25 reasons why you should abandon Premillennialism

[WPM]

First of all it is not mine. It is God's Word. But you seem ok with all the twist and turns you add to God's Word. You cannot even prove your objection.

The 6th Seal reads the same as the Olivet Discourse, and 2 Peter 3. They may as well be the 2nd and 3rd versions of the Olivet Discourse along with Matthew and Mark.

You do not even understand the format of Revelation. You refuse to interpret Scripture with Scripture. You have zero corroboration for your speculations. Not a good foundation!!!

 

[Timtofly]

You do not even understand the format of Revelation. You refuse to interpret Scripture with Scripture. You have zero corroboration for your speculations. Not a good foundation!!!

All false accusations.

All you offer is imaginary false accusations.

I reject human imagination as the basis of John's authorship style.

You are the one basing your interpretation on the sands of human imagination.

You have yet to address any Scripture I have presented.

You keep reverting back to your own human imagination.

 

[WPM]

First of all it is not mine. It is God's Word. But you seem ok with all the twist and turns you add to God's Word. You cannot even prove your objection.

The 6th Seal reads the same as the Olivet Discourse, and 2 Peter 3. They may as well be the 2nd and 3rd versions of the Olivet Discourse along with Matthew and Mark.

The sixth seal is the end of the world. It sees the change from time to eternity. It totally demolishes the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

This text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

 

[Keraz]

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

Your idea of the Sixth Seal when Jesus Returns, simply does not agree with the Prophesies which describe the glorious Return.
When Jesus Returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He will not destroy what He comes to reign over.

Your AMill idea is false and is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20 and many other scriptures.

 

[WPM]

Your idea of the Sixth Seal when Jesus Returns, simply does not agree with the Prophesies which describe the glorious Return.
When Jesus Returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He will not destroy what He comes to reign over.

Your AMill idea is false and is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20 and many other scriptures.

You avoided the evidence and just express your private opinion. I refer you back to the biblical evidence.

 

[Timtofly]

The sixth seal is the end of the world. It sees the change from time to eternity. It totally demolishes the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

Only in your private interpretation of human imagination called recapitulation. Those people hiding out still will go through the 7 Trumpets, the 7 Thunders, 42 months of Satan's kingdom and then the 7 vials before ending up at the battle of Armageddon.


If the 6th Seal is the end, why is there a 7th Seal that introduces the next 7 angels?

Contrary to your inconsistent opinion, the 7th Seal does not reset time and go back to the first century.

Obviously the Second Coming is climactic for the church. They are raptured. Even glorified, when they put on the robe of white.


Do they then wait a little while for the last 2 millennia to begin again as your recap series requires?

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

If that is your climactic end, how does that little season fit into your twinkling of an eye?

Is not the church glorified at the Second Coming? Do you not put on a robe of white? Do you not then wait a little season while the rest of humanity are dealt with, during the Trumpets, Thunders, and Vials? How can there be a little season, after you have dictated to God, "that was the end"?

This text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

No, the obvious answer is not your opinion, nor your own theological agenda.

The answer is given in Revelation 16:15 as a parenthetical warning:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

 

[WPM]

Only in your private interpretation of human imagination called recapitulation. Those people hiding out still will go through the 7 Trumpets, the 7 Thunders, 42 months of Satan's kingdom and then the 7 vials before ending up at the battle of Armageddon.


If the 6th Seal is the end, why is there a 7th Seal that introduces the next 7 angels?

Contrary to your inconsistent opinion, the 7th Seal does not reset time and go back to the first century.

Obviously the Second Coming is climactic for the church. They are raptured. Even glorified, when they put on the robe of white.


Do they then wait a little while for the last 2 millennia to begin again as your recap series requires?

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

If that is your climactic end, how does that little season fit into your twinkling of an eye?

Is not the church glorified at the Second Coming? Do you not put on a robe of white? Do you not then wait a little season while the rest of humanity are dealt with, during the Trumpets, Thunders, and Vials? How can there be a little season, after you have dictated to God, "that was the end"?




No, the obvious answer is not your opinion, nor your own theological agenda.

The answer is given in Revelation 16:15 as a parenthetical warning:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

Scripture repeatedly presents recaps in chapters and books to reinforce truths and give us a better perspective. Why do we keep having the same detail repeated in Revelation? Because it describes events from different camera views. This is normal in Scripture.

As you dive into the book of Revelation it is important to recognize that it is not chronological. It is a series of recaps. It is a number of repetitions describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period. It presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that. Sinclair Ferguson describes the apocalypse as: “Recapitulatory and progressive parallelism.” Each recapitulation finishes with the gathering of the wicked together to battle against the righteous, followed by the glorious climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[WPM]

Only in your private interpretation of human imagination called recapitulation. Those people hiding out still will go through the 7 Trumpets, the 7 Thunders, 42 months of Satan's kingdom and then the 7 vials before ending up at the battle of Armageddon.


If the 6th Seal is the end, why is there a 7th Seal that introduces the next 7 angels?

Contrary to your inconsistent opinion, the 7th Seal does not reset time and go back to the first century.

Obviously the Second Coming is climactic for the church. They are raptured. Even glorified, when they put on the robe of white.


Do they then wait a little while for the last 2 millennia to begin again as your recap series requires?

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

If that is your climactic end, how does that little season fit into your twinkling of an eye?

Is not the church glorified at the Second Coming? Do you not put on a robe of white? Do you not then wait a little season while the rest of humanity are dealt with, during the Trumpets, Thunders, and Vials? How can there be a little season, after you have dictated to God, "that was the end"?




No, the obvious answer is not your opinion, nor your own theological agenda.

The answer is given in Revelation 16:15 as a parenthetical warning:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

None escape!!! You cannot deny that.

 

[WPM]

Only in your private interpretation of human imagination called recapitulation. Those people hiding out still will go through the 7 Trumpets, the 7 Thunders, 42 months of Satan's kingdom and then the 7 vials before ending up at the battle of Armageddon.


If the 6th Seal is the end, why is there a 7th Seal that introduces the next 7 angels?

Contrary to your inconsistent opinion, the 7th Seal does not reset time and go back to the first century.

Obviously the Second Coming is climactic for the church. They are raptured. Even glorified, when they put on the robe of white.


Do they then wait a little while for the last 2 millennia to begin again as your recap series requires?

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

If that is your climactic end, how does that little season fit into your twinkling of an eye?

Is not the church glorified at the Second Coming? Do you not put on a robe of white? Do you not then wait a little season while the rest of humanity are dealt with, during the Trumpets, Thunders, and Vials? How can there be a little season, after you have dictated to God, "that was the end"?




No, the obvious answer is not your opinion, nor your own theological agenda.

The answer is given in Revelation 16:15 as a parenthetical warning:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

Scripture repeatedly presents recaps in chapters and books to reinforce truths and give us a better perspective. Why do we keep having the same detail repeated in Revelation? Because it describes events from different camera views. This is normal in Scripture.

As you dive into the book of Revelation it is important to recognize that it is not chronological. It is a series of recaps. It is a number of repetitions describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period. It presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that. Sinclair Ferguson describes the apocalypse as: “Recapitulatory and progressive parallelism.” Each recapitulation finishes with the gathering of the wicked together to battle against the righteous, followed by the glorious climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

Scripture repeatedly presents recaps in chapters and books to reinforce truths and give us a better perspective. Why do we keep having the same detail repeated in Revelation? Because it describes events from different camera views. This is normal in Scripture.

As you dive into the book of Revelation it is important to recognize that it is not chronological. It is a series of recaps. It is a number of repetitions describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period. It presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that. Sinclair Ferguson describes the apocalypse as: “Recapitulatory and progressive parallelism.” Each recapitulation finishes with the gathering of the wicked together to battle against the righteous, followed by the glorious climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Your private interpretation forces recap into the text, when the text clearly proves you wrong. How can 25% of humanity die at the same time as 33%. Then your last recap is 100% dead. Did your first 2 recaps fall short?

 

[WPM]

Your private interpretation forces recap into the text, when the text clearly proves you wrong. How can 25% of humanity die at the same time as 33%. Then your last recap is 100% dead. Did your first 2 recaps fall short?

Get to the end of each recap (the 6th or 7th phase of it) and your will see the climactic detail and the wholesale destruction.

 

[WPM]

Noah was left on the earth. Lot was still alive after Sodom. You don't have any corroboration that not a single human is left on the earth. Those verses corroborate that God still has plans for redeemed humans on the earth after the Second Coming.

You agree that the wicked are all destroyed. But then you insert your opinion that not a single human can be found on the earth. Your verses corroborate that redeemed humans can be found on the earth during the Day of the Lord after the total destruction of the wicked.

The redeemed survive the baptism of fire because they walk through the fire like the three Hebrews in the fiery furnace. Satan's Babylonian empire cannot destroy those redeemed from the earth.



The answer is in Revelation 16:15

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

There is one difference between Noah and Lot, and those redeemed after the Second Coming. Those after the Second Coming are changed out of their dead corruptible flesh. Noah and Lot still had to deal with their dead corruptible flesh. That flesh is destroyed and removed along with sin at the Second Coming. So, many will be saved and inherit the earth, despite your objections to the future Day of the Lord.

Once again the 6th Seal is not the end of the world. Neither is the 7th Seal. Neither are the first 6 Trumpets that happen after the 7th Seal is opened. The 144k are still on the earth and will be for a while after the 6th Seal. Those stars in the 6th Seal are the angels coming to earth to gather the final harvest. Matthew 13 and Matthew 25. The term star and angel are used interchangeably throughout the book of Revelation.

In fact Zechariah 14 is describing the same event as the 6th Seal. You know, the chapter you explain away as geographically changing the earth in the first century?



I agree, and so is Zechariah 14. When those angels leave their post as the stars and are on the earth, there will not be any star light for a while. Just think how overpopulated the earth will be with trillions of stars transporting humans around, because obviously all human technology and works were all burned up physically and literally.

You preach everything and every being is gone. But do you consider that John states they are all on the earth when the 7th Seal is opened, and there is literal silence in heaven for half an hour? And then the Trumpets start sounding and chaos erupts on the earth over and over for more than just a day.

Many posters deny those pre-trib rapture proclaimers their escape clause. You teach the end happens before the 7th Seal is even opened, and forget the 7 Trumpets. You have this weird time travel interpretation, that the Trumpets take us back to the first century.

1. Who are Gog and Magog?
2. Are they believers or unbelievers?
3. Are they corruptible or incorruptible?
4. Where do they come from if all the wicked are destroyed when Jesus comes and all the righteous are glorified?

They have plainly grown during the millennium to a sizable number of billions as the sand of the sea.

 

[Timtofly]

1. Who are Gog and Magog?
2. Are they believers or unbelievers?
3. Are they corruptible or incorruptible?
4. Where do they come from if all the wicked are destroyed when Jesus comes and all the righteous are glorified?

They have plainly grown during the millennium to a sizable number of billions as the sand of the sea.

Why would it take the entire 1,000 years, when the last two generations would be enough people? Do you not understand how procreation works? It is like a pyramid, the base is the last couple of generations.

 

[WPM]

Why would it take the entire 1,000 years, when the last two generations would be enough people? Do you not understand how procreation works? It is like a pyramid, the base is the last couple of generations.

More avoidance. You have to!

 

[Timtofly]

More avoidance. You have to!

Yep, avoiding Satan's deception at all cost.

Seems you have been hooked and reeled into the deception that the Truth of God's Word should be exchanged for a lie.

You have given your 25 reasons to abandon God's Word, placing the blame on other people. Not sure why pointing out your lack of understanding is avoiding this deception that has taken over your mind, though.

 

[WPM]

Yep, avoiding Satan's deception at all cost.

Seems you have been hooked and reeled into the deception that the Truth of God's Word should be exchanged for a lie.

You have given your 25 reasons to abandon God's Word, placing the blame on other people. Not sure why pointing out your lack of understanding is avoiding this deception that has taken over your mind, though.

It is impossible to engage with you without your vicious comments when I disagree with you. Sad!

 

[WPM]

Why would it take the entire 1,000 years, when the last two generations would be enough people? Do you not understand how procreation works? It is like a pyramid, the base is the last couple of generations.

How can billions of wicked be produced by the redeemed 1000 years after the second coming in their glorified bodies when the Bible says there is no marriage in the age to come?