Scripture in Context

[MatthewG]

I think "tasted of the powers of the age to come" refers to the kingdom age, and that Jesus was giving a taste of what it would be like, and in doing so, showing Himself to be Christ. This is a specific thing.

My thoughts are similar, and if the Kingdom of God resides in believers, today, they are given the power to become sons and daughters of God.

John 1:12 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

If Jesus Christ resides with-in us by faith, then a person have that which is from heaven dwelling in the heart of the believer.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone [a]defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

John 14: 15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[a] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

• Romans 8:9: "You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."

That is why my question was do you believe that we can have a taste of heavenly things now, but you believe it refers to something else. I do believe people will live in hope, and faith that they will become sons and daughters of God, by keeping in step with the spirit, and walking by faith, finding joy in God, and that they are made right with God because of the faith of Christ, and the faith in him and his faith, makes them right with God, and through the death, burial and resurrection process of becoming born again by the spirit, are all factually things experienced subjectively by those who seek out a life with God, with hopeful expectations of what is there in the end. (Galatians 5).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This is what is called a "first class" condition. It's like saying, you drive in the race, IF you are a driver. If you aren't a driver, you are not driving in the race. It's not saying, if you aren't a driver, you've stopped driving the race.

I like that. Lots of these scriptures are speaking to not only those who have been born again but to those who have not and think they are.
Jesus gave us a general idea of this in his Parable of the Sower. The folks who have heard the WORD, and got excited for only a short time and fell away, really thought they believed. But the seed was planted in shallow soil. Yet they briefly identified with those who have been transformed.
This is why these verses have this conditional message, because it is going out to those whose roots are not deep. That is another reason why James pleads with Christians that "faith without works is dead", which is also another conditional type message made to those who may be self deceived. James puts them to the test. "Are you a true Christian, let's see your works/ fruit". The true Christian will have fruit.
The Bible challenges our thinking and beliefs. God tests us and threatens us with judgment, chastising those He loves but not unto death, as a loving parent would, to keep us in line.
These apparent conditional messages are good for us. We need to examine oursleves, our we really on board ... is our faith secure? Was our seed planted in fertile soil?

 

[MatthewG]

I like that. Lots of these scriptures are speaking to not only those who have been born again but to those who have not and think they are.
Jesus gave us a general idea of this in his Parable of the Sower. The folks who have heard the WORD, and got excited for only a short time and fell away, really thought they believed. But the seed was planted in shallow soil. Yet they briefly identified with those who have been transformed.
This is why these verses have this conditional message, because it is going out to those whose roots are not deep. That is another reason why James pleads with Christians that "faith without works is dead", which is also another conditional type message made to those who may be self deceived. James puts them to the test. "Are you a true Christian, let's see your works/ fruit". The true Christian will have fruit.
The Bible challenges our thinking and beliefs. God tests us and threatens us with judgment, chastising those He loves but not unto death, as a loving parent would, to keep us in line.
These apparent conditional messages are good for us. We need to examine oursleves, our we really on board ... is our faith secure? Was our seed planted in fertile soil?

Some good points, Ronald, it is a wonder if a person has went through all four stages of soil in their life, and through it all they continue to hold on to faith, or let it go. It is most certainly a choice, there is only one work that I know which is of believing on the one whom God had sent, and to love God first, and love one another as yourself. Which would be to share knowledge and wisdom with others when led by the spirit, and to share the good, milky, things of God with others, maybe even the hard, meaty, parts.

 

[marks]

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV
1) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Simply stated, this is what unbelievers do. There is nothing in this passage of the redeemed being sold back into sin.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

*By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

James 1:1 KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James wrote to Jews who lived in other lands, and not exclusively to believers.

Paul wrote in similar fashion,

Romans 9:1-4 KJV
1) I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Might James be writing this way? Is he writing exclusively to the born again?

James 1:22-26 KJV
22) But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23) For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24) For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

He includes the self deceived.

James 2:14-17 KJV
14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

He includes those without a true saving faith.

{I'm including this verse just because it's so good . . .

James 3:13 KJV
13) Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.}

James 4:4 KJV
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

James 5:1-6 KJV
1) Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2) Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3) Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4) Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5) Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6) Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

Is James really writing only to the born again? Or does he include unredeemed sinners? By these passages, I'd have to say, he wrote to the Jews of the Diaspora, living in other lands, both regenerate and unregerate. The saved, and the sinners.

James 5:19-20 KJV
19) Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Much love!

 

[Augustin56]

"Actual meaning" according to whom? By whose authority? Whose interpretation?

2 Peter 1:20-21
Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,
for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

 

[marks]

"Actual meaning" according to whom? By whose authority? Whose interpretation?

2 Peter 1:20-21
Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,
for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

2 Peter 1:19-21 KJV
19) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1:19-21 LITV
19) and we have the more established prophetic Word, in which you do well to take heed, as to a lamp shining in a murky place, until day dawns and the Light-bearing One rises in your hearts;
20) knowing this first, that every prophecy of Scripture did not come into being of its own interpretation;
21) for prophecy was not at any time borne by the will of man, but being borne along by the Holy Spirit, holy men of God spoke.

2 Peter 1:19-21 YLT
19) And we have more firm the prophetic word, to which we do well giving heed, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, till day may dawn, and a morning star may arise—in your hearts;
20) this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition,
21) for not by will of man did ever prophecy come, but by the Holy Spirit borne on holy men of God spake.

This is a passage concerning the origin of Biblical prophecy, as is shown in the grammar of vs. 20, and the simple statement of vs. 21.

"come into being" is the thought here, the origin, not by private explanation (that is, the prophet's own ideas), not by the choice of a man, the the Holy Spirit carried the holy men who spoke His Word.

Much love!

 

[marks]

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

2 Peter 2:1-12 KJV
1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6) And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7) And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8) (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
9) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10) But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11) Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Like natural brute beasts, who's nature has not been changed in regeneration.

2 Peter 2:22 KJV
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:1-4 KJV
1) Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2) Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

You should earnestly contend for the faith, because ungodly men have snuck in . . .

This is a passage warning of those who are false having crept in among those who are true.

Much love!

 

[Truthnightmare]

Over the years I've been interested in reviewing anyone's list of Scriptures which they give to show that "salvation can be lost". What that idea really means is that while Jesus begins your salvation, you must complete it in some way.

I never stop learning, and this is such a great way to review and study Scripture. I've seldom found that those who post such lists actually know the meanings of the passages in context. I've always found that putting the verse back into context tells us what we need to know.

So here is a recent list posted to show we can become "unsaved" after being "saved". I'm putting these words in quotes, because the Bible doesn't really talk that way. It talks of being born again, and it talks of being "in Christ".

With no further ado . . .

As I have time, I plan to take each of these, put it into it's context, and show the actual meaning.

Much love!

.​

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. KJV

a falling away: Greek word #646 apostasia (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah); feminine of the same as NT:647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ["apostasy"]: KJV - falling away, forsake​

 

[marks]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. KJV

Apostasia . . . used one other place in the Bible . . .

Acts 21:18-22 KJV
18) And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22) What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

In Classical Greek Apostasia, from "apo", "away from", and "stao", "I stand", literally means "away from standing" and means "departure".

Paul was accused of teaching them to forsake Moses, that is, to depart from the practice of circumcision, and their other customs.

Interestingly, Aristophanes, the "Greek Shakespeare", if you will, wrote a play called "The Birds", where in it two men had made a pact that they were going to leave the ground, and fly up to the bird city in the sky, in what they called their apostasia.

This passage does not make the same sort of direct statement about the regenerate dying again, as do other passages which make very plain statements that this doesn't happen, that those risen with Christ will in fact appear with Him, the children of God will in fact become like Jesus, and more like this.

Is this the rapture of the church, our departure? Is this a rebellion against God? Is this the born again dying again? We need to look to other passages to clarify this for us.

Much love!

 

[Truthnightmare]

Apostasia . . . used one other place in the Bible . . .

Acts 21:18-22 KJV
18) And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22) What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

In Classical Greek Apostasia, from "apo", "away from", and "stao", "I stand", literally means "away from standing" and means "departure".

Paul was accused of teaching them to forsake Moses, that is, to depart from the practice of circumcision, and their other customs.

Interestingly, Aristophanes, the "Greek Shakespeare", if you will, wrote a play called "The Birds", where in it two men had made a pact that they were going to leave the ground, and fly up to the bird city in the sky, in what they called their apostasia.

This passage does not make the same sort of direct statement about the regenerate dying again, as do other passages which make very plain statements that this doesn't happen, that those risen with Christ will in fact appear with Him, the children of God will in fact become like Jesus, and more like this.

Is this the rapture of the church, our departure? Is this a rebellion against God? Is this the born again dying again? We need to look to other passages to clarify this for us.

Much love!

Hey there, well I didn’t want to repost a scripture that has been already used. But, I believe the answer has been given…

Ezek 18:21-26 (speaking of the good gone bad, and the living becoming dead)
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. (KJV)

 

[marks]

Hey there, well I didn’t want to repost a scripture that has been already used. But, I believe the answer has been given…

Ezek 18:21-26 (speaking of the good gone bad, and the living becoming dead)
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. (KJV)

This is fully in keeping with the covenant God made with Israel at Mt. Horeb,

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

This was at heart a very simple covenant.

Leviticus 18:1-5 KJV
1) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.
3) After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
4) Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.
5) Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

If you kept God's law, by that keeping of the Law you live.

If you will obey my voice indeed.

If you did not obey, death was the result.

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Now, "the just shall live by faith".

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The cross changed everything.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hey there, well I didn’t want to repost a scripture that has been already used. But, I believe the answer has been given…

I don't mind repetition, it's actually good, I think! I've looked at these passages many many times, and I will look at them again and again many more times. It's good for me, and good for others.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Jude 1:17-21 KJV
17) But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18) How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19) These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21) Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Jude is here quoting from Peter,

2 Peter 3:1-4 KJV
1) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2) That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

These scoffers, who question God's promise, are these the born again? Are they Christians?

2 Peter 3:13 KJV
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter is contrasting those who scoff with "we according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth". "We" don't scoff.

Is this in harmony with what Jude wrote?

19) These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jude 1:19 LITV
These are they setting themselves apart, animal-like ones, not having the Spirit.

Jude 1:19 YLT
these are those setting themselves apart, natural men, the Spirit not having.

These are not Christians. The are natural men, without the Spirit, who set themselves apart from Christians.

Meanwhile,

Jude 1:19-21 KJV
19) These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21) Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

We are looking for mercy when Jesus comes, and this keeps us in God's love. Not that if we aren't expecting mercy that God doesn't love us. But if we aren't expecting mercy, we won't be experiencing God's love as we would knowing that we are forgiven, cleansed, regenerated, and will be with Him in glory.

Much love!

 

[Truthnightmare]

I don't mind repetition, it's actually good, I think! I've looked at these passages many many times, and I will look at them again and again many more times. It's good for me, and good for others.

Much love!

One of the problems I see is that Jesus stated..

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:3
And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

This narrative is outlined, as we see Christian’s who are saved and lose their salvation by worshipping the false messiah.

 

[marks]

One of the problems I see is that Jesus stated..

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:3
And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

This narrative is outlined, as we see Christian’s who are saved and lose their salvation by worshipping the false messiah.

Are you talking about "will remove thy candlestick out of it's place"?

Revelation 1:20 KJV
20) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

This letter to the messenger of the church of Ephesus warns him that he's lost his first love, and to repent, or he's going to lose his church, Jesus will remove it.

This is not speaking of losing one's salvation. But if you are going to be the messenger of the church, Jesus wants you in love.

Much love!

 

[Truthnightmare]

Are you talking about "will remove thy candlestick out of it's place"?

Revelation 1:20 KJV
20) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

This letter to the messenger of the church of Ephesus warns him that he's lost his first love, and to repent, or he's going to lose his church, Jesus will remove it.

This is not speaking of losing one's salvation. But if you are going to be the messenger of the church, Jesus wants you in love.

Much love!

This letter to the messenger of the church of Ephesus warns him that he's lost his first love, and to repent, or he's going to lose his church, Jesus will remove it.

Does that not prove my point?
What is the Church?
The church is the body of Christ, and Christ is the head of that body.

So what you are saying is that the body will be removed and if the body is removed then the head of the body would also be removed.

The head is your salvation.

 

[Truthnightmare]

There is an essence of truth, that Christ always incorporates into to His words. Let me elaborate..

Faith without works is dead, and we shall be judged by our works.

Look at this parable carefully…

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

We have two people (probably men) working in the field.. We have to woman working at the mill.

These servants are working for there master and doing what they are suppose to do, they are essentially saved.

But the master has left, and none of the servants know when He will return.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. (Keep working)

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; (salvation lost)

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Some good points, Ronald, it is a wonder if a person has went through all four stages of soil in their life, and through it all they continue to hold on to faith, or let it go. It is most certainly a choice, there is only one work that I know which is of believing on the one whom God had sent, and to love God first, and love one another as yourself. Which would be to share knowledge and wisdom with others when led by the spirit, and to share the good, milky, things of God with others, maybe even the hard, meaty, parts.

I know personally, when I was eleven and went to church, my soil must have been rocky. It meant nothing. It went in one ear and out the other and did not stick. I wasn't ready until I was 35 years old. So yes the gospel can be scattered like seed your way many times in your life and not take root until God has prepared your heart to receive it.

 

[Debp]

The fiery judgment for believers is found in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 where their works will be tested by fire, although the believer will themselves be always saved.

How much clearer can it be, that someone who is born of the Spirit cannot be lost...

11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
1 Cor. 3:11-15

Yes, there is so much in the NT of testing people to prove what is true about them. Someone professes faith, but that doesn't mean they are born again. Circumstances in life will be contrary to us, and our response will demonstrate what is true of us. Do we believe? Or do we not actually believe? Those who are true will endure, and those who are not will fall away, not from a faith they don't actually have, but from their profession of faith.

Much love!

True, circumstances and trials reveal much about a person. True faith or just a profession of faith.