Sects=Work of the flesh

[JoJoRoss]

[SIZE=12pt]Gal 5:19-21-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]19 Now apparent are the works of the flesh, WHICH ARE adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness,
20 idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, SECTS
21 envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]2 Corinthians 12:20[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]-[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]20 For I fear, lest somehow, on coming, I may not be finding you such as I want, and I may be found by you such as you do not want; lest somehow there be strife, jealousy, fury, FACTIONS, vilifications, whisperings, puffing up, turbulences.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Seems to me God never wanted the body of Christ in SECTS/FACTIONS…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Gods Peace,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

 

[RANDOR]

Ya lost me there

 

[JoJoRoss]

Here is a joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.


Kind of sad but true. SECTS are Works of the Flesh (Gal 5:19-21).


Gods Peace,
JoJo

 

[DPMartin]

Here is a joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.


Kind of sad but true. SECTS are Works of the Flesh (Gal 5:19-21).


Gods Peace,
JoJo

What? Are you saying we shouldn’t do that? Oops, I’ll have to remember that next time

Its true that it is the desire of the Lord that we be of one mind. But what mind is that? Shouldn’t it be the mind of Christ? Consider, in the Kingdom of God who shall disagree with the Lord Jesus Christ and survive or at the least remain in the Kingdom of God? We should understand that Jesus is correct in all things and we are not. Jesus is the agreement that all who follow agree to, and in Him we are in agreement with not only with each other but with the Almighty Himself.

In other words we shouldn’t seek to be in agreement with each other, we should seek to be in agreement with Christ. Because then we are in agreement.

 

[clark thompson]

We should work together for the work of Christ this does not mean we will agree about everything but means we should agree to serve Christ.

 

[nothead]

What? Are you saying we shouldn’t do that? Oops, I’ll have to remember that next time

Its true that it is the desire of the Lord that we be of one mind. But what mind is that? Shouldn’t it be the mind of Christ? Consider, in the Kingdom of God who shall disagree with the Lord Jesus Christ and survive or at the least remain in the Kingdom of God? We should understand that Jesus is correct in all things and we are not. Jesus is the agreement that all who follow agree to, and in Him we are in agreement with not only with each other but with the Almighty Himself.

In other words we shouldn’t seek to be in agreement with each other, we should seek to be in agreement with Christ. Because then we are in agreement.

In other words, consider the sola scriptura to be the main body of revelation of this age. However two things in mainline Christianity cannot be since they are not in the Bible.

Trinity

The Deity of Jesus. HIGHEST deity that is.

 

[DPMartin]

We should work together for the work of Christ this does not mean we will agree about everything but means we should agree to serve Christ.

I get your point but it seems this really depends on what "service" to Christ is. I mean, the Word of God is served by all of creation by virtue of the fulfillment thereof. That which let there be light, served the fulfillment of God’s Word. And that which didn’t let there be light was separated from the light, and that also serves God’s purposes.

In other words, consider the sola scriptura to be the main body of revelation of this age. However two things in mainline Christianity cannot be since they are not in the Bible.

Trinity

The Deity of Jesus. HIGHEST deity that is.

Na, sorry buddy your are incorrect there, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as far as scripture, goes back at least as far as Abraham, (father), Isaac (the chosen son that was offered) and Jacob (renamed Israel and all are referred to by the Lord their God as the Children of Israel, hence like the Holy Spirit, born thereof, and are now Children of God)
“Trinity” is a Catholic theology, and theologies are of men, and so eventually divide more believers then unite.

Scripture does say that Jesus is the Word of God
John:1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And it also says
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

and it also says
Mk:16:19: So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Lk:22:69: Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
So I don’t see how what you have stated, on trinity and deity can be even remotely correct. Granted the Father is not of the Son no more then you are of your own words. Just as your words are of you so is the Son of the Father of which one is not without the other. And needless to say your words that originate from you come from where you are present, don’t they? If so one says you said something and you didn’t then it didn’t come into the world from where you are present.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

[SIZE=12pt]Gal 5:19-21-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]19 Now apparent are the works of the flesh, WHICH ARE adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness,
20 idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, SECTS
21 envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]2 Corinthians 12:20[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]-[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]20 For I fear, lest somehow, on coming, I may not be finding you such as I want, and I may be found by you such as you do not want; lest somehow there be strife, jealousy, fury, FACTIONS, vilifications, whisperings, puffing up, turbulences.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Seems to me God never wanted the body of Christ in SECTS/FACTIONS…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Gods Peace,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

Other versions use the words discord and dissentions. None of it applies to denominationalism without seriously abusing scripture. Christian unity is a concept that was given birth when Jesus prayed to the Father that Christians would be one just as He and the Father are one. But even among the apostles that heard this prayer there were disputes and contentions. And certainly when Paul stood up to Peter to rebuke him, there was division, but not the kind that undermines Christian unity.

We Christians serve a holy God, have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of us, and rejoice in a common baptism, being the one and singular body of Christ. But we are besotted by human weakness, blindnesses, and the prevalence of self interest. In 1054, the first great split happened between the synods of Rome and Constantinople. 500 years later, the Protestant Reformation debuted, breaking communion with all synods Catholic and Orthodox. Soon after, King Henry of England broke away from the Catholic Church over a dispute involving the divorce of his wife. He started a state sponsored church and the Anglicans were the first to call themselves Protestant. Their persecution of Catholics in Ireland and Puritans caused another split in which the persecuted sought refute in the New World to practice their faith as they believed. And further divisions ensued to the point we have 33,000 Christian denominations today.

None of this is in harmony with what Jesus prayed for, but God works even through our mistakes to His glory and we Christians continue to tergiversate between unity and discord, the former when we're being governed by the Holy Spirit, the latter when we let our flesh reign unsubjegated. It's a problem that won't go away any time in this life until the Lord Jesus Christ returns and restores all things into ceaseless and unbroken submission to Him, to his praise and glory.

Speed the day!

 

[nothead]

Na, sorry buddy your are incorrect there, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as far as scripture, goes back at least as far as Abraham, (father), Isaac (the chosen son that was offered) and Jacob (renamed Israel and all are referred to by the Lord their God as the Children of Israel, hence like the Holy Spirit, born thereof, and are now Children of God)

Any man can find types and shadows of any theory under the sun in the Bible if he tries hard enough. Say you like orgies. Think about it. Find them, they are there.

Golden Calf, upper room. Like I said, types and shadows can reflect anything under the sun.

“Trinity” is a Catholic theology, and theologies are of men, and so eventually divide more believers then unite.

Trinity came soon after the Nicean Council which made Jesus the same OUSIA as the Father.

Scripture does say that Jesus is the Word of God
John:1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And it also says
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Not holistically. When the Word was "light" it was and is not "Jesus."

and it also says
Mk:16:19: So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Lk:22:69: Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

"Right hand of," in any culture including the Jewish culture means in subordinate position to. Even if this position in context is an EXALTED one. For say for instance, the right and left hands of Jesus....they are Gods also, the position of power James and John's mother asks Jesus for?

Whoo hoo. She was a God-maker all righty.

So I don’t see how what you have stated, on trinity and deity can be even remotely correct. Granted the Father is not of the Son no more then you are of your own words. Just as your words are of you so is the Son of the Father of which one is not without the other. And needless to say your words that originate from you come from where you are present, don’t they? If so one says you said something and you didn’t then it didn’t come into the world from where you are present.

You are expounding upon how Jesus is the Word of God? And you make what point?

I already have my own terp for Jn 1. How is your incomprehensible theory regarding better than my simple and true one?

In the beginning was the Word.

The Word was thought of, then at, to, toward and face-to-face with God as a reflection of His Will. God says for instance "light" and there it was. DABAR thirteen times and it was manifest.

And in v. 14 He says "Jesus" and there he is. Whoo hoo. Nothead has the true version of the Prologue.

 

[JoJoRoss]

In other words we shouldn’t seek to be in agreement with each other, we should seek to be in agreement with Christ. Because then we are in agreement.

Other versions use the words discord and dissentions. None of it applies to denominationalism without seriously abusing scripture. Christian unity is a concept that was given birth when Jesus prayed to the Father that Christians would be one just as He and the Father are one. But even among the apostles that heard this prayer there were disputes and contentions. And certainly when Paul stood up to Peter to rebuke him, there was division, but not the kind that undermines Christian unity.

We Christians serve a holy God, have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of us, and rejoice in a common baptism, being the one and singular body of Christ. But we are besotted by human weakness, blindnesses, and the prevalence of self interest. In 1054, the first great split happened between the synods of Rome and Constantinople. 500 years later, the Protestant Reformation debuted, breaking communion with all synods Catholic and Orthodox. Soon after, King Henry of England broke away from the Catholic Church over a dispute involving the divorce of his wife. He started a state sponsored church and the Anglicans were the first to call themselves Protestant. Their persecution of Catholics in Ireland and Puritans caused another split in which the persecuted sought refute in the New World to practice their faith as they believed. And further divisions ensued to the point we have 33,000 Christian denominations today.

None of this is in harmony with what Jesus prayed for, but God works even through our mistakes to His glory and we Christians continue to tergiversate between unity and discord, the former when we're being governed by the Holy Spirit, the latter when we let our flesh reign unsubjegated. It's a problem that won't go away any time in this life until the Lord Jesus Christ returns and restores all things into ceaseless and unbroken submission to Him, to his praise and glory.

Speed the day!

[SIZE=12pt]Yes DPMartin and The Vale of Tears, I am right there with you.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The 33,000 SECTS of Christendom is not what God wanted according to His Word and we SHOULD ALL seek to be in agreement with Christ. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]That is why I can’t be part of one church of the sects of Christendom. They ALL got a lil something right and they ALL got a lil something wrong. In the end it is all about our hearts and how we used those hearts for the agape God of the universe. God is the only one who knows our hearts, not men:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Luke 16:15: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Gods Peace,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

In other words, consider the sola scriptura to be the main body of revelation of this age. However two things in mainline Christianity cannot be since they are not in the Bible.

Trinity

The Deity of Jesus. HIGHEST deity that is.

[SIZE=12pt]Hey Not,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I would add to this list:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Free Will[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Eternal “Hell”[/SIZE]

 

[DPMartin]

nothead

No offence but, is there some reason why in your mind that I should actually care that you don’t believe what I believe?
Jesus says there is the Father, and He is the Son and there is the Holy Spirit that He says one must be born of. And are God, of God and are One, as in One is not without the others. I don’t have to prove it to you, though if you read scripture enough in that you believe the scripture is true, then you will see it if you have eyes to see. The Truth that is of God is revealed, not deduced in theories of men who as you say do, seek scripture to support their theories or theology or what they think.
It’s a mystery or secret to those who don’t believe, because it doesn’t fit their own theories or theology or philosophy or supposed logical views, which is the reason they can't see. The evidence just isn’t there to satisfy what men think, or think ought to be. Where as the true believer presumes that the Word of God is the Rock and Foundation that all is based on.

And as far as i can see, you haven't taking any position on who you say He is, and why.

 

[nothead]

[SIZE=12pt]Hey Not,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I would add to this list:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Free Will[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Eternal “Hell”[/SIZE]

For once we will agree. I am not sure however if you realize why the NT has hell there at all...

...in order to inspire the fear of God, is all...the beginning of wisdom and HUMBLENESS which is what you have been trying to get me to be...

....I do fear God, maybe not as much as I should...but I don't not fear God as much as Reformed do not fear God. And you are Reformed in your noggin, sir.

 

[JoJoRoss]

For once we will agree. I am not sure however if you realize why the NT has hell there at all...

...in order to inspire the fear of God, is all...the beginning of wisdom and HUMBLENESS which is what you have been trying to get me to be...

....I do fear God, maybe not as much as I should...but I don't not fear God as much as Reformed do not fear God. And you are Reformed in your noggin, sir.

Yes when we first come to God and His truth, it is fear:

Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

But we don't stay in fear. We proceed to the TRUE character of God-LOVE:

1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

and...

1 John 4:18-There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

GOD IS LOVE! That is what it's all about Nothead.


Gods Peace,
JoJo

 

[nothead]

nothead

No offence but, is there some reason why in your mind that I should actually care that you don’t believe what I believe?

I didn't know we had a dialogue. Welcome though. I have no idear what you believe. And had not cared before. Sorry for the slight.

Jesus says there is the Father, and He is the Son and there is the Holy Spirit that He says one must be born of. And are God, of God and are One, as in One is not without the others. I don’t have to prove it to you, though if you read scripture enough in that you believe the scripture is true, then you will see it if you have eyes to see. The Truth that is of God is revealed, not deduced in theories of men who as you say do, seek scripture to support their theories or theology or what they think.

Rather the peshat Law (plainly said) was that God is One and there is no other one. Not a "one" of unity rather a "one" of numerical uniqueness. Alone, as the unit of one is. This is the basis of Judaic comprehension, the foundation upon which all other premises are built. About God and about what God wants us to know.

It’s a mystery or secret to those who don’t believe, because it doesn’t fit their own theories or theology or philosophy or supposed logical views, which is the reason they can't see. The evidence just isn’t there to satisfy what men think, or think ought to be.

It wasn't a mystery at all, just the common view of all trinitarians. What you momma and poppa tole you once upon a time. Or your pastor or Sunday School marm.

Where as the true believer presumes that the Word of God is the Rock and Foundation that all is based on.
And as far as i can see, you haven't taking any position on who you say He is, and why.

Jesus is 'elohim' above the angels who are also 'elohim' maybe and probably of not the same kind. Jesus is not YHWH Elohim who is of God-kind and the only one who is.

Jesus is UNDER YWHW Elohim and OVER the angels/elohim. That is my position.