saved by faith alone

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mailmandan

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i dont NEED TO UNDERTSAND SAVED BY FAITH ALONE I have to understand saved by grace through faith your theory i walk up to a lost man say just have faith your saved. no repentance no grace just have faith if i walked into a bar around here. asking hey do you believe in God do you have faith. they would say yes. then that would mean they was saved
Salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone does not exclude repentance and grace. You still don't understand. Repentance precedes saving faith in Christ (Acts 20:21) and those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and it's by the grace of God that we are saved through faith. (Ephesians 2:8) We are saved the moment that we trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation "apart from works." (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
*It's still salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.
 

mailmandan

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Paul goes all the way back to Abraham (when there was no Law) to refute your claims. Kindly read and study Romans 4 and other passages. So let's cut to the chase:

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

No "works of the Law" here. Just "to him that worketh" (to earn salvation). And as James tells us Abraham was justified before men by his obedience. Abraham was therefore SEEN AS JUSTIFIED by what he did. But long before that he was justified purely by grace through faith.
Amen! No works of the law here and Abraham was BEFORE the law of Moses. Also, when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (good works/works of obedience etc..) but just not "those" works (works of the law). In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work/works of obedience" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So good works are not "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) *NOWHERE does the Bible teach that we are saved by grace through faith "and works." That is salvation by works no matter how much others try to sugar coat it.

Paul does not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law, but includes works in general. In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works.. so the saved by "these" works and just not "those" works argument is bogus.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

*People need to realize that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
 
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Cristo Rei

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i would like to see scripture that has these exact words in it .

There isn't... You know there isn't...

What is faith when your works are bad... Nothing
And what is faith without repentance... Nothing

It such a paradoxal debate I reckon. Useless
 

mailmandan

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your right you don't understand
I understand perfectly and I thoroughly explained my position that you still cannot seem to grasp. When I say saved through faith in Christ "alone" I mean that we are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. We are not trusting in Jesus Christ + works for salvation, but in Jesus Christ "alone." Those who have chosen to place their faith in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. It's also by the grace of God that we have been saved through faith in Christ. Simple!

I walk up to a lost man say just have faith your saved. no repentance no grace just have faith if i walked into a bar around here. asking hey do you believe in God do you have faith. they would say yes. then that would mean they was saved
Saving faith in Christ goes beyond merely believing "mental assent" that God exists. In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Do you understand this?

If you walked up to a lost man in a bar, you don't simply ask him if he believes that God exists and if he says yes, then you declare him saved. You would explain to this lost man that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) If the man repents (changes his mind) and places his faith in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (which is by the grace of God) only then is that man saved. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 20:21; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..)
 

MatthewG

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We are saved by grace through faith. ( I believe a lot of people get this twisted up)

Faith alone in Christ Jesus. Nothing more nothing less.

What happens though after that if a person has received the Spirit of Adoption in which they call out to the Father in heaven? Their heart is changed. Because of Faith we are justified and have peace with God, because of accepting and receiving the truth of the Gospel of Christ Jesus into our hearts, being justified by and through the righteousness of Christ Jesus.

Faith without works is dead? - A change of heart has not been made; a person has stopped God from working in their heart which God performs in a person -> God through the spirit of Christ in a person performs works.

Not us ourselves we take no credit for 'works'. A changed heart by the spirit causes Love towards all people, with peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, joy, and love.
 

DPMartin

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So is it saved by grace through faith, not works (saved through faith in Christ alone) or is it saved by faith and works (not saved by faith in Christ alone?) Saved through faith in Christ alone does not eliminate grace on God's part which is not what is meant by faith in Christ alone.

thing is, what did John say of Jesus? full of grace and truth, right? hence full of the favor of God and Truth of God. the favor (grace) was so prevalent that when the woman dived in to touch the hem of the Lord's garment He told her it was her faith that healed her didn't He. hence the grace of God present in the world to find the faithful. if the grace wasn't required for salvation the Lord wouldn't have provided it.

and again works in Paul's context is the law. works in James' context is the evidence of the faith thereof.

but there is one thing for sure, there is no works done that is acceptable to God, without the faith that is acceptable to God. besides God proves not man, Jesus even went through that process in the Son of man when Satan tried to tempt Him. also one knows a tree by the fruit is bares. just like your constant contentious efforts to confuse the issue.
 

mailmandan

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thing is, what did John say of Jesus? full of grace and truth, right? hence full of the favor of God and Truth of God. the favor (grace) was so prevalent that when the woman dived in to touch the hem of the Lord's garment He told her it was her faith that healed her didn't He. hence the grace of God present in the world to find the faithful. if the grace wasn't required for salvation the Lord wouldn't have provided it.

and again works in Paul's context is the law. works in James' context is the evidence of the faith thereof.

but there is one thing for sure, there is no works done that is acceptable to God, without the faith that is acceptable to God. besides God proves not man, Jesus even went through that process in the Son of man when Satan tried to tempt Him. also one knows a tree by the fruit is bares. just like your constant contentious efforts to confuse the issue.
See post #44.
 

FHII

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Ezra, I still believe that it is grace that does the saving, but I'd like your thoughts on something: if a person is justified is he saved?
 

GRACE ambassador

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your right you dont understand
Interesting: one of the great downfalls of the modern church is we've
replaced "that convicts me" to "that OFFENDS me"

So, the ones who are "convicted that water baptism IS FOR today" are
OFFENDED at The Scriptural Evidence That water IS NOT For Today!?

Sure seems that way to me...
13 Bible baptisms
 

Ezra

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There isn't... You know there isn't...

What is faith when your works are bad... Nothing
And what is faith without repentance... Nothing

It such a paradoxal debate I reckon. Useless
then my are you replying it ? yes i do know there isnt
 

Ezra

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Interesting: one of the great downfalls of the modern church is we've
replaced "that convicts me" to "that OFFENDS me"

So, the ones who are "convicted that water baptism IS FOR today" are
OFFENDED at The Scriptural Evidence That water IS NOT For Today!?

Sure seems that way to me...
13 Bible baptisms
i will keep my stand we are not saved by faith along its by grace through faith for the life of me why anyone wants to brings works up is beyond me
 

Ezra

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if a person is justified is he saved?
what kind of silly question is that ? i could answer that but i am going to avoid that silly question . since i covered justification
 

FHII

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what kind of silly question is that ? i could answer that but i am going to avoid that silly question . since i covered justification
Jot my memory on what you said, if it pleases you.
 

Ezra

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Jot my memory on what you said, if it pleases you.
no i think i will pass as it will lead to something else . i have no need to continue my campaign of saved by faith alone is not found in scripture . our faith accepts the grace of God . its all good
 

FHII

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no i think i will pass as it will lead to something else . i have no need to continue my campaign of saved by faith alone is not found in scripture . our faith accepts the grace of God . its all good
Yea, it probably will lead to something else and you probably don't want to go there. But its good that you have abandoned your campaign. It was DOA.
 

FHII

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Well, even though Ezra has abandoned his campaign, I haven't. Why abandon a quest for truth? The Bible says by grace we are saved. And its by faith. Ole Ezra doesn't seem interested with answering my questions or posts. Thats ok. I don't blame him.

Is a man who is justified saved? I think so... Why would he not be? Would God not save a justified man? I don't see why not.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: [2] By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 3:28 KJV
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I might be wrong, but I don't think there will be a bunch of justified men burning in the lake of fire.
 

Cristo Rei

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then my are you replying it ? yes i do know there isnt

You asked if there is scripture that had these exact words "saved by faith alone". Right?

I don't think there is that phrase written like that anywhere in the bible. Is there?