Satan the Arch-deceiver

[IAmAWitness]

The Bible says that he exalts and magnifies himself, that he speaks great things against God and tries to show the world that he is God. That would be that he has no god. It would make most sense to appear as someone who holds to a variety of Christian morality but over time he would tend to show more self-centeredness.

 

[tgwprophet]

How can a "kingdom" exahalt itself as a god? The actions of this Beast as well as what happens to this Beast... reflect it is an individual.

Raesneske, if you will dispense with the attempts to ascert that if I do not agree with you then I am calling God liar or it is your way or the highway - then I will continue. I allowed the 7 Beasts to be called kingdoms for the sole purpose that I am focusing on the 8th. I wanted to get you over that hurdle first. As far as the 7 Beasts being kings or kingdoms we will address that later. And i will leave it at this time that the 7 Beasts may be kingdoms or kings, for here you may be correct.

Look at the thread on the 8 Beasts... Everyone has a different idea and each poke holes - holes that contain a high degree of validity in each others posts. That is simply becasue those holes do exist. Almost all of them are fumbling ovr each other to prove their point. Most try to reference them to ancient kingdoms - that in itself could be the reason all could be in error. Yet, I have another reason... The Two Witnesses will be the ones to reveal the Beast that is The anti-christ and/or Satan ( i stated it that way to ensure absolute accuracy ) I am unsure this is a given in the New or Old Testament, but I do KNOW this will be in the next Testament. I have stated many times I teach the Two Witnesses and I know them...extremely well so... I could say.. how is it I teach them but what I teach is in error? But instead I wil say this... I often wondered how the world ( including - and especially - Christians and Jews ) will not recognize the anti-christ/Satan and the answer could concieveably be - because they believe the 8th Beast is not a person. CERTAINLY the understanding of who is the anti-christ/Satan will definately be skewed and obscured by people's understandings!

To conclude that becasue the other 7 Beasts are kingdoms is not a qualifier that the 8th Beast must be as well. Regarding the 8th Beast God's Word is expressly different than the other 7. Consider that there is a reason for that, and the reason is becasue the 8th Beast is expressly different.

The anti-christ that is the Beast whose name numbers 666 is quite different that all the other Beasts. This Beast will be able to control all the other 7 with his words. Consider that...like I stated that this Beast possesses the body that Satan will take over and i is highly likely that you would even agree of the immense power of this Beast being nothing like the others. The other 7 Beasts can in no way execute the authority of the this one, they are not even close.

The wounding - healing and the world marveling after the miracle healing is direct reference to an individual. Please consider the Twin Towers... their impact was extremely stong in USA yet the ability for those buildings to achive the status as described above does not even come close to that description. What happened in Germany at the incinerators never even came close and they were vastly stronger than that of the Twin Towers. There is simply no way any kingdom could ever achieve references emulatimg that of the 8th Beast.

peace

 

[Raeneske]

How can a "kingdom" exahalt itself as a god? The actions of this Beast as well as what happens to this Beast... reflect it is an individual.

Raesneske, if you will dispense with the attempts to ascert that if I do not agree with you then I am calling God liar or it is your way or the highway - then I will continue. I allowed the 7 Beasts to be called kingdoms for the sole purpose that I am focusing on the 8th. I wanted to get you over that hurdle first. As far as the 7 Beasts being kings or kingdoms we will address that later. And i will leave it at this time that the 7 Beasts may be kingdoms or kings, for here you may be correct.

Look at the thread on the 8 Beasts... Everyone has a different idea and each poke holes - holes that contain a high degree of validity in each others posts. That is simply becasue those holes do exist. Almost all of them are fumbling ovr each other to prove their point. Most try to reference them to ancient kingdoms - that in itself could be the reason all could be in error. Yet, I have another reason... The Two Witnesses will be the ones to reveal the Beast that is The anti-christ and/or Satan ( i stated it that way to ensure absolute accuracy ) I am unsure this is a given in the New or Old Testament, but I do KNOW this will be in the next Testament. I have stated many times I teach the Two Witnesses and I know them...extremely well so... I could say.. how is it I teach them but what I teach is in error? But instead I wil say this... I often wondered how the world ( including - and especially - Christians and Jews ) will not recognize the anti-christ/Satan and the answer could concieveably be - because they believe the 8th Beast is not a person. CERTAINLY the understanding of who is the anti-christ/Satan will definately be skewed and obscured by people's understandings!

To conclude that becasue the other 7 Beasts are kingdoms is not a qualifier that the 8th Beast must be as well. Regarding the 8th Beast God's Word is expressly different than the other 7. Consider that there is a reason for that, and the reason is becasue the 8th Beast is expressly different.

The anti-christ that is the Beast whose name numbers 666 is quite different that all the other Beasts. This Beast will be able to control all the other 7 with his words. Consider that...like I stated that this Beast possesses the body that Satan will take over and i is highly likely that you would even agree of the immense power of this Beast being nothing like the others. The other 7 Beasts can in no way execute the authority of the this one, they are not even close.

The wounding - healing and the world marveling after the miracle healing is direct reference to an individual. Please consider the Twin Towers... their impact was extremely stong in USA yet the ability for those buildings to achive the status as described above does not even come close to that description. What happened in Germany at the incinerators never even came close and they were vastly stronger than that of the Twin Towers. There is simply no way any kingdom could ever achieve references emulatimg that of the 8th Beast.

peace

There are leaders within that Kingdom (Leader(s)) that exalt themselves as God, and that Kingdom is trying to exalt itself above God in measure, while not only the Leader(s) believe they can change God's law, but the inhabitants of such a system also believe that their Kingdom has the power to change God's law.

Terry, I simply refuse not to point out that you keep saying "man" while scripture says "Kingdom". Unless you give me valid proof that beast = man, I cannot accept your testimony. I mean no disrespect, but I would rather stay strict to Biblical Rules my friend. If you would like to convince me, or anyone that may be in my boat, refusing to accept your testimony, you must bring your words to the test. I am not trying to say, "You big liar!" or anything like that, but it is a valid observation. You keep saying man, and you accept that for the other 7, yet for some reason, you apply different logic to #8. Why? I refuse to accept what you say, because you are not showing Beast = man. Please provide the scripture which proves me wrong, or else we will seriously just continue to go in circles with this conversation. That's all the last couple posts of hours have been, circles.

I agree that the Anti-Christ system is the 8th Beast, but I will not say that Beast is a man. Now that Beast's own number is 666. How do we find out that? We find a man within that beast, which the number calculates to #666. Yes, the Kingdom's # is 666.

I agree, the twin towers are not it, nor Germany. Rather, this beast (Kingdom) was in power, which is why that same beast is called was, is not, yet is. And that same beast, which is 5, 6, and 7, is also going to be #8. That Kingdom went through a was phase, when it was in power, it went through a is not phase, when it received the mortal wound by the sword (military), and then the healing of the wound commenced when it became the yet is part. How does a Kingdom receive a wound? Well they can in battle, when they lose power. How does a kingdom receive a mortal wound? The Kingdom is taken out of commission by a military power. But this Kingdom came back to power, and received back their power, to have a healing wound. That healed wound then continues healing, until finally, that Kingdom stands above the whole entire world, just like it stood before.

 

[tgwprophet]

I am pretty sure you understand "ego" But you refuse to think Satan would allow a group to be conswidered what he wants to be?
Satan took Jesus to a high place and requested that Jesus bow to him... Satan will not desire to share his self desired "exhalted position" with ANYONE.

I have already given you reasons the 8th Beast is not a kingdom - thuough it could be a king without a kingdom. For a king can say this land is my land and I can do with it what I desire. But... a Leader such as the Head of the NOW.. he could be considered a "king" but a king without a kingdom.... For he could not say he can do with any land as he so desires... for any country he attempted that with and agaist that countries desires.. would simply resign from the NWO. And in this respect.. thi Beast would be a man, an individual. personallly I do not even believe Satan will seek even the title of the Leader of the NWO. He will instead call himself - god.

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man:..."
Why do not the other 7 have a man's number? 665, 664, 663... becasue they are not a man.

I will re-post this... concerning you query requesting proof..
Regarding the 8th Beast God's Word is expressly different than the other 7. Consider that there is a reason for that, and the reason is becasue the 8th Beast is expressly different.

You are trying to confine Satan as being less than a self power when you attempt to classify him as part of the 8th Beast or part " of " any Beast. The closest he will allow anyone to share in his power are his demons and the Beast that receives the wound. Re-consider his EGO.

Consider the mortal wound and the wonder... this mortal wound cannot happen to an object nor to a constitution outline to alli or unite many or all nations. If it was not a MORTAL wound it would not use the word " MORTAL. "

The Two Witnesses will be the ones to reveal the Beast that is The anti-christ and/or Satan ( i stated it that way to ensure absolute accuracy ) I am unsure this is a given in the New or Old Testament, but I do KNOW this will be in the next Testament. What I have told you is sifficient.

 

[Raeneske]

I am pretty sure you understand "ego" But you refuse to think Satan would allow a group to be conswidered what he wants to be?
Satan took Jesus to a high place and requested that Jesus bow to him... Satan will not desire to share his self desired "exhalted position" with ANYONE.

I have already given you reasons the 8th Beast is not a kingdom - thuough it could be a king without a kingdom. For a king can say this land is my land and I can do with it what I desire. But... a Leader such as the Head of the NOW.. he could be considered a "king" but a king without a kingdom.... For he could not say he can do with any land as he so desires... for any country he attempted that with and agaist that countries desires.. would simply resign from the NWO. And in this respect.. thi Beast would be a man, an individual. personallly I do not even believe Satan will seek even the title of the Leader of the NWO. He will instead call himself - god.

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man:..."
Why do not the other 7 have a man's number? 665, 664, 663... becasue they are not a man.

I will re-post this... concerning you query requesting proof..
Regarding the 8th Beast God's Word is expressly different than the other 7. Consider that there is a reason for that, and the reason is becasue the 8th Beast is expressly different.

You are trying to confine Satan as being less than a self power when you attempt to classify him as part of the 8th Beast or part " of " any Beast. The closest he will allow anyone to share in his power are his demons and the Beast that receives the wound. Re-consider his EGO.

Consider the mortal wound and the wonder... this mortal wound cannot happen to an object nor to a constitution outline to alli or unite many or all nations. If it was not a MORTAL wound it would not use the word " MORTAL. "

The Two Witnesses will be the ones to reveal the Beast that is The anti-christ and/or Satan ( i stated it that way to ensure absolute accuracy ) I am unsure this is a given in the New or Old Testament, but I do KNOW this will be in the next Testament. What I have told you is sifficient.

I am not trying to do anything, but show you that a beast = a kingdom. The number of the beast, is the number of a man, not the number of that man; The number 666 is the number of a man within the beast, not that man is the beast, and his number is 666.

We have different theology backgrounds, so we're both going to look like each other is saying "oh Satan isn't this" or "is God a liar" that. Enough of it.

My question is, where does beast = man.

 

[tgwprophet]

Dang, you are under the impression the becasue the 7 Beasts are kingdoms the 8th has to be also. I would like you to show me where in scripture it says that. - it does not. The concept that because the 7 are Kingdoms that that 8th has to be as well is just as stripped of validity when it is told the 8th Beast's name is the name of a man whose number is 666. Now when you understand this is just as equal as your contention then we can proceed.

By the Way.. it was not I that claimed if your not in agreementr wirth me that you are calling God a lair. you made that statement. and now your last post attempts to use that against me by saying Enough of that.. like it iwas me doing that. I tried to STOP it from the begining... so DO NOT try to use a holier than thou on me!!! I have been finishing my posts with... peace... for that is my goal

When I explained to you that Satan's EGO would not allow him to be subjected to a position which requires him to be just another participant - that alone should be enough for you to understand the 8th Beast is a man and will be Satan. This is a hurdle you must be able to get over... now lets see if you can. In scripture Revelation 13 it tells the Beast that received the wound ( not the Image of the Beast ) had a man's name anf his number is 666.... now consider that 666 is the number of SATAN and SATAN is NOT a KINGDOM - he is an individual... a person.

Now, IF the Image of the Beast had the number 666... then Revelation 13 would conclude with the "Let him that hath understanding count The Image of the Beast..." But instead it says "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast... "
peace

 

[Raeneske]

Dang, you are under the impression the becasue the 7 Beasts are kingdoms the 8th has to be also. I would like you to show me where in scripture it says that. - it does not. The concept that because the 7 are Kingdoms that that 8th has to be as well is just as stripped of validity when it is told the 8th Beast's name is the name of a man whose number is 666. Now when you understand this is just as equal as your contention then we can proceed.

By the Way.. it was not I that claimed if your not in agreementr wirth me that you are calling God a lair. you made that statement. and now your last post attempts to use that against me by saying Enough of that.. like it iwas me doing that. I tried to STOP it from the begining... so DO NOT try to use a holier than thou on me!!! I have been finishing my posts with... peace... for that is my goal

When I explained to you that Satan's EGO would not allow him to be subjected to a position which requires him to be just another participant - that alone should be enough for you to understand the 8th Beast is a man and will be Satan. This is a hurdle you must be able to get over... now lets see if you can. In scripture Revelation 13 it tells the Beast that received the wound ( not the Image of the Beast ) had a man's name anf his number is 666.... now consider that 666 is the number of SATAN and SATAN is NOT a KINGDOM - he is an individual... a person.

Now, IF the Image of the Beast had the number 666... then Revelation 13 would conclude with the "Let him that hath understanding count The Image of the Beast..." But instead it says "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast... "
peace

No no, I never said you said something about being a liar. My posts are the ones that made you feel that way. But your posts say something about Satan's ego. I'm not concerned with that, that's not part of the discussion at the moment. Our talk is about the Beast's = Kingdoms, and not a man. My posts have been for peace as well. However, I will not budge, simply because you are applying different reasoning to the 8th Beast, than the other 7. It's inconsistent, it doesn't make any sense.

I would like to see the scripture that says a beast is a man still, that is what I want to see. I hear you loud and clear Terry, I do. But I would like to see the scripture, that says a beast = a man. I don't have a problem with you saying Satan wants to be exalted, and his ego, etc.

I cannot budge from the belief I have, if you refuse to show me where Beast = Man. Everywhere else different reasoning is applied, until you get to this beast. Simply because we need to know this beast, and need to know the details of this beast, more than the others, doesn't mean that it all of a sudden became a man. God told us, beast is kingdom. Now we find that Kingdom, which carries a woman (church), as the woman sits on 7 heads, which are the 7 hills of Rome.

I will share a little bit, maybe it will help you see where I am coming from (besides the fact, that I refuse to budge from Beast = Kingdom). A woman riding on a beast, is a Church and State combination. The Roman Catholic Church is a Church and state combination, and the Vatican is a kingdom, which is also a city. So, what about the number 666? The name of the Pope, comes out to 666. Vicarius Filii Dei is the name. That is an undeniable fact, just like it's undeniable that Rome sits on 7 hills, and has a church there, which shares diplomatic relationships with the world. There can be attempts to discredit that all they want, calling it only a "SDA" belief. Well I'm not an SDA, so they can automatically toss that away. I also believe what the Reformers believed, like Martin Luther, etc, that the Pope is the Anti-christ head, of the apostate woman. So, what is the "Image of the Beast"? It's gotta be something that's like the Roman Catholic Church. We as America are seperated from Church and State. Rome is not. So, how would an image be formed? If America honestly did away with the constitiution, and put more religious laws in place, they would form an exact image of that Roman Catholic Beast. So, how could that church have received a Mortal Wound? The French ARMY captured Rome in 1798. They went in with the "sword" and gave the Vatican a mortal wound. So, how did they receive a mortal wound? They, who were a Church and State lost their powers, their papal powers were abolished, and they had a secular one in place. That's how they received a mortal wound, it ended the reign of Rome during the Dark Ages. So, how could they have received a miraculous healing? Who in their right mind, after the dark ages, would want to re-instate Rome back into power? Well believe it or not, someone did. In 1929 The Lateran Treaty was signed which brings rome back into power again being a church and state. How is Rome, the Church exalting itself above God? Consider the fact that they claim themselves from the Apostle Peter, and with daring beyond belief, claim that they can change, add new laws, etc. They claim the power to change laws, and do away with them, of a Sacred nature. Consider, the Pope sits "as a God" not only claiming to be the replacement of the Son of God, but his throne sits between two Cheribuim, so that he sits in the temple of God, showing that he is God.

That is some background on my belief which I have. Maybe that will help you see a little what I see. However, while I can hear you loud and clear, I simply cannot budge from the understanding of a beast. I have not been provided with scripture that says beast = man.

 

[tgwprophet]

Ok if you wish to remain fixed on the 8th Beast being a Kingdom.. Which is NEVER stated in scriptue, only the 7 are...called Kingdoms.

I notice wheneve you put show me where it says Beast=man
You never show me where it says 8th Beast=Kingdom emphisis on 8th.
On top of that you never post an specific answer to a specific question.

So, read Revelation 13... For it says... " And he excersizeth all the power of the first Beast before him... "
According to your line of reasoning this "first Beast" must be... number 1 of the 7 and that makes number 1 of that 7 not possible to have existed long ago. But if you follow my reasoning then this first Beast described here would be the Beast the receives the wound instead.

If 666 is the number of a kingdom as you think, then what is Satan's number?

When ever the Bible uses the word Beast, is it referring to kingdoms or just
the one extra time you want? Why not all of them just because it says the 7 are?

Is 666 the number of a Kingdom? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is 666 the number of Satan? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is Satan the man whose number is 666? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes

 

[Raeneske]

Ok if you wish to remain fixed on the 8th Beast being a Kingdom.. Which is NEVER stated in scriptue, only the 7 are...called Kingdoms.

I notice wheneve you put show me where it says Beast=man
You never show me where it says 8th Beast=Kingdom emphisis on 8th.
On top of that you never post an specific answer to a specific question.

So, read Revelation 13... For it says... " And he excersizeth all the power of the first Beast before him... "
According to your line of reasoning this "first Beast" must be... number 1 of the 7 and that makes number 1 of that 7 not possible to have existed long ago. But if you follow my reasoning then this first Beast described here would be the Beast the receives the wound instead.

If 666 is the number of a kingdom as you think, then what is Satan's number?

When ever the Bible uses the word Beast, is it referring to kingdoms or just
the one extra time you want? Why not all of them just because it says the 7 are?

Is 666 the number of a Kingdom? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is 666 the number of Satan? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is Satan the man whose number is 666? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes

Before I answer that, I wish for you to show me one thing. Where does scripture change beast to man? Scripture says only outright the 4th Beast is a Kingdom. That same reasoning is applied to the other beasts though, because it is understood a beast is a kingdom. Where, then, does it say, the 8th beast is a man? So, if you cannot show me that, then I cannot accept your testimony. There are men spoken of in other Kingdoms in the 11th Chapter of Daniel, but does this diminish the meaning of beast? No. Nothing further, until you will please provide me with that scripture.

I desire for you to see what you're doing, I do not leave anger in my post. I know when talking about opinions, or thoughts, it may seem rude or mean. But I mean this rebuke for you to give up this opinion you have.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Just think for a moment. I've seen all these things about anti-christ, being of certain faiths. But which disguise would he be honestly less suceptible under?

If Satan is the great deceiver I do not think he will come as a christian

His appeal will be to the secular world

The secular world pretty much hates Christians already so why would Satan want to be seen as one.

 

[Raeneske]

If Satan is the great deceiver I do not think he will come as a christian

His appeal will be to the secular world

The secular world pretty much hates Christians already so why would Satan want to be seen as one.

If he comes as a false Christian, and appeals to the world, more-so than someone like Joel Osteen, and all the other tv preachers combined, he may have the world within reach.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

If he comes as a false Christian, and appeals to the world, more-so than someone like Joel Osteen, and all the other tv preachers combined, he may have the world within reach.

It could happen I suppose ..... but I still think the AC comes to deceive the un-saved.

One reason I feel that way is that the bible says God will pour out a delusion so that people who do not love the truth will REALLY believe in the lie.

As Christians we have the truth ..... we do not believe the lie

Certainly some Christians can be deceived at times but the purposes of the AC are directed to the ungodly in the world

I think it is proper to say that there is a "huge" grey area right now where sometimes it can be hard to determine who really is christian and who are not really christian ....... during the end times I think the grey area disappears and everything is clearly defined by the great delusion God sends to the ungodly.

I must confess that a lot of TV preachers concern me greatly ..... even guys like Osteen ..... he is almost too nice .... to pleasant ..... seems fake to me ...... his perfect face looks like a mask covering something .... anyone else notice that ??

 

[tgwprophet]

If 666 is the number of a kingdom as you think, then what is Satan's number?

When ever the Bible uses the word Beast, is it referring to kingdoms or just
the one extra time you want? Why not all of them ( everytime in Scripture it says " beast " ) just because it says the 7 are?

Is 666 the number of a Kingdom? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is 666 the number of Satan? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is Satan the man whose number is 666? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes

If you wish to see... answer the above questions honestly.; Yes, it is a trap.
For if you answer them honestly, you are on my side. Now exactly why did you wlude them?
By the way... and again... Where does it say... the 8th Beast is a kingdom? it does not, of course.
Your claim always asks where does it say Beast=man... but we are not debating that. We are debating where does it say... 8th Beast=man or 8th Beast=kingdom. of which it says neither specifically,
I know you understand my points.. you are just being elusive as it destroys your understanding of the beasts.
Now, the Two Witnesses will be revealing the Beast and that Beast will be 666 and an individual and a man ( or man like appearance and i do not mean " image " - as I am unsure if someone would want to debate whether Satan could be classified as a "man" ).

 

[Raeneske]

It could happen I suppose ..... but I still think the AC comes to deceive the un-saved.

One reason I feel that way is that the bible says God will pour out a delusion so that people who do not love the truth will REALLY believe in the lie.

As Christians we have the truth ..... we do not believe the lie

Certainly some Christians can be deceived at times but the purposes of the AC are directed to the ungodly in the world

I think it is proper to say that there is a "huge" grey area right now where sometimes it can be hard to determine who really is christian and who are not really christian ....... during the end times I think the grey area disappears and everything is clearly defined by the great delusion God sends to the ungodly.

I must confess that a lot of TV preachers concern me greatly ..... even guys like Osteen ..... he is almost too nice .... to pleasant ..... seems fake to me ...... his perfect face looks like a mask covering something .... anyone else notice that ??

Yes, they will believe a horrendous lie. But if Satan comes as Jesus, trying to mimic the glory of Jesus, don't you think even atheists would fall at their feet? What's more, Satan could easily turn to them, tell them he's Jesus, and then pronounce a blessing on them. Remember, he's been misleading them during their lives. He knows the questions they want answered, and with his deception he can give misleading answers to everything, that way they have faith in him, and not Jesus.

Actually some Christians may fall for the lie. It's supposed to be such a strong deception, it could deceive the elect (if that were possible). Some don't realize the manner of the Second Coming which Jesus gave. Every eye shall see Him. He shall not come on earth randomly, and start blessing people, and teaching the great truths, while claiming things against the holy 10 Commandments, understand what I'm saying?

Yes, there is a huge grey area. That's why we are to labour for all Christians. We shall certainly know whose a Christian much closer to the end, when the line is drawn, those for God, and those for the rebellious leader.

TV Preachers are a mystery, you have to think really hard while they are preaching, and look at the Word of God. They aren't TV preachers for no reason.

If 666 is the number of a kingdom as you think, then what is Satan's number?

When ever the Bible uses the word Beast, is it referring to kingdoms or just
the one extra time you want? Why not all of them ( everytime in Scripture it says " beast " ) just because it says the 7 are?

Is 666 the number of a Kingdom? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is 666 the number of Satan? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes
Is Satan the man whose number is 666? yes/no? yes..but = no no..but = yes

If you wish to see... answer the above questions honestly.; Yes, it is a trap.
For if you answer them honestly, you are on my side. Now exactly why did you wlude them?
By the way... and again... Where does it say... the 8th Beast is a kingdom? it does not, of course.
Your claim always asks where does it say Beast=man... but we are not debating that. We are debating where does it say... 8th Beast=man or 8th Beast=kingdom. of which it says neither specifically,
I know you understand my points.. you are just being elusive as it destroys your understanding of the beasts.
Now, the Two Witnesses will be revealing the Beast and that Beast will be 666 and an individual and a man ( or man like appearance and i do not mean " image " - as I am unsure if someone would want to debate whether Satan could be classified as a "man" ).

Well, if 666 is the number of the kingdom, which is the number of a man in that kingdom, this doesn't mean that Satan's number cannot also be 666. Many peoples names can add up to 666. However, in this kingdom, a significant man has the number of 666. And 666 is this kingdoms number.

Terry, 7 times it meant kingdom. Am I supposed to automatically assume the 8th time it doesn't mean kingdom? We are told specifically in one area that the 4th Beast is a kingdom. This logic of a beast is then applied everywhere else, not just in one place, and no where else. So yes, the 8th Beast follows the same logic that it is a kingdom.

Now, your questions do not get me to side with you. Yes ,I answered them honestly, to the best of my knowledge. However, your conclusion upon those answers is misleading. All that shows is similarities between the beast and Satan. That does not make beast to mean Satan. It's like when people show you similarities between certain kingdoms in prophecy. Does that mean both Kingdoms are one in that prophecy? No. Just because they have seeds, and are fruits, doesn't mean they are all apples.

Satan is defined in revelation already as something else:

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

A dragon in Revelation is Satan.

You're right, specifically you will not find that definition. However, will you find the implied definition used throughout the Bible elsewhere? Yes. I used the implied definition, where it says a beast is a kingdom.

Not talking about the two witnesses.

Terry, beast = kingdom, not a man. There are many beasts in prophecy, which talk about the deeds of the people in their kingdom. Like Alexander the Great, in the 3rd Beast. Is Alexander the 3rd Beast? No. Does the 3rd Beast have a man which goes about destroying kingdoms wonderfully? Yes. Does that make the man the beast? No, that makes the man, a horn. Likewise, does the man with the number 666 mean that a beast is a man? No. It is simply another man, being described within this kingdom.

I have not been elusive. Terry, me understanding your points, does not mean it is Biblical. I have answered your assertions, by showing you that:

1) You are applying different reasoning to the final beast.
2) You cannot show me where scripture makes a beast a man -- ever. It makes a beast a kingdom.

Inconsistent reasoning, and inconsistent defintions of prophetic symbols.

 

[tgwprophet]

Well, if 666 is the number of the kingdom, which is the number of a man in that kingdom, this doesn't mean that Satan's number cannot also be 666. Many peoples names can add up to 666. However, in this kingdom, a significant man has the number of 666. And 666 is this kingdoms number. You are just making things up to suit yourself here. 666 is NEVER "IMPLIED" AS A KINGDOM., BUT IS ONLY IMPLIED (AND EVEN MORE SO) AS A MAN.

You're right, specifically you will not find that definition. However, will you find the implied definition used throughout the Bible elsewhere? Yes. I used the implied definition, where it says a beast is a kingdom. NO! Say it rightly...you used your implied definition... not "the" implied definition... I notice you are quite liberal with the use of alternating meanings and words to fulfill the account you desire.

I have not been elusive. Terry, me understanding your points, does not mean it is Biblical. I have answered your assertions, by showing you that: I gave numbered questions you answered none of them That is being elusive.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Satan is defined in revelation already as something else:

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

A dragon in Revelation is Satan.

Now, you are doing a lawyers Texas 2 Step

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heres another example: " 2) You cannot show me where scripture makes a beast a man -- ever. It makes a beast a kingdom. "

Now I did not say Beast=man I said 8th Beast=man. Also I said you cannot show me where the Bible shows 8th Beast=man.

However, when you said " You cannot show mwe where scripture makes a beast a man - ever - If you had said "you cannot show me where scripture makes says the 8th Beast is a man... " there I can assure you... you are wrong... as i can show you. THUS...Leaving the options of when can I show you, or will I show you,,, and that - for now..is up to me. See just becasue I can does not mean I must... at least for right now. Since you decided to be to liberal with God's Word meanings... I decided to be... conservative, So. since I stated I can show it, it is up to you to figure out how, where or when.

Now you can go into your prayer closet and ask God to telll you why I can make that statement... and if you answer yourself in the still small voice you will come up with that still wrong answer, but If God answers you, you will understand and be in agreement. I wish you Godspeed in finding your resolve.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Raeneske .... you said ...... Actually some Christians may fall for the lie. It's supposed to be such a strong deception, it could deceive the elect (if that were possible). Some don't realize the manner of the Second Coming which Jesus gave. Every eye shall see Him. He shall not come on earth randomly, and start blessing people, and teaching the great truths, while claiming things against the holy 10 Commandments, understand what I'm saying?

I agree about the strong deception and how difficult it will be for the Christians to resist ..... but we must keep in mind that when the bible talks about the lie and the deception ... it then mentions that we know the truth ..... that alone indicates we will be OK.

I guess it comes down to the same old question ...... who is really a Christian ..... and who is not really a christian (but thinks they are)

I often give this a lot of personal thought ...... and (speaking as a Christian) I think what will be extremely hard on us (if we are here during the times of the AC) ....... we will know the truth of what is going on ..... and nobody will believe us.

Just try to picture telling your friends and loved ones that this wonderful person doing all these wonderful things with miraculous proof is actually the evil Anti-Christ of prophecy.

I think it will be a gut-wrenching time for the christian .
I would almost be like a form of torture to watch it unfold.
Yet if we weren't Christians it would be like the best thing that ever happened on earth.
Yikes !!

 

[tgwprophet]

yeah Arnie...

 

[John_8:32]

How can a "kingdom" exahalt itself as a god? The actions of this Beast as well as what happens to this Beast... reflect it is an individual.

Review some films and videos of Nazi Germany and one can see "state worship" at it's ugliest. People were not only enthralled with Hitler, they were enthralled with and worshipped the state. This is, by the way, the fulfillment of...

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The understanding of the Holy Roman Empire being the Beast with seven heads became generally understood at this time. Remember that these prophecies were lokced up, sealed until the end times...

Dan 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Notice that three horns fell and the others stood before the horn? Vandal, Ostrogoths and Heruli were three pagan extensions of the fourth Beast. In 554AD, Justinian resurrected the Holy Roman Empire and six of it's seven resurrections can be traced to the present with one yet ot occur.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

i think the best way to approach this (complicated) topic is to take a broad view of exactly what Satan wants.

He already has a lot of the world deceived
He already has a lot of the world under his influence
he already has most of the world hating Israel
he already has most of the world hating Christianity
But that is not quite enough for him

He wants to be worshiped

In order to do that he must tell the lie that he is the savior
The world wants a savior and wants him as manager
But he still needs a religious element in order to be worshiped
so he sets himself up as 'a god' complete with miraculous signs and wonders to prove it.

If only he could silence the people who claim Jesus Christ is the savior.
That remains his biggest problem to this day

So either we are removed (rapture)
Or we are still here and nobody will listen to us
Or we are beheaded for our testimony

However it is accomplished he certainly will be successful in receiving worship

 

[tgwprophet]

The "he shall" references not a they shall and no man is a kingdom.

The "he shall" is not even in reference to the other 7.

Howbeit anyone would consider Satan would seek a "we shall" rule over a "he shall" rule?