Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #2

[Wrangler]

Trinitarians persist in sweeping away verses that undermine their doctrine and demand their interpretation on other verses be taken Request denied. This is thread is about verses that undermine trinitarianism.

Well it is true no matter what argument you try to bring. Jesus is the First and Last mentioned in Revelation.

Speaking for God as prophets due.

Did Jesus discredit Himself when He said I and the Father are one?

Not at all. It's just this does not make him God any more than we are, being on the same page. John 17:22

did Jesu9s discredit Himself when He accepted Thomas Calling HIm HIs Lord and God?

Thomas' "calling" is nothing of the sort; just an exclamation. Like when I knock over a glass and yell, "Oh crap!" I am not declaring the spilled glass is, in fact crap, or God.

Did Jesus discredit Himself when He called HImself Gods son, making
Himself equal to God?

No more equal to God than we are. Psalm 82:6.

This is not Jesus seeking an ego boost, but simply declaring who He has been for all eternity! God with His Father.

God is the Father alone. Jesus never claimed to be God. Rather, Jesus said his father is the only true God. The only God is Jesus' God. John 17:3

 

[BreadOfLife]

We will have to agree to disagree that YOUR take on his Word is to be made an obstacle to to bringing people to Christ.

Whatever you say.

Good luck with that . . .

 

[Wrangler]

Whatever you say.

Good luck with that . . .

Thank you. Have a blessed day!

 

[Illuminator]

Anti-trinitarians (mostly made-in-America cults) belong in the Unorthodox Doctrine forum.

 

[teamventure]

Jesus is not the one speaking here. Otherwise it would state Jesus but it does not. It's the One who begat him that Always Existed.

However, I do agree with you that Jesus was speaking at (Rev 22:16) in giving details to who he was. "I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star." (Revelation 22:16)

Stars are angels. (Revelation 1:20) When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? (Job 38:7)

So to be anti-trinitarian is to take Jesus out of deity. Wow.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Trinitarians persist in sweeping away verses that undermine their doctrine and demand their interpretation on other verses be taken Request denied. This is thread is about verses that undermine trinitarianism.

We don't sweep them away, we just consider them with the ver4ses that defend trinitarianism.

Not at all. It's just this does not make him God any more than we are, being on the same page.

John 17 does not make the disciples one with Jesus. REad it with eyes open this time:

John 17:22
King James Version

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus and the Father are one- and Jesus prayer is the disciples may be one just like Jesus and the Father are one!

Thomas' "calling" is nothing of the sort; just an exclamation. Like when I knock over a glass and yell, "Oh crap!" I am not declaring the spilled glass is, in fact crap, or God.

So you have drank the Watchtower Kool-Aid. Your response deserves an "oh Crap". Jews would not say "my God" as an exclamation- that would have been blasphemy and taking the Lords name in vain! And Thomas spoke with the definite articles before Lord and god! Thus
Thomas declared Jesus to be His Lord and God!

No more equal to God than we are. Psalm 82:6.

So you believe that Jehovah is a child of the most high as well? He is called elohim as well!

God is the Father alone. Jesus never claimed to be God. Rather, Jesus said his father is the only true God. The only God is Jesus' God. John 17:3

Then you are forced to concede that Jesus is a false god! Scripture absolutely declares Him God !

John 1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Why do you deny the Scriptures?

2 Jehovahs
Elohim is the plural of Elowah
Adonai is the plural of Adon.

No one is arguing that the Father is above the Son in exaltation and position. That is a given. But that does not mean that Jesus is less God than the Father. they are both equally divine in nature but less in exaltation

 

[Wrangler]

We don't sweep them away, we just consider them with the ver4ses that defend trinitarianism.

There is not one single verse in all of Scripture that defends trinitarianism. This is the principle reason you must blast so many verses, hoping one sticks. The verses provided undermine trinitarianism. If trinitarianism had an ounce of truth to it, there would not be one verse in all of Scripture that goes against it.

'Jack and Jill went up the hill' is a sentence that indicates 2 beings. Same with the verses provided. No amount of double talk or diversion will change the word of God that indicates many times that God and Jesus are 2 beings.

 

[theefaith]

There is not one single verse in all of Scripture that defends trinitarianism. This is the principle reason you must blast so many verses, hoping one sticks. The verses provided undermine trinitarianism. If trinitarianism had an ounce of truth to it, there would not be one verse in all of Scripture that goes against it.

'Jack and Jill went up the hill' is a sentence that indicates 2 beings. Same with the verses provided. No amount of double talk or diversion will change the word of God that indicates many times that God and Jesus are 2 beings.

what about Matt 16:18 and 18:18
What you bind on earth is bound in heaven
The trinity is Christian doctrine truth revelation and dogma and under the authority of Christ thru his church in holy apostolic council

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is not one single verse in all of Scripture that defends trinitarianism. This is the principle reason you must blast so many verses, hoping one sticks. The verses provided undermine trinitarianism. If trinitarianism had an ounce of truth to it, there would not be one verse in all of Scripture that goes against it.

'Jack and Jill went up the hill' is a sentence that indicates 2 beings. Same with the verses provided. No amount of double talk or diversion will change the word of God that indicates many times that God and Jesus are 2 beings.

there are none so blind as those who refuse to see!

there are no verses that go against it, just peoples misunderstanding of Gods Word that makes them blind to teh truth.

 

[Wrangler]

there are no verses that go against it

There are over 10,000 verses that go against it. A singular pronoun does not refer to 3 beings.

The 1C does not refer to 3 beings. The sh'ma does not refer to 3 beings. Jesus says his father is the only true God @ John 17:3. That's good enough for me.

 

[theefaith]

There are over 10,000 verses that go against it. A singular pronoun does not refer to 3 beings.

The 1C does not refer to 3 beings. The sh'ma does not refer to 3 beings. Jesus says his father is the only true God @ John 17:3. That's good enough for me.

And the father and Christ are one
One divine nature
Not 3 Gods or 3 Lords but one God and one Lord
The holy trinity is a mystery
Just as Christ and his church are a mystery

 

[Wrangler]

And the father and Christ are one

Like we and God are one as Jesus tells us in John 17:11

One divine nature

No. On the same page. You read into Scripture what is not there.

 

[theefaith]

Like we and God are one as Jesus tells us in John 17:11



No. On the same page. You read into Scripture what is not there.

2 pet 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Thru grace

 

[Wrangler]

2 pet 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Thru grace

Yes, we are partakers of the divine nature, along with Jesus. Does not make us God - or him.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, we are partakers of the divine nature, along with Jesus. Does not make us God - or him.

Explain matt 24:31 His angels?????????

 

[Wrangler]

Explain matt 24:31 His angels?????????

This is what you do. You do not concede anything but jump from one thing to another AS IF always being on the attacks makes your doctrine valid. Please stick to the verses in the OP. Thanks.

 

[theefaith]

This is what you do. You do not concede anything but jump from one thing to another AS IF always being on the attacks makes your doctrine valid. Please stick to the verses in the OP. Thanks.

man excellent dodge!
No reply needed!

see Catholics reply
Protestants ignore and dodge

don’t I have the ability to ask a question?

 

[Wrangler]

don’t I have the ability to ask a question?

You don't seem to acknowledge any verses that undermine the trinity. Rather than concede the point, you just jump to something else. For instance, you never answered my simple question of whether or not Jesus died.

I added that God is eternal and unchanging. So, if you concede Jesus died, you must necessarily admit he is not God. In a desperate attempt to avoid this, you will undoubtedly invoke dualism - if you don't ignore it entirely.

 

[theefaith]

You don't seem to acknowledge any verses that undermine the trinity. Rather than concede the point, you just jump to something else. For instance, you never answered my simple question of whether or not Jesus died.

I added that God is eternal and unchanging. So, if you concede Jesus died, you must necessarily admit he is not God. In a desperate attempt to avoid this, you will undoubtedly invoke dualism - if you don't ignore it entirely.

Are you baptized?
If so how? What form?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There are over 10,000 verses that go against it. A singular pronoun does not refer to 3 beings.

The 1C does not refer to 3 beings. The sh'ma does not refer to 3 beings. Jesus says his father is the only true God @ John 17:3. That's good enough for me.

I would love to see this supposed 10,000 verses!

No but the word being called God- makes Him God. when John under the Inspiration of the Holy spirit calls Jesus equal to God- that makes Him God! When He is called Jehovah in Isaiah 42, that makes Him Jehovah.

When God in the OT is addresses with the plural nouns Adonai (lords) and Elohims (gods) that lets us know.

The shma when properly translated says this- "Hear O Israel, the Jehovah your Gods, is ONE Jehovah" It is not a mistake that God inspired "ehad" instead of "yachid" for one!

Jesus is inferior ot His Father in position in the godhead, but equal to the Father in nature in that they share the exact same "Godness".