Scripture Interpretation ?
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quietthinker
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Stranger, you have many hoops you require yourself to jump through.
I have wondered about the hoop jumping strategy. Personally I have found it alienating.
I have learnt that unless God's Spirit moves on a persons heart little is accomplished by my rational.
God can and will reach a person independent of and in spite of my ego. I pray that I am never a stumbling block.
I am not sure what you mean by 'many hoops I require myself to jump through'. Explain, and why is it alienating?
No one would argue that, "unless God's Spirit moves...little is accomplished...." Apparently we disagree on the movement of God's Spirit.
Again, tell me where I was wrong in #54.
Stranger
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Back to the OP. Very simple. You are all Gentiles today, whether you think you are or not. The only books available for Gentiles today are Paul's books written AFTER Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. These books talk about a new, all-Gentile church that, unlike any other group in the Bible, has a calling of spending eternity in Heaven. The other 59 books are all-Israel and their calling is either the Earth or the New Jerusalem, which is not Heaven, but comes down out of Heaven and docks on the New Earth. These 59 all-Israel books include Paul's 6 or 7 Acts books, Rom, Cor, Thess, Gal, Heb, because all Gentiles in the Acts church were grafted into Israel and were, therefore, part of Israel.
So, to properly interpret the Bible and determine what belongs to you and what God plans for you, you first eliminate from your doctrine all those things from those 59 Jewish books that you have been brainwashed into believing belong to you and then find out what REALLY belongs to you by studying Paul's post-Acts books, ONLY!!! Very simple in theory, although it took me 10 years to force all that Jewish baggage out of my brain.
I'm not saying to eliminate any of those 59 books, just the parts where things were given to Israel. Get rid of all the Jewish possessions like the 10 Commandments, the Lord's Prayer, the Sermon on the Mount, the Great Commission, the Gifts, the rapture, the Acts Church, etc., etc., etc. I know it's hard to swallow, but NONE of those things you have been falsely taught to cherish all of your life have anything to do with any Gentile, really. The bulk of those books are still very valuable for your learning and edification - it's just that little or none of the possessions in them are for you or me. Those things weren't given to Gentiles when they were given to Israel. What arrogance makes you think you can claim them now? Gentiles were never God's chosen people from Gen 12 thru Acts -Israel was. The Gentiles are now God's chosen people, but we can only find that in Paul's after-Acts books. In this discussion, deity and salvation are not included.
All of this comes from obeying 2Tim 2:15, the rightly dividing, which means to Correctly Cut, of God's Word of Truth. According to that verse, if you cut His Word correctly, you will be approved unto Him and will have no reason to feel ashamed.
So, to properly interpret the Bible and determine what belongs to you and what God plans for you, you first eliminate from your doctrine all those things from those 59 Jewish books that you have been brainwashed into believing belong to you and then find out what REALLY belongs to you by studying Paul's post-Acts books, ONLY!!! Very simple in theory, although it took me 10 years to force all that Jewish baggage out of my brain.
I'm not saying to eliminate any of those 59 books, just the parts where things were given to Israel. Get rid of all the Jewish possessions like the 10 Commandments, the Lord's Prayer, the Sermon on the Mount, the Great Commission, the Gifts, the rapture, the Acts Church, etc., etc., etc. I know it's hard to swallow, but NONE of those things you have been falsely taught to cherish all of your life have anything to do with any Gentile, really. The bulk of those books are still very valuable for your learning and edification - it's just that little or none of the possessions in them are for you or me. Those things weren't given to Gentiles when they were given to Israel. What arrogance makes you think you can claim them now? Gentiles were never God's chosen people from Gen 12 thru Acts -Israel was. The Gentiles are now God's chosen people, but we can only find that in Paul's after-Acts books. In this discussion, deity and salvation are not included.
All of this comes from obeying 2Tim 2:15, the rightly dividing, which means to Correctly Cut, of God's Word of Truth. According to that verse, if you cut His Word correctly, you will be approved unto Him and will have no reason to feel ashamed.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I cannot but see you have embraced a view that separates people from people Ac28, contrary to the scriptures directive of God reconciling the world in Jesus where gender or race are irrelevant.
I know you perceive yourself as having great enlightenment as have many in history by creating this division.
All peoples are sons and daughters of Adam. All peoples come from the same stock. God is in the business of reconciling the world to himself as one, not as divided. He does not have rules for one that differ to rules for another.
What a lie.
First of all, not all in the Church are Gentiles. There are some Jews. Just because they get saved doesn't mean they become Gentiles.
Second of all, you give the Christian today only seven books from which he is to believe pertain to him and from which he builds his doctrine. Which is contrary to (2 Tim. 3:16-17) " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. "
Note the phrase 'All Scripture'. And the phrase 'that the man of God'. And this comes from one of 'your' select books. Perhaps you should only have six books to work from.
Point being: Today the man of God, who is the Christian, has the whole Bible to use for his doctrine. Understanding differences between Israel and the Church does not mean some Scripture are not for him. They are all for him. And even those that apply to Israel and not the Church, the believer learns something of God and can make application to them concerning his walk even though he recognizes they are addressed to Israel.
You are knowingly trying to teach the believer that his Bible is not for him. You have given him just a very small part. This is contrary to the Word of God as I showed you. This is contrary to God and Jesus Christ. (Luke 24:44-47) "...all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me....And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
You are teaching a very heretical doctrine.
Stranger
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I checked out post #54, and I don't see any hoops to be jumped through. What Stranger is saying is that unless two individuals are on the same page regarding the authority of Scripture (and are being guided by the Holy Spirit), it is difficult to talk about interpretation.
And that is true.
There are some who believe that there are errors in the Bible, while there are some who believe that extra-biblical books are on a par with Scripture. There are even some who believe that Paul was at odds with Christ, therefore his epistles are irrelevant.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The translators were highly educated men, yet chose to leave obvious discrepancies in the scriptures. Were these men not aware of the differences? Why did they leave them? Take for example the difference between Marks account of Jesus visit to the cemetery and Matthew's account of the same episode. Mark says one demoniac, Matthew two. A clear and obvious difference, yet also clearly the very same incident. Which gospel is the word of God? Which was inspired? Who was wrong, Matthew, Mark, or the bevy of translators over the centuries who all agreed to the varying accounts given? Or are they in some way, all correct???? Those maintaining that the Bible is word perfect in its original form but translated incorrectly, please explain why the translators would have left this blazingly obvious contradiction intact even at the risk of their own tarnished reputation?
bbyrd009
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they left them bc they understood dialectic reasoning, and knew that the accounts were stated dialectically and not logically. How a cohesive NT was produced in the chaos of the time i don't quite get...but i guess that all came later, directly afterward. The "two" possessed guys are revealed to be one when considered dialectically though, just as we are all "two men" in a bed, or a field
imo
bbyrd009
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ha well if it was translated incorrectly then they would have been the ones installing the contradiction, right, not the ones leaving a contradiction in. But the contradictions are in the orig too, as Lex will testify
could have been two different incidents like the sermon on the mount etc - twinc
And two separate incidents where the result in both was a herd of pigs going swimming? The pork industry must have really hated Jesus.
Which leads me to the only viable conclusion: the ideas, principles, and concepts of the Bible were inspired...the actual words themselves were those of the writers.
bbyrd009
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imo it would be really hard to present the same reasoning as that used in Dao to a logically trained thinker, and the Dialecticism in the Bible is on a completely different level than Dao; Paul's discourse on "running the race" that amounts to essentially "don't run the race" is one example; "absent from the body" is another i guess.
It leaks out in other places, "hidden from the wise," etc, but it is done so artfully that there is always a logical explanation too; a reader at Paul's "running races" might still justify "competition" after reading the passage. Hard to believe a single human could have been so clever, and hard to see how a group could arrive at a consensus. So i'm tempted to dispute your last point, but at the same time my brief experience among dialectic thinkers from birth suggests to me that maybe they could achieve this, whereas a group of logical thinkers prolly could not; although they might be better equipped to accomplish other things, moon landings or whatever, tech stuff. So not trying to put logical thinking down here either.
About running the race... What I take from that is that while it is essential that we be a part of the race, completing the race is all the criteria required to be a winner... Its not about first across the line.
Short answer: They were not to become editors of Scripture. Just translators. Modern textual critics took upon themselves the task of editing the Bible, even though they had no authority to do so.
As to what you mentioned regarding "the words" of Scripture, even though they were the words of the writers, they were at the same time (and more importantly) the words of God the Holy Spirit. Hence every jot and tittle was sacrosanct.
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Prov 30:5,6).
Sorry, but believing every single word in scripture is inspired in the face of obvious contradictions, what you are expecting people to accept is akin to what Catholics expect their people to believe in the eucharist, that despite all evidence to the contrary, and all logic and common sense, we literally eat God. You, by your literalist viewpoint, are expecting us to believe that one account is literally as true as the other; that in order to be faithful to God's word, we must believe that both accounts were equally accurate in every respect. Sorry, that does not wash. God does not expect us to lose all reason and common sense when asking us to practise our faith.
That God has allowed those contradictions to remain is beyond all question, and likely deliberately so. If God wanted no contradictions, He would have arranged such. That He has allowed this is proof that He uses mortal error prone human beings as His agents and representatives, despite their flaws, and doesn't overrule or interfere. As I have said before, these contradictions do not disprove the Bible as inspired, but reinforce it. Just as in life no two witnesses will agree perfectly on their account of any event, unless they colluded in their testimony, so the gospel accounts, though differing in detail, add weight of proof that these events were real. How many demoniacs isn't that important. The principle and concepts that the event brings to our minds are what was inspired to bring change and salvation to ourselves. Just as it is with the rest of scripture.
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