Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Heart2Soul]

yet on this forum, this particular topic, sinless perfection already attainable in this life, would you say that is correct?

No I don't believe anyone can attain perfection. That is what Christ did and completed for all of us.
How many people lack faith to trust God? That's imperfection....how many people are lacking in the knowledge and wisdom of God's Word? That's imperfection....how many people are still on the milk of God's Word? That's imperfection....there is no one perfect. There is none righteous...no not one.
We all fall short of the Glory of God....thats imperfection..
So imho....to be perfect as He is perfect requires us to be righteous by Him...our righteousness is of Him.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I agree that spiritual growth supercedes physical growth and mental growth....knowing the law is knowledgeable...being set free from the law is victory through Jesus.
The lessons learned through spiritual growth come by our choices and mistakes we make as we grow. Also, the Holy Spirit let's us know when we have erred and sinned when we didn't realize we had.

The question is how? Through our conscience.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes...but then he also says "it is the last hour." What does that mean for your idea of the timing?

There was no time given of when the paradigm would materialize, like Daniel had for the Jews. We need to always be ready, not like some teach that we will always sin until we die, and THEN we will never sin again. Satan loves that one. No. Rev. 22:11 says those who are filthy will still be filthy, and those who are holy will still be holy. So the character you achieve in this life will go into the next. That is why we need to live as if this is our last hour.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No I don't believe anyone can attain perfection. That is what Christ did and completed for all of us.
How many people lack faith to trust God? That's imperfection....how many people are lacking in the knowledge and wisdom of God's Word? That's imperfection....how many people are still on the milk of God's Word? That's imperfection....there is no one perfect. There is none righteous...no not one.
We all fall short of the Glory of God....thats imperfection..
So imho....to be perfect as He is perfect requires us to be righteous by Him...our righteousness is of Him.

The apostle said he was grabbing for something - to be found IN HIM - not having a righteousness that is by the law but a righteousness that would come to him through trust. He said he had not yet attained it. But he was running toward it. He was trying to grab the thing he had been grabbed for.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No I don't believe anyone can attain perfection. That is what Christ did and completed for all of us.
How many people lack faith to trust God? That's imperfection....how many people are lacking in the knowledge and wisdom of God's Word? That's imperfection....how many people are still on the milk of God's Word? That's imperfection....there is no one perfect. There is none righteous...no not one.
We all fall short of the Glory of God....thats imperfection..
So imho....to be perfect as He is perfect requires us to be righteous by Him...our righteousness is of Him.

Why would Jesus tell his disciples to be perfect as my Father who is in heaven is perfect if we could never achieve perfection. Do you believe Jesus lied? Why do you think Jesus came? It is because of without Him no one is righteous, no not one. And we must be righteous by the crucifiction of our carnal flesh to be dead to sin, for without holiness, no man shall see God. Heb. 12:14.

 

[Johann]

Your observation seems to have a particular expectation of how others respond.

No I don't believe anyone can attain perfection. That is what Christ did and completed for all of us.
How many people lack faith to trust God? That's imperfection....how many people are lacking in the knowledge and wisdom of God's Word? That's imperfection....how many people are still on the milk of God's Word? That's imperfection....there is no one perfect. There is none righteous...no not one.
We all fall short of the Glory of God....thats imperfection..
So imho....to be perfect as He is perfect requires us to be righteous by Him...our righteousness is of Him.

So imho...now that we have the dikaiosune of Christ, clothed in the garments of salvation. Are we perfect, righteous?
Not able to commit an act of sin in word, thought and deed?
J.

 

[Johann]

The apostle said he was grabbing for something - to be found IN HIM - not having a righteousness that is by the law but a righteousness that would come to him through trust. He said he had not yet attained it. But he was running toward it. He was trying to grab the thing he had been grabbed for.

You are in for a rough ride with these members believing in sinless perfection already obtained in this life.
Good luck
J.

 

[Johann]

Your observation seems to have a particular expectation of how others respond.

Being where He is in Zion. Seeing what He sees, doing what He does, loving as He loves, walking as He walked...no longer I but Christ. Walking in the light is a supernatural walk in a spiritual and eternal resurrection life...we have this treasure in earthen vessels. Being covered PERSONALLY by the righteousness of God.

BYW hiya! :)

Brother, how is Christ Jesus appearing in Heaven now?
And what is He, as our High Priest doing right now?
J.

 

[Johann]

Your observation seems to have a particular expectation of how others respond.

That was subtly put, an underlying nuance there.
I am not here to monopolize members, they are doing a good job of it themselves.
J.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, it’s up to God.
So…you think “abide in Me” is by election? That God chooses who He will allow to abide in Him? Except abide means to remain. So when He says remain in Me, it means…oh never mind, I’m too confused.
I’ll have to keep thinking abide in Me means: remain in trust in Me, keep trusting Me. Otherwise, the verse would have nothing to do with me and would have no encouragement for me.

To be invited into the abode of the King is one thing. To wish to remain there and only there is a whole other thing.

We are to trust in God and rejoice in all things regardless of where we are. We don't choose what country we are born into. Likewise we are born again by the will of God. Election means that our attitude and faith bring us to the attention of God so that we are given a chance to visit His realm. After that its up to us to remain there and desire to be no other place. God has chosen us but we must also choose God.We love Him because He first loved us.

At whatever level of our calling the same things hold true.

 

[Episkopos]

Brother, how is Christ Jesus appearing in Heaven now?
And what is He, as our High Priest doing right now?
J.

Being in the Spirit is not looking at Him...it is looking through Him. We can do all things THROUGH Christ who strengthens us. There is no tourist walk in Zion. The curious part of us is on the cross when we abide in Christ. We enter into the Spirit in order to live THROUGH Christ.

Jesus said that unless we are born again we cannot SEE the kingdom. Seeing is a faculty that is available to us in the natural world...AND also the spiritual realm. When we are filled with the Spirit we see THROUGH the eternal light of God so that we love as Jesus loved and see as He sees....because we are literally INSIDE Christ. In Him is no sin.

I have already used the example of being INSIDE an aircraft that allows us to fly like no human can do in their own strength. The law of flight overcomes the law of gravity. Likewise the law of the Spirit IN (inside) Christ frees us from the law of sin and death.

We are to enter into Christ or "put on" Christ as a covering anointing. There are umbrellas that exist that have plastic windows so that you can see through the covering of the umbrella. Although a crude example...that's how we see THROUGH the covering anointing of Christ. When we look through Him there is a supernatural light present that reveals to us that we are walking in the glory of HIS holiness. That anointing is the experience that causes us to renew our minds...to take in the walk of Christ as the new reality.

 

[Johann]

Being in the Spirit is not looking at Him...it is looking through Him. We can do all things THROUGH Christ who strengthens us. There is no tourist walk in Zion. The curious part of us is on the cross when we abide in Christ. We enter into the Spirit in order to live THROUGH Christ.

Jesus said that unless we are born again we cannot SEE the kingdom. Seeing is a faculty that is available to us in the natural world...AND also the spiritual realm. When we are filled with the Spirit we see THROUGH the eternal light of God so that we love as Jesus loved and see as He sees....because we are literally INSIDE Christ. In Him is no sin.

I have already used the example of being INSIDE an aircraft that allows us to fly like no human can do in their own strength. The law of flight overcomes the law of gravity. Likewise the law of the Spirit IN (inside) Christ frees us from the law of sin and death.

We are to enter into Christ or "put on" Christ as a covering anointing. There are umbrellas that exist that have plastic windows so that you can see through the covering of the umbrella. Although a crude example...that's how we see THROUGH the covering anointing of Christ. When we look through Him there is a supernatural light present that reveals to us that we are walking in the glory of HIS holiness.

You are philosophizing, not adhering to biblical terminologies and I can't stand you misrepresenting the Holy scriptures.
J.

 

[Episkopos]

You are philosophizing, not adhering to biblical terminologies and I can't stand you misrepresenting the Holy scriptures.
J.

I am speaking of my own experiences of abiding in Christ...that relate PERFECTLY with the testimonies in the Bible. Walking in the Spirit is to experience the power of the age to come. If you knew the Bible better you would see many verses in what I'm relating to you. But spiritual things can only be understood by those who are spiritual in Christ.

Reasoning from your carnal mind will stop you from progressing beyond your present carnal state. You are free to look at things from the inner man...by faith. Why not try it?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

No I don't believe anyone can attain perfection. That is what Christ did and completed for all of us

Then why are these things written?

“Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

And if you’re not perfect God shall not be with you.

Christ gives the believer perfection. But now maintain it; it’s the reasonable thing to do:

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1)

 

[Johann]

I am speaking of my own experiences of abiding in Christ...that relate PERFECTLY with the testimonies in the Bible. Walking in the Spirit is to experience the power of the age to come. If you knew the Bible better you would see many verses in what I'm relating to you. But spiritual things can only be understood by those who are spiritual in Christ.

Reasoning from your carnal mind will stop from from progressing beyond your present carnal state. You are free look at things from the inner man...by faith. Why not try it?

You are not using the sword brother, but your own human reasoning.
J.

 

[ScottA]

There was no time given of when the paradigm would materialize, like Daniel had for the Jews. We need to always be ready, not like some teach that we will always sin until we die, and THEN we will never sin again. Satan loves that one. No. Rev. 22:11 says those who are filthy will still be filthy, and those who are holy will still be holy. So the character you achieve in this life will go into the next. That is why we need to live as if this is our last hour.

No...he was really clear..."it is the last hour" means it was the last hour. We're not talking metaphors, etc.. That's what he said.

 

[Episkopos]

You are not using the sword brother, but your own human reasoning.
J.

You disbelieve when I testify of a supernatural walk in resurrection life and I'm the one who is using human reasoning.? ;)

The carnal mind inverts the truth.

 

[Johann]

You disbelieve when I testify of a supernatural walk in resurrection life and I'm the one who is using human reasoning.? ;)

The carnal mind inverts the truth.

Human reasoning without using scriptures.
Late here, tomorrow you and I will dialogue.
J.

 

[Lambano]

The apostle said he was grabbing for something - to be found IN HIM - not having a righteousness that is by the law but a righteousness that would come to him through trust. He said he had not yet attained it. But he was running toward it. He was trying to grab the thing he had been grabbed for.

Is the running, then, what's important, rather than the grabbing?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are in for a rough ride with these members believing in sinless perfection already obtained in this life.
Good luck
J.

well…I believe it is possible.