. This is personal growth, "til Christ be formed in you". The second, vs. 16, this is a singular noun, "growth of the body", that is, the body of Christ. We are to be growing, and the body is to be growing. We grow in maturity. The body grows in number.

Then continuing,

Ephesians 4:17 KJV
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

I see this section as speaking to us that once we can come to unity in the faith and knowledge of the Son of God, and stop all this back and forth over this or that, we can act like adults, have some maturity, and start actually helping each other. That before we can do this, we're no different from anyone else who argues and fights, each defending their own fleshy ideas.


Trust Him. He is working all things for the good of the called, who love Him. Even this.


I've yet to find an error that is not directly refuted in the Bible. So the better we know the Scriptures, the more we will be able to spot these things. And even so, the Holy Spirit can speak to our hearts to keep us safe. We need to be still, and listen.

And amen!

1 Peter 5:3 KJV
Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

"heritage", literally, "the allotments". This may be saying, those allotted to that shepherd's care. That God has assigned us to certain shepherds. We need to take care!

Much love!

Speaking of affirmations of common faith by strangers. Just last week I was in the community hot tub and the cold plunge trying to control the aches and pains caused from a waistline wall of sciatica pain and soreness. It is working by the way.

Well I said hi to this stranger in the tub and we both exchanged first names. I was telling him about my current health issue and he listened intently and responded at times with his opinion, As we conversed I had the distinct impression he was a doctor. Lo and behold he said he was a retired doctor of medicine. And our last 20 minutes or so of conversation was all about our Savior and our walk in Christ.

It was a most rewarding experience to say the least. I love it when this happens.

We are already building love in Christ in the most unusual places and I never saw the hand of Jesus in the tub one time, although we both felt him move in our hearts,...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I see some low resolution stuff with an almost severe acuity. God has taken me a route of…intimate knowledge of human nature and motives and why people are acting a certain way. I’m nearsighted.
But put me into a group dynamic, or a larger setting, with a few more layers of obfuscation (like examining the machine of politics for instance) and I struggle to adjust and apply what I’ve learned. And make that setting among people who may have received the down payment and I do a really strange thing. I expect those people to be completely different from the smaller or more intimate settings among unbelievers He’s taught me about human nature in. I for some reason assume those people will not be afraid of truth as unbelievers are, will not become distressed if backed into a corner with truth. But they are the same.
But there is one difference in this particular place (here). For instance, among say…the unbelievers in my family, they avoid me (And I’m quite okay with that because the only way for me to not make them uncomfortable would be to play their silly pretend games). And they sometimes seem…afraid to make eye contact. I told them at some point, like…why they were having a problem with a certain person, I layed it all out so they could see it, they were amazed and asked how on earth I saw that and I said, well…God, the Holy Spirit. And the Bible. And then they…became scared because…if I could see and understand the workings and motives of ONE human nature then their own might be seen by me. And that has most often happened that they were (for example) at some point furious with someone and I attempted to help them out of their distress with exactly why and…it was too much truth then. So they sort of rush by me now without making eye contact too much. So our tacit and unspoken agreement is: don’t ask me anything or involve me in anything if you aren’t prepared for the truth.
So that’s a difference between that setting and here - they’ve stopped scapegoating me (because it doesn’t work any more) and they now avoid me (out of fear) and HERE, there are some so angry at truth that they do the opposite of avoid and instead try to silence me by screaming at me.
And, of course, it’s the same thing they do with Epi, out of fear of the truth, but even more viciously because…I don’t know why….because it’s on a macro scale?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And it’s pretty strange to examine, but some in here can actually become BLINDER than they originally were…it’s most often fear.

 

[ChristisGod]

Speaking of affirmations of common faith by strangers. Just last week I was in the community hot tub and the cold plunge trying to control the aches and pains caused from a waistline wall of sciatica pain and soreness. It is working by the way.

Well I said hi to this stranger in the tub and we both exchanged first names. I was telling him about my current health issue and he listened intently and responded at times with his opinion, As we conversed I had the distinct impression he was a doctor. Lo and behold he said he was a retired doctor of medicine. And our last 20 minutes or so of conversation was all about our Savior and our walk in Christ.

It was a most rewarding experience to say the least. I love it when this happens.

We are already building love in Christ in the most unusual places and I never saw the hand of Jesus in the tub one time, although we both felt him move in our hearts,...

Thats an awesome story thanks for sharing.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol.

 

[ChristisGod]

Someone claims to know the thoughts and intentions of a mans heart. God alone knows a mans heart, intentions and motives.

1 Kings 8:39
be heard by You from heaven, Your dwelling place. And may You forgive and act, and repay each man according to all his ways, since You know his heart—for You alone know the hearts of all men.

 

[ChristisGod]

Anything man-made or man-interpreted relies on opinions. However, the bible is speaking of something very real. More real than real. Those who indulge private interpretations usually only have a very partial experience and understand. Because these don't know what's missing, and refuse to be open and teachable...they form factions t

It sounds like you looked into the mirror and described what you saw when gazing at the reflection.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He’s taught me what He’s taught me and shown me what He’s shown me.

 

[Johann]

Someone claims to know the thoughts and intentions of a mans heart. God alone knows a mans heart, intentions and motives.

1 Kings 8:39
be heard by You from heaven, Your dwelling place. And may You forgive and act, and repay each man according to all his ways, since You know his heart—for You alone know the hearts of all men.

Amen brother