Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

[Wrangler]

Being given immortality and incorruption does not demand a new body. If it was a new body there would be no resurrection.

Wait. Are you denying Jesus was resurrected in a glorified body that will not die?

 

[Wrangler]

I was more concerned witrh your false witness against a follower of Jesus.

I am a follower of Jesus and a rejecter of the trinity.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I will answer you r reply in parts.

I cannot speak for all trinitarians, but I know Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. that concerns His humanity. But before he became man The bible teaches this:

John 1:1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

First of all at John 1:1 the very first part of verse one says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. The last part of first one doesn't contradict the first part when it says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. Some other Bibles other than the KJV has John 1:1 translated differently and I'm not even thinking of the NW translation when I say that. John isn't saying that Jesus is God. At John 20:31 John said that everything he wrote was to prove that Jesus is the son of God.

At 1Timothy 3:16 where your translation says that it was God manifest in the flesh, most modern Bible translations say, "he was manifest in the flesh" that's because in the best known Bible manuscripts the word "he" is there not the word "God." So no this scripture isn't saying it was God that was manifest in the flesh but that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who was manifest in the flesh. Trinitarians removed the word "he" in this scripture and replaced it with the word "God."

At John 5:18 Jesus never said he was equal to God in this scripture nor did he imply he was by saying that God was his Father. This was bad reasoning on the Jews part by not only saying Jesus was making himself equal to God but also saying Jesus broke the Sabbath which Jesus wasn't guilty of that either. This scripture shows how erroneous the Jews reasoning was when it came to the scriptures.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This is another error of the Watchtower.

It is not the body, but the blood that is given for remission of sins. they have lied to you and twisted the Scripture to deceive you.

Here are the 20 Things the Blood of Christ Does

• It remits sins (Matt. 26:28 NKJV).
• It gives life to those who consume it (John 6:53).
• It causes us to dwell in Christ and Him in us (John 6:56).
• It is the means by which Jesus purchased the church (Acts 20:28).
• It is the means by which Jesus becomes our atonement through faith (Rom. 3:25).
• It justifies us and saves us from God’s wrath (Rom. 5:9).
• It redeems us (Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:18–19; Rev. 5:9).
• It brings those who were far away from God near to Him (Eph. 2:13).
• It grants us the forgiveness of sins (Col. 1:14).
• It brings peace and reconciliation with God (Col. 1:20).
• It has “obtained eternal redemption” for us (Heb. 9:12).
• It cleanses our consciences from “dead works” to serve the living God (Heb. 9:14).
• It is the means by which we enter the Most Holy Place with boldness (Heb. 10:19 NIV).
• It “speaks a better word than the blood of Abel” (Heb. 12:24 NIV).
• It sanctifies us (Heb. 13:12).
• It makes us complete for “every good work” (Heb. 13:20–21 NKJV).
• It “cleanses us from all sin” (1 John 1:7).
• It bears witness in the earth along with the Spirit and the water (1 John 5:8 KJV).
• It is the means by which Jesus washes us (Rev. 1:5; 7:14 KJV).
• It is the means by which we overcome the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10–11).

Life is in the blood and the life that Jesus sacrificed was a human life. Jesus didn't take that human life back he was resurrected a life giving spirit, Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body not a human body.

 

[Wrangler]

ohn isn't saying that Jesus is God. At John 20:31 John said that everything he wrote was to prove that Jesus is the son of God.

It's such an outstanding point! I predict silence.

 

[Wrangler]

At 1Timothy 3:16 where your translation says that it was God manifest in the flesh, most modern Bible translations say, "he was manifest in the flesh" that's because in the best known Bible manuscripts the word "he" is there not the word "God." So no this scripture isn't saying it was God that was manifest in the flesh but that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who was manifest in the flesh. Trinitarians removed the word "he" in this scripture and replaced it with the word "God."

Another outstanding point! I predict silence.

Truth that does not support their doctrine cannot be true. Doctrine before truth.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Being given immortality and incorruption does not demand a new body. If it was a new body there would be no resurrection. YOu deny the simle word resurrection which means a standing again. In order for something to stand agaqin it has to be laid down prior. Jesus said He would rise bodily from the dead.

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


Sorry Barney but Arius, Origen and the Watchtower got it all wrong! Believe the word of God as written instead of the slick commentaries of those who oppose their own selves.

You can argue all you want but the fact that Jesus was resurrected with a immortal and incorruptible body when he was resurrected beans he wasn't resurrected with the exact same body. As I said he wasn't a immortal incorruptible human before he died and he wasn't resurrected as a mortal corruptible human when he was resurrected, so he had a different body, you can argue all you want but that's not going to change

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Hi
Emily:

Well sorry but the bible is clear:

Acts 4:12
King James Version

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

If they are trusting in a combo of faith in Jesus and works as Muslims, JW';s Mormons and others do- they are not saved. We have to trust in the death and resurrection of jesus as the sole means of our salvation.

there are no righteous gentiles. romans 3 tells us there are none righteous outside of jesus.

What I'm saying @Roland Nolette
Is when Muslims receive Jesus, this changes how they teach Islam.

Jesus fulfills all laws as Lord of lords
Or central Authority of Law over all laws.

Like the Constitutional laws are central
and all State laws still must abide by it.

They still keep their local language for their local laws.

The JW who receive Jesus and become Christian: some may leave but others stay to help teach fellow JW to receive Jesus. They use that system to communicate with others.

So yes this does change how these groups teach.

While these groups may still keep their language and just change the way they teach, using that language to reach that audience in terms they can understand.

I know a Muslim Christian who explained things to his Muslim Parents using their Muslim teachings. They had to obey because he gave the rebuke by his faith in God through Christ. But keeps his Muslim language in order to communicate with his family.

He totally believes in Jesus as God, and his parents objected thinking this was blasphemous.

His faith added to his Muslim laws and fulfills the teaching that Muslims must respect the Jewish Torah, Christian Scriptures and Muslim Quran.

If there is dispute, using Matthew 18:15-20 and for Muslims Sura 109 can resolve any conflict in Christ.

My friend with Muslim parents explained to them using Sura 109 so they accepted and agreed to be at peace with his beliefs about God and Jesus.

He still obeys and doesn't violate the standards they have as Muslims which Jesus Authority governs as well.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Lack of discernment, brother. Jesus is our Lord but not The LORD God. The Bible says God selected Jesus to judge the world. Jesus admitted he was given all authority. Discern.

And I do not argue on ething you said. I know Jesus is not God the Father- He is God the Son as the many verses I posted showed you. I do discern and look at all the bible, not just the select passages that prove a false doctrine like unitarian minded people do.

Your humility is showing. The threat title says Acts & the trinity. The OP says Acts & the trinity. I started this thread but somehow your telling me what this thread is about.

Well I wasn't the one who was the first to leave the book of acts. Tell you what I will start a thread on the book of Esther and want you alone to prove yahweh is God just from the book of Esther. If you can you are better than all men of God who have gone on before you! Otherwise you are simply straining at a gnat.

Discernment. Firstborns are always only children until other children come along. We are all sons and daughters of God. Created, one and all, even Jesus.

but we did not preexist our existence as God as Jesus did as the bible clearly and unambiguously shows! JOhn 1:1
Genesis 1:1, Gen. 1:26, Is. 44:6, 1 tim. 3:16, Phhil 2:6-10. why do you keep ignoring these scriptures?????

Well I leave tomorrow for a week to visit 2 of my children and 6 grandkids. If I do not get back here today, we can continue this heated discussion when I return.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am a follower of Jesus and a rejecter of the trinity.

and yet you do not even accept what is written about the one you claim to follow. Who was jesus before He became the only begotten of God at His conception in Marys' womb?

who is Jesus as Paul declared in 1 Tim. 3:16 and Phil . 2 6-10? and John 1:1?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wait. Are you denying Jesus was resurrected in a glorified body that will not die?

Reread my statement with your eyes and moind open this time and you will not need ask such a benighted question.

 

[teamventure]

This thread is about Acts.

How the trinitarians deliberately misinterpret John 1 has been delved into dozens of times already. HINT: John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it.

No they don't, but it's ironic because you deliberately misinterpret acts.

 

[Wrangler]

No they don't, but it's ironic because you deliberately misinterpret acts.

Wow! Trinitarians deliberately misinterpret unitarian text of the entire Bible, written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this . Wow. Just wow!

When acts says God raised Jesus from the dead and selected him to judge the world, just how am I misinterpreting it?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

First of all at John 1:1 the very first part of verse one says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. The last part of first one doesn't contradict the first part when it says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. Some other Bibles other than the KJV has John 1:1 translated differently and I'm not even thinking of the NW translation when I say that. John isn't saying that Jesus is God. At John 20:31 John said that everything he wrote was to prove that Jesus is the son of God.

At 1Timothy 3:16 where your translation says that it was God manifest in the flesh, most modern Bible translations say, "he was manifest in the flesh" that's because in the best known Bible manuscripts the word "he" is there not the word "God." So no this scripture isn't saying it was God that was manifest in the flesh but that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who was manifest in the flesh. Trinitarians removed the word "he" in this scripture and replaced it with the word "God."

At John 5:18 Jesus never said he was equal to God in this scripture nor did he imply he was by saying that God was his Father. This was bad reasoning on the Jews part by not only saying Jesus was making himself equal to God but also saying Jesus broke the Sabbath which Jesus wasn't guilty of that either. This scripture shows how erroneous the Jews reasoning was when it came to the scriptures.

John 1: 1 describes who the word was- and the Word was God! John wasn't saying Jesus was His Father, but that Jesus was equally divine as His Father. the fact Jesus made everything goes nicely with Gen. 1:26 when "Elohim" (plural) says let US make man in our image and our likeness! Manis not made in the image of God and angel!

John 5:18 is not the pharisees commenting on Jesus but the Apostle John declaring that by Jesus saying God was His Father He was equal with God!

1 tim. 3:16? Paul could have easily written Only son if He was inspired to. but he wrote this:

3:16 καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ Notice the ninth word? theos! God!

Now the morphological greek new testament produced by Westcott and hort writes it this way:
3:16 καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ

the ninth word being "os" which is who, not he! Westcott and Hort created their own greek text and is vastly inferior to the manuscript evidence of the TR. Most Modern translations are spun off from this abomination (the first being the revised standard or as I like to call it the revised stranded) of which the NWT borrows heavily from.

and Phil 2:6-10 : your NWT understanding of this verse is so twisted as to be tragically sad. It is a total twisitng of the greek and rules of grammar to make that passagfe says what it does to the Watchtower.

Well I am off on vacation for a week. We can take this up when I return, or not.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Life is in the blood and the life that Jesus sacrificed was a human life. Jesus didn't take that human life back he was resurrected a life giving spirit, Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body not a human body.

Yes it was HIs blood that took away sin! You deny the very word resurrection.
Jesus was resurrected with teh body that He went ot eh grave with. Otherwise He could not be risen AGAIN as the word demands!

John 2:
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

why do you reject Gods Word to accept the word of a man made organization??????????????????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What I'm saying @Roland Nolette
Is when Muslims receive Jesus, this changes how they teach Islam.

Jesus fulfills all laws as Lord of lords
Or central Authority of Law over all laws.

Like the Constitutional laws are central
and all State laws still must abide by it.

They still keep their local language for their local laws.

The JW who receive Jesus and become Christian: some may leave but others stay to help teach fellow JW to receive Jesus. They use that system to communicate with others.

So yes this does change how these groups teach.

While these groups may still keep their language and just change the way they teach, using that language to reach that audience in terms they can understand.

I know a Muslim Christian who explained things to his Muslim Parents using their Muslim teachings. They had to obey because he gave the rebuke by his faith in God through Christ. But keeps his Muslim language in order to communicate with his family.

He totally believes in Jesus as God, and his parents objected thinking this was blasphemous.

His faith added to his Muslim laws and fulfills the teaching that Muslims must respect the Jewish Torah, Christian Scriptures and Muslim Quran.

If there is dispute, using Matthew 18:15-20 and for Muslims Sura 109 can resolve any conflict in Christ.

My friend with Muslim parents explained to them using Sura 109 so they accepted and agreed to be at peace with his beliefs about God and Jesus.

He still obeys and doesn't violate the standards they have as Muslims which Jesus Authority governs as well.

Your argument is very convoluted. A Muslim could nat stay in Islam as a christian, it denies Christ as who He is and what He accomplished at Calvary. He may stay with His parents and such,

a Jw who believes Jesus rose in the body He died in will eventually have to leave or be disfellowshipped or hide his belief.

Paul still accepted Jewish law, but was not bound by it as a believer. And as gentiles converted to teh faith He told them they did not have to obey th e MOsaic Laws of which the ten commandments are part.

I commend people who wish to stay where they are at to try to rescue others, but eventually the conflict will grow so great they will have to either be killed or leave.

As Paul said all who will live godly in Christ will suffer persecution, and that is especially true of those who convert from non Christian religions.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wow! Trinitarians deliberately misinterpret unitarian text of the entire Bible, written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this . Wow. Just wow!

When acts says God raised Jesus from the dead and selected him to judge the world, just how am I misinterpreting it?

Now compare it with this verse:

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

or with this verse:

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Bible says the Father raised Jesus from the dead.
The Bible says Jesus raised HImself from the dead
teh bible says the Spirit raised jesus from the dead
The bible say8s God raised jesus from the dead.

all true of each person involved in raising Jesus from the dead!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You can argue all you want but the fact that Jesus was resurrected with a immortal and incorruptible body when he was resurrected beans he wasn't resurrected with the exact same body. As I said he wasn't a immortal incorruptible human before he died and he wasn't resurrected as a mortal corruptible human when he was resurrected, so he had a different body, you can argue all you want but that's not going to change

It was teh body He died in , just raised immortal and incorruptible. Just like when you are raised from the dead immortal and incorruptible. same body, just death and corruption caused from sin removed!

Yo can come up with all philosophical arguments you wish, but the bible says jesus rose in teh body He died with. You can accept Gods Word or the words of a man made organization.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Life is in the blood and the life that Jesus sacrificed was a human life. Jesus didn't take that human life back he was resurrected a life giving spirit, Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body not a human body.

Here some bible verses that sahow it was the blood and not the body needed for atonement. I am sure you will listen to the watchtower instead but I will give you the word of God without slick commentary like the WT does.

Hebrews 9:22 ESV /
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Leviticus 17:11 ESV /
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

Revelation 5:9 ESV /
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,

Hebrews 9:14 ESV /
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Hebrews 9:12 ESV /
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Romans 3:25 ESV /
Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Revelation 12:11 ESV /
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

Hebrews 13:20 ESV /
Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant,

Hebrews 10:29 ESV /
How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 9:11-12 ESV /
But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Not once do you see body and blood for forgiveness. Nowhere in the bible does it say that!

When the bible does say Jesus gave up His body, it also says that He would not allow His holy one to see corruption.
but instead of accepting tehat fact along with the word resurrection (which means to stand AGAIN) and that Jesus said He would raise His body in three days- corrupt men with minds darkened by the devil have spun homemade tales of God destroying jesus body so that is why the tomb was empty and He became an invisible spirit creature that had to manufacture bodies to prove he wasn't dead (though if His body didn't rise along with WT teaching that man has no immortal soul- Jesus satyed dead)

Listent o god and not man made organizations.

 

[Wrangler]

John 1: 1 describes who the word was- and the Word was God! John wasn't saying Jesus was His Father, but that Jesus was equally divine as His Father.

What a stretch! Perhaps you've been so indoctrinated that you cannot even separate or question the almighty God is perfectly capable of expressing words without relying on his Son; that the Word of God is an attribute of God and not a person at all.

Also, you completely ignore how John 20:31 squares with your anti-Scriptural assertion. See the Sh'ma.