Secure Eternal Salvation

[Lifelong_sinner]

This question ius conpletely irrelevant and PROVES that Sola Scripturs is false.

First of all - the Bible is NOT a dictionary and does NOT define Baptism in every case.

Secondly - The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles - AD 60), which was written while the Apostles were STILL ALIVE states the following about Baptism:
The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles)
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Min living WATER. But if you have not living WATER, baptize into other WATER; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

This document PROVES that the Apostles were teaching that POURING WATER on the head was equally efficacious for Baptism.

nonsense. The 5 solas are all truth, and the Bible alone is authority. No other book is Holy Spirit inspired.

 

[BreadOfLife]

nonsense. The 5 solas are all truth, and the Bible alone is authority. No other book is Holy Spirit inspired.

Then, perhaps you can show me ehere the Bble itself teaches that the Bible alone is our SOLE Authority.
Chapter and Verse, please.

As for the Didache - it is an historical Chiurch dpcument regarding the teachings of the Twelve Apostles - whil they were STILL alive when it was written. And, NOWHERE in ALL of antiquity di we see a refutation of this document.

PS - Don'te waste yout time quoting 2 Tim. 3:16. Thois verse simply states that Scripture is profitable - NOT that it is our SOLE Authority.
That fairy tale was invented by your Protestant Fathers in the 16th century.

2 Tim. 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Then, perhaps you can show me ehere the Bble itself teaches that the Bible alone is our SOLE Authority.
Chapter and Verse, please.

As for the Didache - it is an historical Chiurch dpcument regarding the teachings of the Twelve Apostles - whil they were STILL alive when it was written. And, NOWHERE in ALL of antiquity di we see a refutation of this document.

PS - Don'te waste yout time quoting 2 Tim. 3:16. Thois verse simply states that Scripture is profitable - NOT that it is our SOLE Authority.
That fairy tale was invented by your Protestant Fathers in the 16th century.

2 Tim. 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

did you even read what you wrote?? 2 Timothy said, all scripture is breathed out by God. The ONLY scripture is the Bible. You catholics are just as deceived as any of the other cults.

WCF chpt 1, part 3: “The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.”

 

[Illuminator]

did you even read what you wrote?? 2 Timothy said, all scripture is breathed out by God. The ONLY scripture is the Bible. You catholics are just as deceived as any of the other cults.

WCF chpt 1, part 3: “The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.”

If the Bible is the sole authority, why appeal the the WCF??? Isn't that an authority outside the Bible? A 66 book canon did not exist anywhere on the planet until the 14th century, so logically it's another Protestant man made tradition!

2 Timothy 3
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Scriptures)
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1. Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2. Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3. Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.
In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. Still taught today. The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

• Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
• Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
• Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
• Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more historical/literal approach,
and ignored 2 Tim 3:16!!!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

If the Bible is the sole authority, why appeal the the WCF??? Isn't that an authority outside the Bible? A 66 book canon did not exist anywhere on the planet until the 14th century, so logically it's another Protestant man made tradition!

2 Timothy 3
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Scriptures)
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1. Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2. Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3. Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.
In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. Still taught today. The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

• Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
• Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
• Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
• Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more historical/literal approach,
and ignored 2 Tim 3:16!!!

more nonsense.

 

[BreadOfLife]

more nonsense.

A classic NON-response . .

 

[amigo de christo]

Secure eternal salvation is found ONLY in JESUS CHRIST . Now let all that draws breath praise the glorious wonderous Lord .
Being hearers and doers of the word .

 

[BreadOfLife]

did you even read what you wrote?? 2 Timothy said, all scripture is breathed out by God. The ONLY scripture is the Bible. You catholics are just as deceived as any of the other cults.

WCF chpt 1, part 3: “The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.”

So much ignorance and dishonesty - it's difficult to know just where to begin - but here goes . . .

As to WHAT Scripture is - WHO said that it was anythinhg other than the Bible?? The Catholluc Church gave YOU and the rest of the world the Canon of Scripture. 2 Tim. 3:16 indeed sayes the all Scripture is "God-breathed" (Theopneustos). - but NOWHERE does it say that it is our SOLE Authority. Scriptures itself tells us that Chtist's CHURCH is our final earthly Authorithy (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

It's also glaringly hypocritical how you refer to the "Westminster Confession of Faith", written some 1600 years AFTER the Apostles by prideful, rebellious MEN - to bolster the idea that I shouldn't use an historical document like the Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) to show you what the Church looked like in the 1st century.

And, as for your FALSE claiim of "Apocrypha" - the Didache is NOT Apochripha and is NOT considered to be Scripture by the Catholic Church. That's just another idiotic LIE spun by Catholic-hayers like yourself.
Time for a little History Lesson . . .

The Bible is made up of 72 Books - NOT 66. Your Protestant Fathers took it upon themselves to throw out
7 Books (and portions of Esther and Daniel) from the OT.
About 40 years after Jesus died and rose from the dead, Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans. The Temple was desecrated and completely destroyed.

Not long after this, a group of Rabbis asked permission from the Roman authorities to hold a Rabbinical school at Jabneh (or Jamnia). One of the things discussed was use of the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) by early Christians. The name, Septuagint", comes from the number of scholars (70) who translated the Hebrew texts into Greek.

At this gathering, they decided to eject 7 Books (and portions of Esther and Daniel) that they felt had become "uninspired". They provided a new Greek translation because the early Christians were converting the Jews using the Septuagint, which was compiled about 200 years before the birth of Christ.

According to historical sources, the rabbinical gathering at Jabneh was NOT an "official" council with binding authority to make such a decision. It can be clearly shown that Jesus and the Apostles studied and quoted from these 7 Books. In the New Testament, we see some 200 references to them.

The main advocate for removing the 7 Deuterocanonical Books was Rabbi Akiva, who was also known for proclaiming that a man named Simon Bar Kohkba was the real Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD). So, YOUR Protestant Fathers chose to go with a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture that was declared by a FALSE Prophet who proclaimed a FALSE “Christ”.
This is the choice ALL Protestants have made.

Luther also had problems with many New Testament Books, which he sought to remove. The Book of Hebrews, the Epistles of James and Jude and the Book of Revelation were ALL on the chopping block. He referred to the Epistle of James as the “Epistle of Straw” because it stressed the importance of works, which he rejected. If it had not been for the urging of his contemporaries – men like Philip Melanchton – Protestant Bibles would have been MUCH thinner.

That's YOUR rebellious, prideful Protestant histpory . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Secure eternal salvation is found ONLY in JESUS CHRIST . Now let all that draws breath praise the glorious wonderous Lord .
Being hearers and doers of the word .

Not only do Catholics understand that salvation is found ONLY in Jests Christ - WE taught the WORLD about this (Matt. 28:19).
As for "Eternally Secure" - that was a 16th century invention of your Protestant Fathers.

The Bible - which is the inerrant Word of Almighty God repeatedly warms born-again Christians that they must REMAIN fauthful - or LOSE their secure position. So STUDY your Bible . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[amigo de christo]

Catholic rhertoric does not work on a lamb . We point to JESUS CHRIST .
Ye worship what ye know not , but lambs know whom we worship and whom we serve . The glorious Lord JESUS CHRIST
the RISEN savoir and our hope and our salvation . Now again , let all that draws air both praise and thank the glorious Lord .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catholic rhertoric does not work on a lamb . We point to JESUS CHRIST .
Ye worship what ye know not , but lambs know whom we worship and whom we serve . The glorious Lord JESUS CHRIST
the RISEN savoir and our hope and our salvation . Now again , let all that draws air both praise and thank the glorious Lord .

Like I said before - the Catholic Church taught the WOORLD about Jesus Christ, per Matt. 28:19.
The fact that YOU do't know your history only magnifies yoiur ignorance.

The following is from a fellow Catholic brother, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch - who was a lifelong disciple of the Apostle John. He wrote the following on his way to his martyrdom in Rome – while John was presumable STILL alive . . .

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107).

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 107]).

In like manner let everyone respect the deacons as they would respect Jesus Christ, and just as they respect the bishop as a type of the Father, and the presbyters as the council of God and college of the apostles. Without these, it cannot be called a Church. I am confident that you accept this, for I have received the exemplar of your love and have it with me in the person of your bishop. His very demeanor is a great lesson and his meekness is his strength. I believe that even the godless do respect him (Letter to the Trallians 3:1-2 [A. D. 107]).

The SAME Church that YOU and your Protestant Fathers divorced yourselves from
Good luck with that . . .

 

[Marymog]

oh you think they had indoor plumbing?
or they washed their hands by sprinkling from a holy bowl?
have you ever seen a mikveh? do you imagine it is a water-bottle for spritzing mist?

lol

baptizo = immersion.
that's not a teaching of men; it's factual etymology.
((not that salvation or forgiveness of sin is accomplished through H2O rituals))

your sprinkling with 8 drops of water made holy by the magical well-rehearsed oral blessing of a very-special-human? that's human tradition, doll.
the very definition of it.

Doll? What the heck does that mean sir?

No, I do not think they had indoor plumbing. They probably used jars with water and washed their hands in bowls. When Paul baptized the jailers entire household I wonder if they all went to a mikveh or down to a natural body of water to get full immersion. Scripture doesn't say so we will never know. Maybe they just used a jar of water and a bowl...since they didn't have indoor plumbing with bathtubs.

No, I have never seen a mikveh. I had to look it up. Now I know....Thank you.

Baptizo does not mean immersion ONLY. It implies it. The Church teaches and has taught for 2,000 years that immersion is the preferred method but pouring is acceptable. Your teaching denies people who are unable to be submerged a valid baptism. Are you comfortable denying baptism to a person just because they can't be immersed with water?

Very simple challenge for you post: Show me one vs in Scripture that tells us HOW to baptize! If it says immersion only, I will join you in your "immersion only" teaching. We do not KNOW that it is immersion only just by reading Scripture. But what we do KNOW is the earliest Christian writings we have from 70AD (when the Apostles still walked the earth) say pouring is acceptable if immersion is not feasible. That writing was in the Didache of which was a runner up to be included in the bible that you quote from. Did you even know that post? Also, the earliest Chrisitan art depicting baptism shows pouring. So your immersion only teaching is destroyed by Christian historical writings, early Christian art and it can NOT be supported by Scripture alone! Are you ever tired of being wrong post? I'm not tired of point it out!!

Mary

 

[Marymog]

the Bereans did not search scripture to find out if the 1st & 2nd hand accounts they heard about 'there's finally a prophet in Israel after so many years?' was true or not.

the Bereans searched scripture to find out if the doctrine Paul & Silas were teaching them was true.

leave the poor horse corpse alone; you just look dumber and more argumentative every time you pick up that crooked stick again.

Lol.....Who taught you that???

Your men have taught you that the Bereans searched Scripture (what we now call the OT) "to find out if the doctrine Paul & Silas were teaching them was true"? Soooooooo your men have taught you that the Bereans had already recognized Jesus as the new Messiah spoken of in Scripture BEFORE Paul and Silas showed up on the scene? When Paul and Silas showed up they debated "doctrine" with the Bereans and they searched the OT to see if the "doctrine" Paul and Silas were teaching was true? Have you really thought that theory out post????

Oh goodness......

 

[Marymog]

Now you are lying. I never said any such thing, and I corrected you for that lie in the very thread your speaking of

I have never seen anyone so desperate in my life they have to lie about others to defend their own belief system.

Your about to go on ignore.

Sooooooo you didn't write this: post #696 in the catholic issues thread: I call people who can be trusted to correctly interpret the word also...

 

[Marymog]

You maam, should be ashamed of yourself.

Lol...I should be ashamed of myself for repeating what you said???? Hmmmm.....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sooooooo you didn't write this: post #696 in the catholic issues thread: I call people who can be trusted to correctly interpret the word also...

I do not see anything in that post where EG said he blindly follows men and puts their words equal or above scripture, or that I would follow them without testing what they say.

But as I have said many times. You will only see what you want to see.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lol...I should be ashamed of myself for repeating what you said???? Hmmmm.....

No you should be ashamed for bearing false witness

But then again, Maybe not. You can lie all you want. Get drunk all you want. And sin all you want as long as it is not extreme sins..

 

[Marymog]

I do not see anything in that post where EG said he blindly follows men and puts their words equal or above scripture, or that I would follow them without testing what they say.

But as I have said many times. You will only see what you want to see.

So when you said you trust those people you don't really trust them. You just want to hear what they have to say because you don't blindly follow other people. After they tell you their interpretation of Scripture YOU then decide of what they told you is true. Because YOU properly tested what they said.....Fascinating....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So when you said you trust those people you don't really trust them. You just want to hear what they have to say because you don't blindly follow other people. After they tell you their interpretation of Scripture YOU then decide of what they told you is true. Because YOU properly tested what they said.....Fascinating....

I trust a lot of people It does not mean I would trust them completely as a person who can never make a mistake.

Its ok. Like I said this conversation is useless. You continue to twist things to fit your own theory. And refuse to admit your wrongs.

Again, you have not even been baptised. And you are yelling at others how that is one thing they must do to be saved.

So how can I listen to you?

 

[Marymog]

I trust a lot of people It does not mean I would trust them completely as a person who can never make a mistake.

Its ok. Like I said this conversation is useless. You continue to twist things to fit your own theory. And refuse to admit your wrongs.

Again, you have not even been baptised. And you are yelling at others how that is one thing they must do to be saved.

So how can I listen to you?

I have been baptized and I told you I was baptized.....but your memory is short and your back peddling about listening to other men OR not listening to other men....whatever your new story is...has become amusing!!