Saying Christianity isn't a religion is silly

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. I did not contradict myself. "Best defined" as a relationship with a Person (Jesus Christ) does not mean that it's not defined as a religion at all. I have no problem using the word "religion" and I cited "pure and undefiled religion" from James 1:27 (in my original post) which is only descriptive of Christianity and is only found in a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. So I am not against God's Word using the word "religion." Case closed.
Again, you said, I quote:

”Christianity is best defined not as a religion but as a relationship with a Person”

But within Christianity that follows the Bible, we read in the Scriptures of the defining of the word religion as being good and not bad. You said it is not the best defined as a religion and yet the Bible does not say that and nor does it have a problem with that word (As you initially appeared to suggest) and yet you turned around and contradicted that idea (In the same post).
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's not salvation by works AT ALL. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Those who have been saved by grace through faith have been sanctified "set apart/made holy" positionally in Christ (1 Corinthians 6:11) and enter the sanctification process in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality and progressive holiness in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes and motives, is not a one time event. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, continued growth in practical, progressive holiness in our overall behavior. We will not reach ultimate or final sanctification until we receive our glorified bodies.

Sanctification of the Spirit is God's part and belief of the truth is our part. We are called to this through the gospel and the gospel is not salvation by works at the back door, but is the "good new" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of our salvation.

You error through your eisegesis by confusing positional sanctification in Christ (Acts 26:18; 1 Corinthians 6:11) with progressive sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4) and the end result is "type 2 works salvation" (salvation by works at the back door) and that is a false gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) That is YOUR plan of salvation and NOT God's.
Initial Salvation by God's grace by faith alone
(without works):


Ephesians 2:3-5
“Among whom also we all had our conversation [behavior] in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) ;”

Ephesians 2:8-9
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Titus 3:4-7
“But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures”

Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Romans 10:9
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

Romans 10:14-15
“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!”

Romans 5:1-2
“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”

Colossians 1:12-14
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: (Colossians 1:12-14).


After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“…if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

“...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,794
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whatever @Bible Highlighter !

You school yourself and I'll let God's Spirit school me.

We ALL have opinions, even yourself, this does NOT make them TRUTH. GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH ! I pray that whatever I write other than the ABSOLUTE word then the Spirit will cause ppl discernment to trust the word, seek God for themselves and take all else as it is OPINIONS!
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's not salvation by works AT ALL. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Those who have been saved by grace through faith have been sanctified "set apart/made holy" positionally in Christ (1 Corinthians 6:11) and enter the sanctification process in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality and progressive holiness in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes and motives, is not a one time event. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, continued growth in practical, progressive holiness in our overall behavior. We will not reach ultimate or final sanctification until we receive our glorified bodies.

Sanctification of the Spirit is God's part and belief of the truth is our part. We are called to this through the gospel and the gospel is not salvation by works at the back door, but is the "good new" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of our salvation.

You error through your eisegesis by confusing positional sanctification in Christ (Acts 26:18; 1 Corinthians 6:11) with progressive sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4) and the end result is "type 2 works salvation" (salvation by works at the back door) and that is a false gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) That is YOUR plan of salvation and NOT God's.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says, “…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel,…”

God has chosen us to salvation THROUGH the Sanctification of the Spirit. This is a call of the gospel.
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whatever @Bible Highlighter !

You school yourself and I'll let God's Spirit school me.
I also ask God for the understanding on His Word. So you are falsely accusing me in that you think I am only schooling myself, when I know God has helped me many times to see things in His Word I possibly could not see on my own. Also, fellow Christians have helped me to see the truth of certain verses, as well.


We ALL have opinions, even yourself, this does NOT make them TRUTH. GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH ! I pray that whatever I write other than the ABSOLUTE word then the Spirit will cause ppl discernment to trust the word, seek God for themselves and take all else as it is OPINIONS!
There are some things in God’s Word that are not clear. But there are other things in His Word that are very clear because of the many verses that support that particular truth in HIs Word. Many times, I see that Christians are upset with my telling them what God’s Word says. But the Bible says, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” (Galatians 4:16).

Today, many Christians want to be told smooth things and not those things that are correct or right in God’s Word. They want a smooth message only that comforts them and that’s it.

Isaiah 30:10 says,
”Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:”
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No this DOES NOT HELP .I don't need YOU to teach me anything BH, I have the Holy Ghost to teach me . Furthermore I also understand scripture in context but if I don't understand I ask God NOT man.

You may be a good guy with great intentions but your approach is not always in love but rather aggressive and condescending. Nobody likes this.

I am a born again believer & followers of my Lord Jesus Christ under the new covenant of love and grace. I have liberty by faith to hear his words which enter my heart and per the Spirit of God I am reminded of them daily.

I try not to engage with you but when you directly ask then......
If you cannot recognize paraphrase then I'm sorry for you.
Plz move on from me you cannot give me anything I can't get DIRECTLY from God.
How do you explain verses like Romans 12:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1?
 

Gospel Believer

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2019
593
267
63
71
Columbus Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul said, “…the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37).



I am talking about Salvation ....women are “ Commanded” not to speak in Church....if a woman “ does” speak in Church, do you think that she is damned?

It’s the same with the other commandments that Paul mentioned...they have Nothing to do with Salvation....

Salvation-wise, if one follows the only two commands that Jesus left us with, this side of the Cross, you got everything else covered—-You quoted it yourself with 1John3:23 , thus destroying your own argument....” Believe and Love”......

Actually, the only Command with a *MUST* is this one—— “ You MUST be Born Again” .... one gets “ That” by simply Believing Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Him by Jesus) that is Found In 1Cor 15:1-4

You confuse what we “ should “ do with what we “ must” do.....

Breaking Commandments , other than the Commandment to get “ Born Again” will get you Chastised—- they won’t get you damned.....
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul said, “…the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37).



I am talking about Salvation ....women are “ Commanded” not to speak in Church....if a woman “ does” speak in Church, do you think that she is damned?
The breaking of certain commands in God’s Word are attached with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation of one’s soul in the afterlife.
For example: It is clear from the words of Jesus (in Scripture) that looking upon a woman in lust will cause one to be in danger of being cast bodily into hellfire (See: Matthew 5:28-30). While the breaking of other commands in NT Scripture are not attached with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation (Whereby they may not potentially condemn us).

But a true born again believer who is in Christ would desire to obey all of the Lord’s commands.

Why? Well, because Jesus said,

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.” (John 15:10).

Can a person be saved without abiding in the love of Christ (GOD)?

1 John 4:7-8
”Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”

He that loves not… knows not God.

Can a person not know God and be saved? No.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:”

We can have an assurance that we know if we find we are keeping God’s commandments (See: 1 John 2:3).
The person who says they know Him (the LORD) and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4).


It’s the same with the other commandments that Paul mentioned...they have Nothing to do with Salvation....

Salvation-wise, if one follows the only two commands that Jesus left us with, this side of the Cross, you got everything else covered—-You quoted it yourself with 1John3:23 , thus destroying your own argument....” Believe and Love”......

Actually, the only Command with a *MUST* is this one—— “ You MUST be Born Again” .... one gets “ That” by simply Believing Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Him by Jesus) that is Found In 1Cor 15:1-4

You confuse what we “ should “ do with what we “ must” do.....

Breaking Commandments , other than the Commandment to get “ Born Again” will get you Chastised—- they won’t get you damned.....
No. For example: Keeping 1 Timothy 6:12 (Which is a command) is a salvation issue.

Keep the following commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ: Fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life, whereby you are called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses (1 Timothy 6:12-14).

Do you even know you have to fight the good fight of faith to lay hold on eternal life according to 1 Timothy 6:12?
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,794
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Cease!
Find yourself a Church to either preach in or teach a mens or Sunday school group.

You are not making any points with me. The men I need are in the word of God, the HS gives to those whom need a revealing, if not then I did not need to know what is meant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,794
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Bible Highlighter

You post scripture WITHOUT THE CONTEXT this is unacceptable to me. It is another reason I rarely engage with you.

Above are  both the scriptures you asked about in context. Now pray and ask God's Spirit to explain them to you NOT ME!

You TRY TO CORRECT EVERYBODY WHEN ITS NOT NEEDED.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Offering our bodies as a willing sacrifice to God is similar to when Jesus said in Matthew 16:24, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Which is tied to salvation because Jesus said, “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” - Matthew 16:25-26).

Romans 12:1-2 says,
1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Matthew 7:21 says,
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

So you have to do the will of God to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

What is the will of God the Father?

1 Thessalonians 4:3 (NLT) says:
"For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality;"

Hebrews 10:36
"For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."

James 1:12
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."

Are you enduring temptation to receive the crown of life?

1 Timothy 6:12
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,"

Are you fighting the good fight of faith so as to lay hold on eternal life?
 
Last edited:

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Bible Highlighter

You post scripture WITHOUT THE CONTEXT this is unacceptable to me. It is another reason I rarely engage with you.

Above are  both the scriptures you asked about in context. Now pray and ask God's Spirit to explain them to you NOT ME!

You TRY TO CORRECT EVERYBODY WHEN ITS NOT NEEDED.
If we were to always post context, then my posts would be too long for many people to even read.
Some Christians here already have a problem with the length of some of my posts at times.
Also, by the context alone is not always sufficient in every case, either. In some cases, you also have to provide cross references in other parts of the Bible that teach a similar truth or thing.

In addition, (while I love you in Jesus), you have a problem with me quoting actual verses and passages with no context; But you give "likes" to other users here (like mailmandan) who do not even quote the actual verses at times (but he just referred to verses in passing with him using his own words). So your not actually being fair handed here. Mailmandan does not alway post the context, either (and you have given likes to his posts). So why pick on me?
 
Last edited:

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are to perfect holiness in the FEAR OF GOD.

Romans 3:16-18
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Job 28:28
"And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding."

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Ecclesiastes 8:13
"But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God."
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
990
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Cease!
Find yourself a Church to either preach in or teach a mens or Sunday school group.
You have no authority over me. This is a public Christian forum and I am free to preach the Word of God here.
Also, do you not preach the Word here, too?
It does not sound fair that you can preach the Word and yet I cannot.

You are not making any points with me. The men I need are in the word of God, the HS gives to those whom need a revealing, if not then I did not need to know what is meant.
I am only posting God's Word. If you disagree with a verse I posted, the burden of proof is on you to prove that they do not mean what they say plainly. Yes, I am aware at times that certain verses do not always mean what they say in a literal sense like in Isaiah 45:7. The word "evil" is an archaic word in the KJB, and it means "calamity" or "misfortune." God is good (Mark 10:18), and there is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5). So God cannot create evil as how we would understand that word today. So far, I have not seen you prove your case that my interpretation is not correct by using the Bible.
 
Last edited:

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,527
4,806
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where do you believe I did that? Prove your case.
If not, it is simply another false accusation you have made with me several times before (Like your calling me a narcissist when that clearly is a false accusation to the unbiased reader who actually knows what a narcissist is).

The righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel (Romans 1:16-17). For God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). The doctrine that was delivered unto them in Romans 6:17 was becoming a slave to righteousness (verse 18) whereby they would not become a slave to sin. You don’t believe in becoming a slave to righteousness because you believe 1 John 1:8 is an excuse to sin occasionally the rest of your life. Again, anyone can test the fruit of those who believe as you do and they will see that many in the Belief Alone camp are promoting sinful things (like sinful movies, TV shows, etc) (i.e. the fruit of the teaching is bad). What you sow is what you will reap. To sow to the flesh will reap only corruption.
I can't prove anything to a 'spiritual narcissist' who only see's what he wants to see. I'm really not interested in your EISEGESIS or your ridiculous, repetitive straw man arguments. You sound more like a lawyer than a Berean.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,527
4,806
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whatever @Bible Highlighter !

You school yourself and I'll let God's Spirit school me.

We ALL have opinions, even yourself, this does NOT make them TRUTH. GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH ! I pray that whatever I write other than the ABSOLUTE word then the Spirit will cause ppl discernment to trust the word, seek God for themselves and take all else as it is OPINIONS!

You post scripture WITHOUT THE CONTEXT this is unacceptable to me. It is another reason I rarely engage with you.

Above are  both the scriptures you asked about in context. Now pray and ask God's Spirit to explain them to you NOT ME!

You TRY TO CORRECT EVERYBODY WHEN ITS NOT NEEDED.

Amen and again I say AMEN!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: L.A.M.B.