This question just popped into my head. What do you all think? Can a person who has never heard of Christ before or had any connection to religious instruction, learn how to have a saving relationship with Jesus by simply reading the Bible?
Saved Through The Bible Alone?
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Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
Certainly. Take a look at what Paul says to Timothy about the Scriptures.
2Ti 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it
2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Yeah, but that verse sounds like Paul is saying that Timothy had received religious instruction since he was a kid......I am thinking more about an adult who has never heard of religion before.
Aspen
I agree.
But I also believe that it is the work of the Holy Spirit that saves and not simply the words in the book.
The NewGuy
I agree.
But I also believe that it is the work of the Holy Spirit that saves and not simply the words in the book.
The NewGuy
True - this thread is a bit artificial because we all know that God is the one who saves us.
Aspen
I am not sure that I would call it a bit artificial.
I enjoy reading these discussions.
The NewGuy
I am not sure that I would call it a bit artificial.
I enjoy reading these discussions.
The NewGuy
Anyone can have a relationship with Christ, it simply requires one to sit down and spend time alone with Him, and God doesnt need teh bible to save anyone, that a limit we place on God not one He has placed on us. God will do what He will do no matter how much you think you can control Him. God is God, and if He chooses to save someone He will do it without chuirch, without the bible and without a preacher, He is after all God and not like us.
In His Love
In His Love
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
Wrong.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
No one is saved apart from the Gospel.
Its true the foundation has been laid. Maybe mjrhealth did not consider all the implications. In the same sense even those that build with knowledge of the scriptures it will be revealed by fire. I do believe God uses just what is in a man whether it be a little or a lot. It is said in a proverb that The purposes of a man's heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out. Proverbs 20:5
So to what end will God fail to draw the purpose of a mans heart out? In what ever condition, place or understanding He finds him.
So to what end will God fail to draw the purpose of a mans heart out? In what ever condition, place or understanding He finds him.
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
Paus ( Saul) had a revelation of Jesus Christ, amazing wasnt it, he knew the scriptures and in him thinking he was fullfilling them he went around killing christians, because the " church " approved of what he was doing and there understading and rules made it right in his , there eyes, then He met Jesus, no bible, no gospel, just Jesus, then all he knew was count for nought, He just wanted to know Jesus. That is what revelation does, it frees us not lead us into more bondage.
In His LOve
Paul, as a devout Pharisee, certainly had a knowledge of Scripture in the form of what we call the OT. Yes Christ did reveal himself to Paul on the road to Damascus, but I don't think you can discount that God worked through a life where Paul was familiar with the foundation. (Notice how Paul will later and life go to places where he explains Christ in the context of the OT.) Christ is the living Word.
Do I believe that the words themselves save? No. However, I do believe that a God that ordained these words speaks through them all the time. If they are divinely given and divinely inspired, then it should not be out of the ordinary for them to also inspire. If God wrote us a letter, then I don't view him speaking through it as any form of bondage.
Do I believe that the words themselves save? No. However, I do believe that a God that ordained these words speaks through them all the time. If they are divinely given and divinely inspired, then it should not be out of the ordinary for them to also inspire. If God wrote us a letter, then I don't view him speaking through it as any form of bondage.
Well said, but to the point mjrhealth is defending his statement in that there was no earthly mediator. True, Paul was well versed in probably much more than just the Torah, just the same it was a dead letter knowledge until divine intervention reveled itself giving life instead of death to his knowledge. His knowledge and literary skills have proven to be invaluable to this very day. In its simplest form John said, he that believes in the Son has eternal life. John 3:36 Jesus said in John 3:14-15 I believe this condition was met on the Damascus road. Acts 9:4-5 It was a rough conversion for Paul none the less I'm certain in that moment Paul became a believer in Jesus.
I still value the OT very much and I think it ended up leading people to death because of sin, rather than a deficiency in the scripture. Jesus didn't magically transform the Law into something better - it is still the same law - the sum of it is still love. Now that we have the fulfillment of the Law through Christ, we have everything we need to live, however just like the OT Law, if misread or misapplied, the fulfilled law can also lead to a legalized death if misinterpreted.
Your Gnosticism is foreign to Christianity. You really need to go start a Cathars Board, where you can freely condemn Christianity
I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could show me where God, Christ or the Holy Spirrt, said that the bible was Gods word, or for that matter He was going or write us a letter, Except of course for revelation...
In His Love
In His Love
pia
Well-Known Member
Yes absolutely... I had not had a christian upbringing, nor did I go to church or read Bible.....Pia
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