Saved Or Predestined ???

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kcnalp

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Paul says that they were “chosen” through…belief in the truth. That would most naturally be understood as faith being the means through which they were chosen (just as we are saved by grace through faith). So basically, we have a passage that says they were chosen “through faith” which is exactly what Arminianism claims, and is counter to the Calvinist view that we are chosen unto faith.

"They could not believe"

John 12:38-40
38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?"
39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."
 

JunChosen

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That' some serious twisting, there. Are you related to Chubby Checkers? :)

You can call me anything you like, in fact, I was expecting it. Jesus warned me about people like you that there shall come in the last days scoffers walking after their own lusts. I'm not really surprised.

To God Be The Glory
 

JunChosen

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Paul says that they were “chosen” through…belief in the truth. That would most naturally be understood as faith being the means through which they were chosen (just as we are saved by grace through faith). So basically, we have a passage that says they were chosen “through faith” which is exactly what Arminianism claims, and is counter to the Calvinist view that we are chosen unto faith.

If you have faith why do you need to exercise it?
 

Behold

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The "whosoever that will believe" are the elect/chosen,

""Whosoever"""" can't be a limited number.
Your theology is harmful, junchosen.

You teach that God causes evil. That God "ordains" evil.
This accuses God of being evil.
In other words, you teach that God is the reason for the evil and the pain and the suffering in this world.
That He ordains it all.
Your theology accuses God of the devil's work.
 
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Behold

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You can call me anything you like, in fact, I was expecting it. Jesus warned me about people like you that there shall come in the last days scoffers walking after their own lusts. I'm not really surprised.

To God Be The Glory

In the final years before the Rapture there will be a great "falling away".

This is Jude 1.

Its the situation in the church where you have most believers "fallen from Grace" and trying to save themselves or keep themselves saved.
 
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Behold

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First, regarding the phrase "many are called, few are chosen", such phrase must be taken in the context of the parables where Jesus said such.

In general, a simple refutation of what you say in your post is in the understanding that there are two adams, that is, Adam and Jesus Christ, and that there are two births. And as all who are in Adam died, all who are in Jesus Christ shall be made alive.

Tong
R0512


I spoke about the 1st Adam and the 2nd Adam.
Quoted the verses, and explained them.

Many are called = John 3:16

Few are Chosen = born again
 

Renniks

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2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

That's right, "through" sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To have "through" here to mean by reason of or because of or on account of, is a clear misuse of said scriptures. Paul plainly said that the Christians were chosen by God, and that election was through (denoting instrumentality and not reason) sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Tong
R0514
Twisting the night away. Twisting, twisting...
 

Behold

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Individuals certainly are chosen for salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,


Faith Chooses.
God saves.

A person is chosen, when the "believe".

"all that call on the name of the Lord are CHOSEN" ) "All that call on the name of the Lord shall be saved".
 

Renniks

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"They could not believe"

John 12:38-40
38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?"
39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."
Are you trying to say that none of Israel believed? That's not the case.
Maybe you should read on:

2 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

Israel in general was hardened at this time because of their rebellion. But Jesus wasn't preaching to people incapable of belief. Many did believe.
 

Renniks

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If you have faith why do you need to exercise it?
Because if you don't it dies. Jesus commended people for their faith. There's a whole chapter of the Bible, Hebrews 11, where people are commended for having faith. If faith is something irresistibly imposed on us by God that makes no sense.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
 

Renniks

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You can call me anything you like, in fact, I was expecting it. Jesus warned me about people like you that there shall come in the last days scoffers walking after their own lusts. I'm not really surprised.

To God Be The Glory
I can only do what God ordained me to do, according to your theology. If you are correct, then God is the one who is causing me to have a little fun with this.
 

JunChosen

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""Whosoever"""" can't be a limited number.
Your theology is harmful, junchosen.

You teach that God causes evil. That God "ordains" evil.
This accuses God of being evil.
In other words, you teach that God is the reason for the evil and the pain and the suffering in this world.
That He ordains it all.
Your theology accuses God of the devil's work.

Firstly, salvation is limited as per Matthew 1:21!!!

Secondly, it is your understanding/interpretation of scriptures that are faulty.

Thirdly, although I had NOT stated this any where in this thread, I believe that God do create evil. We read in Isaiah 45:7:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things"

Fourthly, no one today will commit the unpardonable sin.

To God Be The Glory
 

JunChosen

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Because if you don't it dies. Jesus commended people for their faith. There's a whole chapter of the Bible, Hebrews 11, where people are commended for having faith. If faith is something irresistibly imposed on us by God that makes no sense.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

Hebrews 11 is a principle and must be read in light of Ephesians 2:8-9.
Whose faith? Do you know that faith is a work and contrary to Ephesians 2:9?

To God Be The Glory
 

Renniks

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Hebrews 11 is a principle and must be read in light of Ephesians 2:8-9.
Whose faith? Do you know that faith is a work and contrary to Ephesians 2:9?

To God Be The Glory
Faith is not a work. Good grief, you have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the hyper Calvinists.
 

JunChosen

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I can only do what God ordained me to do, according to your theology. If you are correct, then God is the one who is causing me to have a little fun with this.

I can't believe you said that. Do you honestly believe God ordained you to make fun of something that is serious as salvation? I don't believe so!
 

JunChosen

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Faith is not a work. Good grief, you have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the hyper Calvinists.

Again you speak about the things of God knowing nothing!!!

I challenge you to search out the scriptures. You will be surprised at how many false doctrines you hold including that faith is NOT a work.

When appropriate all statements I've made were accompanied with Scripture.
 

Renniks

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Again you speak about the things of God knowing nothing!!!

I challenge you to search out the scriptures. You will be surprised at how many false doctrines you hold including that faith is NOT a work.

When appropriate all statements I've made were accompanied with Scripture.
Read Galatians. Faith is the opposite of works.
 

Tong2020

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I spoke about the 1st Adam and the 2nd Adam.
Quoted the verses, and explained them.

Many are called = John 3:16

Few are Chosen = born again
Your opinions yes, not explanation.

As I said, regarding the phrase "many are called, few are chosen", such phrase must be taken in the context of the parables where Jesus said such.

Matthew 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’

8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”


Go ahead and explain to us what Jesus meant to say when He said in verse 16 "For many are called, but few chosen."

As I also said, in general, a simple refutation of what you say in your post is in the understanding that there are two adams, that is, Adam and Jesus Christ, and that there are two births. And as all who are in Adam died, all who are in Jesus Christ shall be made alive.

Tong
R0515