Just think for a moment. I've seen all these things about anti-christ, being of certain faiths. But which disguise would he be honestly less suceptible under?
Satan the Arch-deceiver
- Thread starter Raeneske
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Although most Prophecy teachers such as John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, J R Church, etc... tell us the Beast comes from the Roman Empire... A Roman Beast could be correct and be just as is understood by these people. But then they could be wrong.
Then others such as this forum's Richard Neal claim the Beast comes from Islam. And as we see today - there is allot of validity to this train of thought.
I tend to think what will happen could be so obscure that most will not consider it.
If the world was to stand in agreement on the possibilities on the possible origin of the Beast - giving each a percentage of probability and agree that this or that origin the Beast absolutely NOT come from... that then would be exactly from where he would originate -- most likely.
My thinking at this time (opinion only) is that the Beast which is The Anti-Christ will emerge with a Roman background. The false prophet will be of the origin of the Jews - but most likely not a Jew - just recognized as" a Jew. The False Messiah will be Satan, The Image of the Beast which is given life - will be The Anti-Christ - The Beast AFTER Satan has taken the original body of the Beast which is The Anti-Christ. Could the next Pope be the Beast? - Possibly.
After Satan takes over the body of the Beast - then the Beast which is The Anti-Christ will be void of a body and is why Satan has the image of the Beast made, and where he gets the life that Satan gives to this Image. Some consider that Satan does not need a body... but this would be a "dead give-away":to the identity of Satan. Who would follow a "spirit form" if they ever heard the Word of God concerning the False Messiah? Who would allow Satan to obtain power without a history - parents - grand parents - birth certificate with a country citizenship, witout a strong financial profolio?
Then others such as this forum's Richard Neal claim the Beast comes from Islam. And as we see today - there is allot of validity to this train of thought.
I tend to think what will happen could be so obscure that most will not consider it.
If the world was to stand in agreement on the possibilities on the possible origin of the Beast - giving each a percentage of probability and agree that this or that origin the Beast absolutely NOT come from... that then would be exactly from where he would originate -- most likely.
My thinking at this time (opinion only) is that the Beast which is The Anti-Christ will emerge with a Roman background. The false prophet will be of the origin of the Jews - but most likely not a Jew - just recognized as" a Jew. The False Messiah will be Satan, The Image of the Beast which is given life - will be The Anti-Christ - The Beast AFTER Satan has taken the original body of the Beast which is The Anti-Christ. Could the next Pope be the Beast? - Possibly.
After Satan takes over the body of the Beast - then the Beast which is The Anti-Christ will be void of a body and is why Satan has the image of the Beast made, and where he gets the life that Satan gives to this Image. Some consider that Satan does not need a body... but this would be a "dead give-away":to the identity of Satan. Who would follow a "spirit form" if they ever heard the Word of God concerning the False Messiah? Who would allow Satan to obtain power without a history - parents - grand parents - birth certificate with a country citizenship, witout a strong financial profolio?
You have stated your opinion, thankyou. My only problem at the moment, is why are you attributing the Beast to being an actual person? Doesn't Daniel 7:23 show a beast is a Kingdom?terry said:
Retrobyter
Active Member
Shabbat shalom, Raeneske.
As can be determined by Yochanan's (John's) letters, the "antichrist" is an ATTITUDE, not a person nor a kingdom, and those who have this attitude are called "many antichrists," which were found even in the first century! There are quite a few people who teach against the Messiah being a human being or having already arrived (having "come in the flesh") or being the Son of God. But, to whom would this make a difference? This would most greatly affect the Isra'elites, particularly the Jews, for it is THEY who most look forward to God fulfilling the prophecies in the Tanakh (the OT) concerning the Messiah!
However, the first "beast" of Revelation 13 is a thing that is capable of being thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur BEFORE human beings are consigned there after their judgment at the Great White Throne.
It is the "man of sin" or the "lawless man" or the "man against the Torah" found in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 to which most are referring when they talk about the "Anti-Christ," although they will attribute some of the things that happen to one of the beast's heads to this "man against the Torah." Again, to whom would it matter that this man was against the Torah, God's Law? It would matter most to Isra'elites! Thus, for him to be able to DECEIVE many, he will probably be an Isra'elite, possibly a Jew. Isra'elites, Jews in particular, would RESIST a person who was from a different culture or religion outright, but if one claimed Judaism, befriending the Jews and other Isra'elis, it would be more possible for him to DECEIVE them later.
It's an interesting conundrum; however, I don't think a person is justified in combining these three categories of Scripture together into the picture people try to paint about a person called the "Antichrist."
As can be determined by Yochanan's (John's) letters, the "antichrist" is an ATTITUDE, not a person nor a kingdom, and those who have this attitude are called "many antichrists," which were found even in the first century! There are quite a few people who teach against the Messiah being a human being or having already arrived (having "come in the flesh") or being the Son of God. But, to whom would this make a difference? This would most greatly affect the Isra'elites, particularly the Jews, for it is THEY who most look forward to God fulfilling the prophecies in the Tanakh (the OT) concerning the Messiah!
However, the first "beast" of Revelation 13 is a thing that is capable of being thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur BEFORE human beings are consigned there after their judgment at the Great White Throne.
It is the "man of sin" or the "lawless man" or the "man against the Torah" found in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 to which most are referring when they talk about the "Anti-Christ," although they will attribute some of the things that happen to one of the beast's heads to this "man against the Torah." Again, to whom would it matter that this man was against the Torah, God's Law? It would matter most to Isra'elites! Thus, for him to be able to DECEIVE many, he will probably be an Isra'elite, possibly a Jew. Isra'elites, Jews in particular, would RESIST a person who was from a different culture or religion outright, but if one claimed Judaism, befriending the Jews and other Isra'elis, it would be more possible for him to DECEIVE them later.
It's an interesting conundrum; however, I don't think a person is justified in combining these three categories of Scripture together into the picture people try to paint about a person called the "Antichrist."
Raeneske wrote: " You have stated your opinion, thankyou. My only problem at the moment, is why are you attributing the Beast to being an actual person? Doesn't Daniel 7:23 show a beast is a Kingdom? "
This "beast" is in accordance to what "beast" you examine. The Beast that receives a mortal wound is a person not a kingdom. Though he could represent a kingdom as being the leader... but he is but a singular person able to receive a mortal wound and able to have a miracle heal hm and provide a body for the coming of Satan to inhabit.
Lets color code this to see if it helps.
Yes anti-christs can be of a belief and be many and will be many. But THE Anti-Christ also known as THE Beast is a person which will be Satan himself and tihs BEAST will previously be the one that is wounded/healed and famed and it is he that will inhabit the Image of the Beast becasue Satan took over his body and the world will think the Beast that was, and is not,and yet is...is the Beast
one "body" two souls... Satan and The AntiChrist which is known as the Beast.
The Beast that was = The Anti-Christ a person
and is not = when Satan takes over his ( The Anti-Christ which is known as the Beast ) body
and yet is = The Anti-Christ also known as the Beast and when the Image of the Beast receives this soul.The soul of the Anti-Christ which is the Beast.
I will attempt to give this in a differen light...
Take a Gi Joe figure.... it is the body... put a dress on it... the dress is the soul of the Beast (which is The Anti-Christ ) it was born this way and grew up this way. It has a history.
Now take the dress ( the soul of the Beast off ) as it receives a mortal wound... and so the body has no soul... now, as it is healed... put a suit and tie on it... the suit and tie is the soul of Satan.. and so.. the beast that was...now is not. Next make an image of the Gi Joe figure and put the dress (the soul of the Beast - which is THE Anti-Christ ) on it...and you have the Beast that "yet is" And now, Satan has a body and a History.
Those of you who considered Satan as the beast that was and is not and yet is.... when does he fit te " is not "? lol
This "beast" is in accordance to what "beast" you examine. The Beast that receives a mortal wound is a person not a kingdom. Though he could represent a kingdom as being the leader... but he is but a singular person able to receive a mortal wound and able to have a miracle heal hm and provide a body for the coming of Satan to inhabit.
Lets color code this to see if it helps.
Yes anti-christs can be of a belief and be many and will be many. But THE Anti-Christ also known as THE Beast is a person which will be Satan himself and tihs BEAST will previously be the one that is wounded/healed and famed and it is he that will inhabit the Image of the Beast becasue Satan took over his body and the world will think the Beast that was, and is not,and yet is...is the Beast
one "body" two souls... Satan and The AntiChrist which is known as the Beast.
The Beast that was = The Anti-Christ a person
and is not = when Satan takes over his ( The Anti-Christ which is known as the Beast ) body
and yet is = The Anti-Christ also known as the Beast and when the Image of the Beast receives this soul.The soul of the Anti-Christ which is the Beast.
I will attempt to give this in a differen light...
Take a Gi Joe figure.... it is the body... put a dress on it... the dress is the soul of the Beast (which is The Anti-Christ ) it was born this way and grew up this way. It has a history.
Now take the dress ( the soul of the Beast off ) as it receives a mortal wound... and so the body has no soul... now, as it is healed... put a suit and tie on it... the suit and tie is the soul of Satan.. and so.. the beast that was...now is not. Next make an image of the Gi Joe figure and put the dress (the soul of the Beast - which is THE Anti-Christ ) on it...and you have the Beast that "yet is" And now, Satan has a body and a History.
Those of you who considered Satan as the beast that was and is not and yet is.... when does he fit te " is not "? lol
Well, as far as who the Beast comes as, he comes as a political/military leader...
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Now the Beast has a sidekick, the False Prophet...
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
and is described here...
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
And here...
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
This great false religion is carried by the Beast, rides the Beast and gives power to the Beast. Think of a woman sitting on a horse, guiding and directing the horse.
The False Prophet is the individual at the head of this great false religion.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Islam does not come in the name of Christ...
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Not false Mohammeds, but false Christs. The false religion is 'Christianity', not Islam. Not that all Christianity is false, but the False Prophet will be leading a great false church that has daughters...
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
So, Islam is not the religion of the Beast, it is false 'Christianity'.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Now the Beast has a sidekick, the False Prophet...
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
and is described here...
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
And here...
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
This great false religion is carried by the Beast, rides the Beast and gives power to the Beast. Think of a woman sitting on a horse, guiding and directing the horse.
The False Prophet is the individual at the head of this great false religion.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Islam does not come in the name of Christ...
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Not false Mohammeds, but false Christs. The false religion is 'Christianity', not Islam. Not that all Christianity is false, but the False Prophet will be leading a great false church that has daughters...
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
So, Islam is not the religion of the Beast, it is false 'Christianity'.
I say that the anti-Christ will come in the errored image that carnal man for CENTURIES have pictured him looking likeRaeneske said:
View attachment 125
You don't think these WORLD WIDE Recognized idolatrous images are for NOT do you?
Which Jesus do you think is going to be the most beneficial for you to have in your heart and mind and works of your hands, the image of the man like the one above or "The Word" of God who the Bible tells us he IS and can wash away our sins when we allow the Word to lead us and we choose to follow?
Just as Jesus has a body with many members who follow him being led of God's Spirit... so does the devil have a body with even a LARGER body for every one who is of his unclean spirit, because it works deeds contrary to God's and His Word the CREATOR of all things.Raeneske said:
You will recognize the fruit of the devils children for they are flesh members of our own families. They have a BEAST mentality because they are animal like as in self survival, self centeredness, dog eat dog when it come to food, money, possessions or anything they covet for them selves. They had the attributes that Cain had and more who will kill his OWN BRETHREN for the things of this world rather it is a Christian who is killing other Christians for their earthly country and have turned their back on their heavenly country doing the work of the devil to STEAL, KILL AND DESTROY. They are being BUNDLED to be burned up in war by the sword that God has sent them to, they are tares who only appeared to be wheat. They are the Judas' who have joined themselves to the Beast kingdom and daily KILL AND BETRAY their OWN SPIRITUAL BROTHERS with a kiss! They are like the ones of no understanding and who will probably lash out at me for saying this, for they defend this world and are not concerned with heavenly things where our HEAD said to stay blameless, return no evil for evil, turn the other cheek and if they stone you, forgive them for the know not what unclean spirit they are of and who they really work for.
It is the beastly natured people who raise up(child rearing) leaders who make ungodly laws for them to be able to fulfill their lusts of their flesh that CLEARLY oppose Christ, The Word of God!
The mark of the beast is displayed by the fruit that each man produces which comes from within the tree(man)for what is working inwardly in a man's heart/mind manifests as the Fruit from his mouth and the works of his hands and it will continue down his family TREE producing reproductions of the same fruit thoughout their generations.
There are only two forces on this earth Light and darkness, Good and evil, The Spirit of God and the unclean spirit of the devil.
To test the spirit of a man you just need to see his fruit. If it does not produce fruit worthy of God and can not accept the Word as their final authority, then it is produceing fruit for the devils army because we all produce fruit of somekind and we all are either spiritural warriors for Christ to cast out demons or fleshly warriors for the devil to kill souls. Once a man passes on and they have not received Christ, there are no second chances, so in war when a believer kills an unbeliever he is doing the work of the devil to kill a soul that has no second chance to receieve Christ. And if a believer kills another believer they are just like Cain, killing their own brother to be on top!
And in case we have not noticed, there is never a bad guy in war, for they both pray to God for them to win against THEIR enemy, yet both sides in error think THEY are the good guys, they neither stop to consider that if God's people are to be in Rest, how is it that both sides are suffering death & injury if they are so innocent?
Blessings for your good.
Attachments
The beast that received the Mortal Wound lost it's power, it's worldly power. That's what the Mortal Wound refers to.terry said:
Revelation says the Dragon is Satan, not the Beast. The Beast is a kingdom.
was, is not, and yet is also refers to time periods of a Kingdom being in power. The Kingdom did stand for a while, but then "is not" in power during the time period presented in prophecy, yet is is meaning, the power exists in the same fashion again, it shall exist yet again.
Satan will manifest himself as Jesus in the description found in Revelation.afaithfulone4u said:I say that the anti-Christ will come in the errored image that carnal man for CENTURIES have pictured him looking like
Image of the flesh man.jpg
You don't think these WORLD WIDE Recognized idolatrous images are for NOT do you?
Which Jesus do you think is going to be the most beneficial for you to have in your heart and mind and works of your hands, the image of the man like the one above or "The Word" of God who the Bible tells us he IS and can wash away our sins when we allow the Word to lead us and we choose to follow?
Just as Jesus has a body with many members who follow him being led of God's Spirit... so does the devil have a body with even a LARGER body for every one who is of his unclean spirit, because it works deeds contrary to God's and His Word the CREATOR of all things.
You will recognize the fruit of the devils children for they are flesh members of our own families. They have a BEAST mentality because they are animal like as in self survival, self centeredness, dog eat dog when it come to food, money, possessions or anything they covet for them selves. They had the attributes that Cain had and more who will kill his OWN BRETHREN for the things of this world rather it is a Christian who is killing other Christians for their earthly country and have turned their back on their heavenly country doing the work of the devil to STEAL, KILL AND DESTROY. They are being BUNDLED to be burned up in war by the sword that God has sent them to, they are tares who only appeared to be wheat. They are the Judas' who have joined themselves to the Beast kingdom and daily KILL AND BETRAY their OWN SPIRITUAL BROTHERS with a kiss! They are like the ones of no understanding and who will probably lash out at me for saying this, for they defend this world and are not concerned with heavenly things where our HEAD said to stay blameless, return no evil for evil, turn the other cheek and if they stone you, forgive them for the know not what unclean spirit they are of and who they really work for.
It is the beastly natured people who raise up(child rearing) leaders who make ungodly laws for them to be able to fulfill their lusts of their flesh that CLEARLY oppose Christ, The Word of God!
The mark of the beast is displayed by the fruit that each man produces which comes from within the tree(man)for what is working inwardly in a man's heart/mind manifests as the Fruit from his mouth and the works of his hands and it will continue down his family TREE producing reproductions of the same fruit thoughout their generations.
There are only two forces on this earth Light and darkness, Good and evil, The Spirit of God and the unclean spirit of the devil.
To test the spirit of a man you just need to see his fruit. If it does not produce fruit worthy of God and can not accept the Word as their final authority, then it is produceing fruit for the devils army because we all produce fruit of somekind and we all are either spiritural warriors for Christ to cast out demons or fleshly warriors for the devil to kill souls. Once a man passes on and they have not received Christ, there are no second chances, so in war when a believer kills an unbeliever he is doing the work of the devil to kill a soul that has no second chance to receieve Christ. And if a believer kills another believer they are just like Cain, killing their own brother to be on top!
And in case we have not noticed, there is never a bad guy in war, for they both pray to God for them to win against THEIR enemy, yet both sides in error think THEY are the good guys, they neither stop to consider that if God's people are to be in Rest, how is it that both sides are suffering death & injury if they are so innocent?
Blessings for your good.
Golly Gee Whiz... You mean to tell me that when Jesus returns he will be sending an attitude to hell? or an empire, kingdom but not a person? Please quit. Daffy Duck is not going to suddenly emerge bringing Goofy with him and run an empire even though Goofy would probably do a better job than our elected officials. I am completely lost as to why anyone would even consider the Beast that receives a mortal would... (not a fender bender)... would not be a person.
Not really a mortal wound the world will marvel at its healing? Gee guys did you see them rebuild that building? its a miracle! lol Or... Look at that... that they were able to copy the SOP (Standard Operational Procedures) to the letter, its a miracle...no.... they just had a copy on DVD. sorry... just doesn't work.
The Beast I speak of is the Beast who receives a mortal wound....person
The False Prophet is yet another................................................... person
And Satan he also uses human form..............................................person
the other beasts described and harlots and such etc... are not what I am posting about.
I must take the Beast receiving a mortal wound as a person becasue he receives a mortal wound and not just some damage a dent puller some bondo and paint could fix... or some new dry wall and spackle and paint could repair.
I gave a working model... do the same (not just claims) with your ideas from start to finish and show how it works... then I will dis-assemble it.
Sorry, perhaps my post should not be as harsh as it seems when I re-read it. However I am very adamant about the Beast that receives the mortal wound being an actual person.
Not really a mortal wound the world will marvel at its healing? Gee guys did you see them rebuild that building? its a miracle! lol Or... Look at that... that they were able to copy the SOP (Standard Operational Procedures) to the letter, its a miracle...no.... they just had a copy on DVD. sorry... just doesn't work.
The Beast I speak of is the Beast who receives a mortal wound....person
The False Prophet is yet another................................................... person
And Satan he also uses human form..............................................person
the other beasts described and harlots and such etc... are not what I am posting about.
I must take the Beast receiving a mortal wound as a person becasue he receives a mortal wound and not just some damage a dent puller some bondo and paint could fix... or some new dry wall and spackle and paint could repair.
I gave a working model... do the same (not just claims) with your ideas from start to finish and show how it works... then I will dis-assemble it.
Sorry, perhaps my post should not be as harsh as it seems when I re-read it. However I am very adamant about the Beast that receives the mortal wound being an actual person.
The Beast is a Kingdom. Is it unlikely, that those who are part of that beast, that all shall be tossed in the pits of hell? Those who, refuse to cherish the sins of such a beast, and flee it, are the ones who shall end up saved. Was not Jerusalem destroyed, and the Christians saved out of it in 70 AD. Do not think it an impossibility for a Kingdom, entire kingdoms, to be tossed into destruction.terry said:
Did not the Jewish people lament over the new temple which was built, which succeeded the glory of Solomon's temple, yet not to the eye? A kingdom is simply that, a kingdom, whose power shall rise again to the former heights it had. The mortal wound refers to the kingdom being put out of commission. Again, this same kingdom will arise to the same intolerable power it had hundreds of years ago. Is not the iniquity of man great? Will they not bring about such a power?
What will it serve, to give my understanding of what the beast shall do? Daniel 7:23 is plain, is it not? So then, who is in error in calling the beast a man?
You need not to pick apart my words, but to lay aside your bold assumptions. You are zealous, and it looks angry, but for the wrong cause. If you have a zeal, have it for the Lord, and not your understanding.
If it meant a man, it certainly would tell you, "A man". Like the number of the beast, is defined the number of a man. That itself, is defined as such. The beast receiving the mortal wound by the sword, is the beast kingdom being put out by the military. That mortal wound, is prophecied to be healed and to heal. It is a Kingdom. Search the scriptures, dear Terry.
Raeneske wrote: " If it meant a man, it certainly would tell you, "A man". Like the number of the beast, is defined the number of a man. That itself, is defined as such. The beast receiving the mortal wound by the sword, is the beast kingdom being put out by the military. That mortal wound, is prophecied to be healed and to heal. It is a Kingdom. Search the scriptures, dear "
The Beast that receives the mortal wound IS the Beast whose name is counted to 666 and IS the Beast whose body Satan takes over which is WHY the name of the Beast adds to Satan's number of 666. This IS the Beast that was and is not and yet is... Above you claim this Beast is a man... as does Scripture, so why the arguement?
Not once, but twice the Beast with the mortal wound is referenced to being a person... when the Beast is given a mortal wound and again when the Beast is given a miracle healing and these two are compounded by a world that marvels that healing, yet you think this is a kingdom?
Allow me to see if this will help you... IF the eight heads were kingdoms...then Rome would have 8 hills not 7.
Why is it you attatch a "mortal wound" on a building, kingdom, organization or government and not a PERSON that can actually receive a mortal wound? Then Why do you give a miracle healing to a building, organization, government or kingdom? It just don't fit.
And, by the way.,, your reference of Dan 7:23 was reference to the 4th Beast...But it is the 8th I write of.
I thought I began my post with allot of Humor not anger... am I adamant of my position on this... yes !
One difference between our opinions is that you are willing to attempt sending one to hell if they don't see it your way, and you do this by claiming your opinion has to be the Word of God though in reality it is but your opinion. Do you really think that it is a good idea to try to force one to believe whatever you desire, just by claiming your opinion is righteous? Then you go further by trying to tell me how I feel, another opinion in which you cannot possibly comprehend as much as I do and going even further by trying to tell me what I must do. You wreak of what you claim of me... please stop.
The Beast that receives the mortal wound IS the Beast whose name is counted to 666 and IS the Beast whose body Satan takes over which is WHY the name of the Beast adds to Satan's number of 666. This IS the Beast that was and is not and yet is... Above you claim this Beast is a man... as does Scripture, so why the arguement?
Not once, but twice the Beast with the mortal wound is referenced to being a person... when the Beast is given a mortal wound and again when the Beast is given a miracle healing and these two are compounded by a world that marvels that healing, yet you think this is a kingdom?
Allow me to see if this will help you... IF the eight heads were kingdoms...then Rome would have 8 hills not 7.
Why is it you attatch a "mortal wound" on a building, kingdom, organization or government and not a PERSON that can actually receive a mortal wound? Then Why do you give a miracle healing to a building, organization, government or kingdom? It just don't fit.
And, by the way.,, your reference of Dan 7:23 was reference to the 4th Beast...But it is the 8th I write of.
I thought I began my post with allot of Humor not anger... am I adamant of my position on this... yes !
One difference between our opinions is that you are willing to attempt sending one to hell if they don't see it your way, and you do this by claiming your opinion has to be the Word of God though in reality it is but your opinion. Do you really think that it is a good idea to try to force one to believe whatever you desire, just by claiming your opinion is righteous? Then you go further by trying to tell me how I feel, another opinion in which you cannot possibly comprehend as much as I do and going even further by trying to tell me what I must do. You wreak of what you claim of me... please stop.
Terry, see this:terry said:
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Does this say, the Beast is a man? No, it does not. The number of the beast (kingdom) is the number of a man. That man is part of that beast (kingdom). That man's number is 666, the man is not the beast. That man is part of the beast, but that man is not the beast.
I understand it is the same beast, but you are making beast = man. This is an error. Beast = kingdom. So, when the Beast receives the mortal wound by the sword, the beast is taken out of commission by the military.
When that Kingdom receives a miracle healing, that Kingdom comes back to power. That is what is meant by such statements in Revelation.
Pardon? I'm a little confused by what you're saying regarding Rome, because that does not imply that at all.
The heads are mountains, according to Revelation 17:9. So, those are 7 mountains, which the beast (Kingdom, not a person) sits upon. Secondly, a horn is a king, which is also mentioned by Daniel.
Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
A horn is a king. I know that Daniel 7:23 refers to the 4th Beast. But what is a Beast defined as? A kingdom! So, then this applies where there are beasts, as they are kingdoms. Kings are horns, according to Daniel 7:24.
Terry, the reason God attributes such words in His prophecies, is so that they are cloaked prophecies. They are protected so the wicked cannot understand, but a revelation to those who do understand. Your understanding on the Mortal Wound has brought you to suggest a beast is a man. This understanding is an error. You have suggested, because you do not understand what the mortal wound is. But I have proven from scripture, a beast is a kingdom. To assert it to mean something else, after having seen, is to place your belief over that which scripture gives. In such cases, you cannot be right. I would like you to please view this understanding again. The mortal wound, is the description given for the Kingdom that was taken out of commission, much like such a wound would take a human out of commission. This happened to that kingdom. Then, that Kingdom was again miraculously healed, by being reinstated back to their power, and thus the healing of the wound has begun. When it is fully healed, it will rule the world, with othwr kingdoms.
How have I attempted to send someone to hell for not believing what I have? -- Accusation.
My beliefs are to the best of my understanding as scripture has it Terry. You say one thing, scripture says another. I'm not the one running on opinions.
I apologize if I am telling you what you "feel". But I do not apologize for telling you to look at scripture, and reread it. Scripture says Kingdom, you say man. I will not sugarcoat it. You are in error if you continue to assert such a belief.
I understand you are adamant about your beliefs, many are. But even being adamant, why do we not admit when we are wrong? For example, my opinion on Hebrews 4 appears very wrong, I stopped preaching it, til I can understand it better. This is what we must do. For as long as you assert a beast is a man, that's how long I will assert you are in error. Prophecy and understanding do not come by the will of man, but by God.
First, Scripture does not conflict the opinion I expressed - you merely claim it does...because it conflicts with YOUR opinion. ( I will try to temper my words here ) You have an opinion. I have an opinion - our opinions conflict...ok but that gives you ZERO right to tell me I am in error. I will say this for your benefit.... Scripture tells of the folley for adding to or taking away from endtime Scripture.. please don't do that.... for that is sommething you can do, but I cannot.
You worte: " Does this say, the Beast is a man? No, it does not. The number of the beast (kingdom) is the number of a man. That man is part of that beast (kingdom). That man's number is 666, the man is not the beast. That man is part of the beast, but that man is not the beast. " " I understand it is the same beast, but you are making beast = man. This is an error. Beast = kingdom. So, when the Beast receives the mortal wound by the sword, the beast is taken out of commission by the military. "
Does is say the Beast is a kingdom...? No it does not. You added a sword into the mix as being the wounding weapon, but it does not say that either. Then you added "military" into the mix and militery is never included in Scripture here either... Yet you claim it is ME changing things? Now because the 4th Beast is a kingdom that means the 8th Beast must be as well? That don't work either. Also it speaks of the 10 kings that rise from the 4th Beast and it seems you assume that the 7 and the 8th come from the 10 kings? It tells you the 10 kings come from the 4th Beast.
Where exactly does it say the 8th Beast is a kingdom?
The 7 heads are the 7 mountains on which the woman sits... Most... as does I.. beleive the 7 mountains means Rome.Now if the 8th Beast was also included in that.. then Rome would have 8 mountains.
One cannot give an Image of a Kingdom LIFE, it can be given power or authority and since power and authority are words used in God's Word we must conclude this Image of the Beast is given LIFE or the Word of God would say either; power or authority or power and authority,, but it would not say LIFE.
You wrote: " Prophecy and understanding do not come by the will of man, but by God. " You should have added... " often through the Prophets of God. "
peace
You worte: " Does this say, the Beast is a man? No, it does not. The number of the beast (kingdom) is the number of a man. That man is part of that beast (kingdom). That man's number is 666, the man is not the beast. That man is part of the beast, but that man is not the beast. " " I understand it is the same beast, but you are making beast = man. This is an error. Beast = kingdom. So, when the Beast receives the mortal wound by the sword, the beast is taken out of commission by the military. "
Does is say the Beast is a kingdom...? No it does not. You added a sword into the mix as being the wounding weapon, but it does not say that either. Then you added "military" into the mix and militery is never included in Scripture here either... Yet you claim it is ME changing things? Now because the 4th Beast is a kingdom that means the 8th Beast must be as well? That don't work either. Also it speaks of the 10 kings that rise from the 4th Beast and it seems you assume that the 7 and the 8th come from the 10 kings? It tells you the 10 kings come from the 4th Beast.
Where exactly does it say the 8th Beast is a kingdom?
The 7 heads are the 7 mountains on which the woman sits... Most... as does I.. beleive the 7 mountains means Rome.Now if the 8th Beast was also included in that.. then Rome would have 8 mountains.
One cannot give an Image of a Kingdom LIFE, it can be given power or authority and since power and authority are words used in God's Word we must conclude this Image of the Beast is given LIFE or the Word of God would say either; power or authority or power and authority,, but it would not say LIFE.
You wrote: " Prophecy and understanding do not come by the will of man, but by God. " You should have added... " often through the Prophets of God. "
peace
That last part literally makes no sense, I don't understand how you are drawing that together. No, it says seven heads, are seven mountains. If it said 8 heads, then the 8 heads would be 8 mountains. 8th Beast does not = 8th Mountain.terry said:
The Bible says a beast is a kingdom.
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
So, what were the other three beasts before the 4th Beast? Or the beasts after the 4th Beast? All Kingdoms. I'll illustrate, talking about the kingdoms from Daniel, using the 3rd.
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
Daniel 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
All this talks about the 3rd beast. What is the third beast? Grecia, which was strong. The Horn was the first king of Grecia. Horns are kings, as shown per Daniel 7:24
Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
So, in two places horns are confirmed as kings, and so are beasts. The beasts 1-4 are all kingdoms, likewise the beasts in Revelation are kingdoms. Daniel unlocks Revelation, they speak with the same prophetic tone. To give beast a different definition in Revelation, would be inconsistent.
Scripture does conflict with the opinion you expressed. Scripture says a beast is a kingdom. You say a beast is a man. A horn would be a king, if you were looking for one. That is what I am trying to convey to you.
Whoops almost forgot:
Sword = military
Isaiah 3:25, “Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.”
Isaiah13:15, “Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.”
Acts 12:1-2, “Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.”
Jeremiah 48:2, “There shall be no more praise of Moab: in Heshbon they have devised evil against it; come, and let us cut it off from being a nation. Also thou shalt be cut down, O Madmen; the sword shall pursue thee.”
You are just connecting any scripture to any other scripture that fits your desires.
Good luck with that... i am going to stop here.
btw... the Beast which receives the mortal wound...which is the beast taht was and is not and yet is... htat beast is not a king... so not a horn.
Good luck with that... i am going to stop here.
btw... the Beast which receives the mortal wound...which is the beast taht was and is not and yet is... htat beast is not a king... so not a horn.
No Terry, I am following the rules God laid out for me.terry said:
2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
I will not privately interpret scripture. It will define itself for me. I may get the name of kingdom wrong, or which one. But I will not assume beast means something, like a a real animal. God will interpret what each symbol means. And you go from there. That is what I am trying to convey to you. Not trying to bash you, nor anything else. I would like for you to understand that fact. :)
And you are right, that beast is not a king, so not a horn. You know horn = king. :) And now I would like you to know, Beast = Kingdom.
You wrote: " And now I would like you to know, Beast = Kingdom. "
Only concerning the 7 Beasts... the 8th is a man with a man's name whose number equals 666 the number of Satan. And that Beast is the Beast that was and is not and yet is. AND this is according to my understanding.
And what I am tring to convey to you is that just because you think you have it right and tell others that if they disagree.. then they are wrong or even claim they are calling God a liar...does not make it so, and stressing what you think to that point is not smart. Hollering above the crowd does not make you right - that was the technique Hitler used and you have also been using that method here as well.... not good. You have not proven me in error - you have only claimed it with threats.
Only concerning the 7 Beasts... the 8th is a man with a man's name whose number equals 666 the number of Satan. And that Beast is the Beast that was and is not and yet is. AND this is according to my understanding.
And what I am tring to convey to you is that just because you think you have it right and tell others that if they disagree.. then they are wrong or even claim they are calling God a liar...does not make it so, and stressing what you think to that point is not smart. Hollering above the crowd does not make you right - that was the technique Hitler used and you have also been using that method here as well.... not good. You have not proven me in error - you have only claimed it with threats.
The problem I have with that Terry, is that you have to insert that an 8th Beast is a man. It's not that I don't believe the beast has a leader, and that the Beast will reign. I have a problem with you saying all the other beasts are kingdoms, but this beast is a person.terry said:
So you have personally stated beast = man. Does Beast = man or kingdom to scripture? Okay, my problem with that, is why then do you choose to this time make it a man? I'm sorry, I cannot listen nor believe that. It is inconsistent. A Beast is a kingdom. I don't have to yell over the crowd dear one. I showed scripture which plainly states it, and you plainly admitted it for the other 7. However, for this one you add your own logic to it. I cannot and will not do that. So, you do not agree with scripture on that meaning of Beast.
So, If you are done, then we are done dear one. Beast = Kingdom according to scripture, there is no way around that fact. I mean no rudeness or disrespect, but I cannot say anything else but that fact. You have to place your theory above scripture, what you've known as an interpretation to make beast = man. I will not do that.
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