Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

And to offer in it's place, "You'd better keep performing!"

Show me the verse or passage that says 'believing' is you performing to earn salvation as a reward of work.
Then I will show you were it says 'believing' is a reward of grace.
Okay?
Are you up to it?
I'm all 'ears'. Point me to that verse.

 

[marks]

Show me the verse or passage that says 'believing' is you performing to earn salvation as a reward of work.
Then I will show you were it says 'believing' is a reward of grace.
Okay?
Are you up to it?
I'm all 'ears'. Point me to that verse.

It's a generic term. You require this sort of performance, someone else requires that sort, but it all comes out the same. Either you are giving yourself to Jesus and He's keeping you, or you are hoping you can be good enough in whatever way you think you have to be good enough to get in. We really do have vastly different ideas of what Born Again is.

And don't worry about an excuse to not answer a question, many you've left unanswered, it's your choice.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The argument in this discussion is the certainty of God's salvation is what is to lead you to continued believing. That's what the Bible says.

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." Hebrews 4:14
​

If you want to believe that continued believing is a given, I'm fine with that. But don't go saying we don't have to continue to believe in order to be saved.

Again, you go on and over a moot point, as if it were valid, that only serves to undermine true faith. Who does that? I mean, really, who does that?

You need to reconcile and harmonize this passage with the others.

Hold firmly to what you profess.

And I guess you are adding in your mind your own words,

Hold firmly to what you profess or else you are unborn!

But that would introduce a true conflict with the plainly stated Scriptures . . . you know the rest.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'd sooner call this a spiritual reality and a temporal reality. We are recreated righteous and holy, and that's what we are, in the celetial realm. While in the material realm, we still function through our bodies, which are corrupted by sin.

And so the pruning and discipling is how God is training us to live the new way, even though there seems such a pull to live the old way.

Much love!

Many folks call it by different names- it all means the same thing- How God views us (as perfect) and how we are in our day to walk as we grow in grace and truth and knowledge

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, it's not that severe of a contention, lol.
Thinking that one can stop believing is not damnable.
The Bible tells us to keep believing.

Yes and it also says that salvation faith is a once for all time act, if one bothered to look at the Greek and do a little study.

Sorry but believing one can lose their salvation denies that Jesus died for all sins. It makes God a fool! Saves someone just to unsave them

Makes them a child of God only to unmake them.

Because Jesus suffered for every one's sin- sin has no part in whether one is saved or not! Every sin even the ones we have not committed yet have already been judged and punished at Calvary! People are lost because they reject the forgiveness God offers, not because they are sinners.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Salvation is not lost by sinning.
Salvation is lost by ceasing to trust in Christ.
Sinning will surely be the result of such a decision, but it is the unbelief itself that separates one from Christ. Like when the Galatians became severed from Christ for no longer believing that justification is exclusively by faith apart from works:

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4​

Sorry but Jesus said He willo never leave us or forsake us.

He also said that He who begun a good work will perform it to that day! Those are bible verses you say are not true!

Paul was concerned that they even got saved! YOu need to look past English translations.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A friend awhile back called OSAS, Once Sealed Always Sealed. And yes, it is biblical.

And the doubt about that is of Satan, the enemy if truth

The Romans church denies OSAS because their members are to have faith in the church for their salvation.

I ask my Catholic friends, would you say you're Christian?
Each one answered , no, I'm Catholic.

Very disturbing if you think about it.

Denying eternal security has and is Satans greatest deception he has foisted on believers. It causes us to take our focus off of Jesus and onto to our deeds! Especially if we do sin, God forbid. By lookingf at how good or bad we are doing we take our focus off of Jesus and thus rob us of the anointing that empowers us to glorify God!

Also, Jesus defined what the work is that pleases God when the Pharisees asked HIm what was the work they had to do! Believe on the one whom the Father sent!

John 6:28-29
King James Version

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matthew 24 is an assurance for the indwelt elect saints. That no matter the trials and travails, God's got our back. Even if this world martyrs us, we are at the end of this journey, eternally sealed and saved.
Endures, being the operative word.

If it was meant as your church teaches, it would have been a different application.
Like, remains faithful, etc...
It doesn't say that because God said it all in his good news message.

Eternal Salvation.
God is not a man that he should lie.
Salvation , Faith, are a free irrevocable gift by God's grace.

Your problem - as is the problem with ALL those who pervert the Word of God is that you cherry-pick verses of Scripture, absolutize them and completely ignore ALL of the other verses that give them their proper context.

As I stated before - for EWVERY verse that you take out of context to create the false doctrine of OSAS - I can provide you with an equal or greater number of verses that show that our salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation.

I've already given you about TWENTY - and you have completely ignored them . . .

 

[marks]

Denying eternal security has and is Satans greatest deception he has foisted on believers. It causes us to take our focus off of Jesus and onto to our deeds! Especially if we do sin, God forbid. By lookingf at how good or bad we are doing we take our focus off of Jesus and thus rob us of the anointing that empowers us to glorify God!

It turns our attention from Spirit to flesh.

It robs us of our joy, and our ability to live the lives we want, thinking we have to make it happen.

Much love!

 

[TEXBOW]

Yes and it also says that salvation faith is a once for all time act, if one bothered to look at the Greek and do a little study.

Sorry but believing one can lose their salvation denies that Jesus died for all sins. It makes God a fool! Saves someone just to unsave them

Makes them a child of God only to unmake them.

Because Jesus suffered for every one's sin- sin has no part in whether one is saved or not! Every sin even the ones we have not committed yet have already been judged and punished at Calvary! People are lost because they reject the forgiveness God offers, not because they are sinners.

Jesus died on the cross so YOU COULD be forgiven. When Jesus died on the cross the whole world did not become saved. I can pay your bail money so you can have freedom but you do not have to walk out of jail a free man just because I did so.

 

[marks]

Jesus died on the cross so YOU COULD be forgiven. When Jesus died on the cross the whole world did not become saved. I can pay your bail money so you can have freedom but you do not have to walk out of jail a free man just because I did so.

It's not enough to be forgiven.

Jesus said all sins will be forgiven man, and then warned of one in particular. John the Baptist announced, Behold! The Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world.

But you must be born again. Otherwise we remain forgiven dead men.

Much love!

 

[TEXBOW]

It's not enough to be forgiven.

Jesus said all sins will be forgiven man, and then warned of one in particular. John the Baptist announced, Behold! The Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world.

But you must be born again. Otherwise we remain forgiven dead men.

Much love!

Correct. By God's grace we through faith believe.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Your problem - as is the problem with ALL those who pervert the Word of God is that you cherry-pick verses of Scripture, absolutize them and completely ignore ALL of the other verses that give them their proper context.

As I stated before - for EWVERY verse that you take out of context to create the false doctrine of OSAS - I can provide you with an equal or greater number of verses that show that our salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation.

I've already given you about TWENTY - and you have completely ignored them . .

No, I paid attention to those verses you cherry picked.
The Catholic believes what the church tells them is true.
To go against the church is anathema.

While the church goes against God's words and the soul, yes soul, reason God, The Word, became flesh.

You believe in the word of the church.

The Non-Catholic Christian believes in The Word's word.

God is not a man that he should lie.The same can never be said for the church of your faith.
Eternal Insecurity is not of God.

John 6:37, “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.”

John 10:28, “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.”
Romans 11:29, “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”
2 Corinthians 1:22, “And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.”

 

[Pythagorean12]

Denying eternal security has and is Satans greatest deception he has foisted on believers. It causes us to take our focus off of Jesus and onto to our deeds! Especially if we do sin, God forbid. By lookingf at how good or bad we are doing we take our focus off of Jesus and thus rob us of the anointing that empowers us to glorify God!

Also, Jesus defined what the work is that pleases God when the Pharisees asked HIm what was the work they had to do! Believe on the one whom the Father sent!

John 6:28-29
King James Version

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Amazing to think in the body of the church there are those who are led to follow Satan.

How does any Christian think Jesus died for nothing? That every scripture that pertains to Jesus giving his blessed assurance of eternal security, the seal, all of it, is a lie.

We can work and stay saved. We'll find out if we worked hard enough and are saved, after we're dead. Meanwhile, live afraid.

Really though it is a simple matter I think. Cut and dry in fact.

Those who espouse works save aren't saved.

Or, they're false people goading the faithful to watch us struggle to change their mind.

Good deeds don't save. Our being indwelt I'd what leads us to do good deeds. Not for the eternal reward we think they'll tally. But because we follow the holy spirits guidance as a second nature, and in service to God.

That can really anger the false hearted.

We're good people by the grace of God.

They aren't.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Everybody who believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth is saved.
The question is, are they going to remain saved to the day they die.
That is where the disagreement is.
I mean, for us Protestants. Because I understand that Catholics do not think that faith without reward of works is sufficient to make a person righteous, as it did for Abraham, our example of justification. They insist that faith plus the performance of work, particularly baptism and a Passover observance, is what makes you righteous in God's sight.

The disagreement will be there because those who think we can lose our salvation are deluded by the sins of egocentrism and pride.

Like unto Lucifer, they think they can outwit God in his own domain and overcome his will that he gave his life, as Christ , to seal in his new covenant. And then taught in his word they deny, or imply are lies.

Do they know the meaning of covenant?

They're the clay that insist they need to help the potter create their shape as he wills. It's a mutual collaboration for the future pot to do its part in insuring the potter keep his word he'll make them into a good shape worthy of being called a pot.

And really, who insists they're eternally damned unless they work hard to help God keep his word, as the word, and save them?

No one who knows God within.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Everybody who believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth is saved.
The question is, are they going to remain saved to the day they die.
That is where the disagreement is.
I mean, for us Protestants. Because I understand that Catholics do not think that faith without reward of works is sufficient to make a person righteous, as it did for Abraham, our example of justification. They insist that faith plus the performance of work, particularly baptism and a Passover observance, is what makes you righteous in God's sight.

Rewards for works ?
The only works are that of God that bless.
I know of RC that are as Protestants claim, but such are idiots who lack true understanding.
Faith without the true workings of God within one, are dead.
Ones Soul can not be Saved without one abiding in the Vine.

So many Protestants peddle it's all a done deal, you believe and you are saved Not true. because the Parable of the sower, points this all out and many have faith in the word but this fails because of the weeds, that are the cares of this world strangle such.

All faith must grow ! and it does in fact because Bible says, Oh you of little faith ! but what is needed is the faith that can move mountains, so that means one who is truly born again of the Holy Spirit. Big difference their ! Ones faith is that that can only consume milk and the other has the ability to consume solid resolve.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I ask my Catholic friends, would you say you're Christian?
Each one answered , no, I'm Catholic.

Very disturbing if you think about it.

Sounds like your "Catholic" friends aren't very bright because they Catholic church doesn't teach this. No only are we Christians - we were the very FIRST Christians.

Something tells me that you don't have many faithful Catholic friends anyway . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ones Soul can not be Saved without one abiding in the Vine.

Correct.
The faith that justifies (makes one righteous) apart from works (Romans 4:6) is the faith that is expressed in love (Galatians 5:6).
That is why a person can not be saved when Jesus comes back without works. Their works must testify to the fact that they have been made righteous by faith apart from works, or else they will be judged as not having the faith that justifies apart from works.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, I paid attention to those verses you cherry picked.
The Catholic believes what the church tells them is true.
To go against the church is anathema.

While the church goes against God's words and the soul, yes soul, reason God, The Word, became flesh.

You believe in the word of the church.

The Non-Catholic Christian believes in The Word's word.

God is not a man that he should lie.The same can never be said for the church of your faith.
Eternal Insecurity is not of God.

John 6:37, “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.”

John 10:28, “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.”
Romans 11:29, “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”
2 Corinthians 1:22, “And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.”

I didn't do any "cherry-picking".
I gave you the CONTERXT for the verses that YOU cherry-picked OUT of context.

As for listening to the Church - this edict comes from Christ - GOD Himself. the fact that YOU don't know this speaks volumes about your ignorance of God's Word.
Good luck with that . . .

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

 

[Pythagorean12]

I didn't do any "cherry-picking".
I gave you the CONTERXT for the verses that YOU cherry-picked OUT of context.

As for listening to the Church - this edict comes from Christ - GOD Himself. the fact that YOU don't know this speaks volumes about your ignorance of God's Word.
Good luck with that . . .

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Good luck.