Secure Eternal Salvation

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marks

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No it isn’t.

It’s this:

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12)
Amen!!!

Romans 6:3-12 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Great passage!!

Having been "co-crucified" with Christ, we've died, and being dead, are free from sin. And we also believe we shall also live with Him.

So we need to reckon ourselves in fact dead to sin, and alive unto God through our continuing to believe, continuing to obey, wait, that's not what it says! We are alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So for this reason, do not let sin rule in your dying body, that you should obey sin's lusts.

Believe in our crucifiction with Jesus. Believe in our resurrection with Jesus. Believe in our freedom from sin. Believe this has settled the matter, that we SHALL live with Him!

Believe you are alive unto God not based on what you do or don't do, but based what Jesus did on the cross, and as He continues forever our intercessor.

Believe, and don't let sin rule! Sin's power is a lie, it's false!

When He appears, you shall appear with Him. When we see Him, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. And he who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.

Maybe because when we come to see the certainty of our salvation, that's when we really "get it" that the power of sin really is broken.

Much love!
 

marks

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You were trying to say that believing was somehow a work of self righteous merit.
Maybe if you just quote my post, and I don't mean just picking out a few words from the middle of a sentence. You aren't saying what I said.

Much love!
 

Ferris Bueller

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Here's my question.

Having been born from your parents, is there some circumstance you could introduce which would cause that to stop being reality? That you were born from your parents, and are therefore human? Of the line of Adam?

I wouldn't think so. Even were one to, God forbid, murder their parents, yet they remain their parents, that act does not change this fact. Were they to denounce their parents, of disown their parents, would that change the reality of who they are? I'd answer no.

Someone may say, they might disown that child, but, the question remains, does that change, who, and what, they are? No, it does not.

That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.

We have a new parent. Can we undo that?

Much love!
You're making too much of the analogy of 'son'.
Besides, you are an adopted son.

"He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:5
 

marks

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You're making too much of the analogy of 'son'.
Besides, you are an adopted son.

"He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:5

What you call analogy God calls reality.

John 1:11-13 KJV
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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Besides, you are an adopted son.
Adoption in Scripture is NOT the same as adoption in human affairs. The ordinary meaning of adoption is the acceptance of a child born to other parents into a home, and included in that family as an adopted child.

But the children of God are (1) born of God, (2) born from above, (3) born of the Spirit, and (4) born again. So they are indeed legitimate children of God. Therefore in what sense in the word "adopted" used in Scripture? What it means that every child of God is automatically an heir or God and a joint-heir with Christ (also noted in Scripture). In ancient times only the eldest child was the heir. But God gives all His children the status of heirs, and at the same time reserves an eternal inheritance in Heaven for each one (along with a mansion in the New Jerusalem).
 

Ronald Nolette

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Jesus died on the cross so YOU COULD be forgiven. When Jesus died on the cross the whole world did not become saved. I can pay your bail money so you can have freedom but you do not have to walk out of jail a free man just because I did so.

I never said that everyone is saved. I just said, Jesus paid the price for all mens sins. One has to accept that payment to be saved! If they reject that payment, they are lost.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Amazing to think in the body of the church there are those who are led to follow Satan.:(

How does any Christian think Jesus died for nothing? That every scripture that pertains to Jesus giving his blessed assurance of eternal security, the seal, all of it, is a lie.

We can work and stay saved. We'll find out if we worked hard enough and are saved, after we're dead. Meanwhile, live afraid.

Really though it is a simple matter I think. Cut and dry in fact.

Those who espouse works save aren't saved.

Or, they're false people goading the faithful to watch us struggle to change their mind.

Good deeds don't save. Our being indwelt I'd what leads us to do good deeds. Not for the eternal reward we think they'll tally. But because we follow the holy spirits guidance as a second nature, and in service to God.

That can really anger the false hearted.

We're good people by the grace of God.

They aren't.


I see them more victims of their own pride. Just like Cain offered the labor of his own hands and the religious expecting to be rewarded for what they think is their own merit. People forget that without God we can do nothing!
 
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Pythagorean12

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I see them more victims of their own pride. Just like Cain offered the labor of his own hands and the religious expecting to be rewarded for what they think is their own merit. People forget that without God we can do nothing!
True. God is alive in every particle of our being, and in all that exists.

Though I will put this out there. I don't for a minute believe every argument in favor of obviously false non-biblical doctrine is posed from an actual Christian who happens to unfortunately be on the wrong path.

I believe there are more anti-Christ teachings people on a Christian forum than we suspect is possible.

Being those committed to such ventures clearly have no life or conscience.

After a brief encounter I tend to leave posing jackals to their damnation, as God wills it for them.

Maybe that's why they're so angry. They know their fate. They just like to rail against those who shall not suffer it with them.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Your position of FULL of hole . . .

First of all – you present a couple of verses that speak to those who “believe” in Christ being saved 0- completely ignoring the CONDITION that Christ himself placed on this:

Matt. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.


Well your slick cunningness not withstanding, let us post teh rest of Jesus thought of Matthew 7.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now notice jesus DID NOT say "I knew you once but I don't know you now?" But He did say "I NEVER KNEW YOU! These are those who were never saved!


As I stated before – just ignoring those verses and blowing them off as “irrelevant” doesn’t make them ANY less true. For every verse you present – I can and have presented a verse that gives CONDITIONS for salvation.

As to your nonsense about living in “two truths – positional and experiential”BOTH Rom. 11:22 and Heb.10:26-27 warn BORN AGAIN Christians who have an Epignosis (full, experiential knowledge) of Christ falling back into sin and LOSING their security – yet YOU reject this truth.

YOu mean like how you blow off verses like I give them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish" or I will never leave thee or forsake thee?

I accept these verses 100% in their proper context and usage!

Your scholars are all correct . Lightfoot is correct when the context refers to Christians.

and the exegetical dictionary is only correct if it gives that definition as one of the definitions.

But epignosis as simply defined is this:

Strong's Number: 1922 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
epignosiß from (1921)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Epignosis 1:689,119
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ep-ig'-no-sis Noun Feminine
Definition
  1. precise and correct knowledge
    1. used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine
NAS Word Usage - Total: 20
acknowledge* 1, knowledge 14, real knowledge 1, true knowledge 4

epi-


a prefix occurring in loanwords from Greek, where it meant “upon,” “on,” “over,” “near,” “at,” “before,” “after” (epicedium; epidermis; epigene; epitome); on this model, used in the formation of new compound words (epicardium; epinephrine).

gnosis
(ˈnəʊsɪs)
n, pl -ses (-siːz)
(Ecclesiastical Terms) supposedly revealed knowledge of various spiritual truths, esp that said to have been possessed by ancient Gnostics
[C18: ultimately from Greek: knowledge, from gignōskein to know]

It correctly means to have a more intimate knowledge of something.

gnosis--- to know of something/someone
epignosis--- to know something or someone.

You err on Rom. 11:22 because Paul is not writing about individuals but ethnos groups and being placed in the place of blessing.
 

Ronald Nolette

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As to your nonsense about living in “two truths – positional and experiential”BOTH Rom. 11:22 and Heb.10:26-27 warn BORN AGAIN Christians who have an Epignosis (full, experiential knowledge) of Christ falling back into sin and LOSING their security – yet YOU reject this truth.


Your grave error here is that you entirely ignore context.

This is being written to Hebrews--after teh siege of Jerusalem began in 66 AD. but before Titus returned in 68 AD to finish the siege and destroy Jerusalem!
But let us look at the verse:

Hebrews 10:24-29
King James Version

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The sin is rejecting Jesus in context.

Now a quick history of what is happening here. Jews were being saved almost daily. They also had paracletes or those who were not yet saved but who walked alongside of the believing Jews. Persecution was terrible both from Rome and the Pharisees and Sadducees. Believing Jews were ostracized from society and relationships in Israel. Enormous pressure was put on those considering to become believers not to. Some did turn back. Hebrews 6 explains this well:


Hebrews 6
King James Version

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

When this is torn apart in the Greek, and keeps it in context, it paints a much different picture instead of a believer can lose their salvation.

Without going into many pages of explanation what this verse is saying in context and in the original language is this:

If one of these paracletes (those who are favorably walking alongside the believers), has been explained the gospel and understand that Jesus is Messiah and the law cannot save, if they should turn back and return to the Mosaic Law for salvation, they face imminent death of the 70 AD judgment prophesied in Luke 21.

They were told the truth, recognized it as truth, but by turning away and rejecting it, would require Jesus to be crucified again for their sin (unbelief). This is also physical death versus spiritual death. If Josephus and the traditions are correct, when Titus came back and finished teh siege and destruction of Jeruslaem, not one believing Jew died while over 1.1 million Jews died.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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True. God is alive in every particle of our being, and in all that exists.

Though I will put this out there. I don't for a minute believe every argument in favor of obviously false non-biblical doctrine is posed from an actual Christian who happens to unfortunately be on the wrong path.

I believe there are more anti-Christ teachings people on a Christian forum than we suspect is possible.

Being those committed to such ventures clearly have no life or conscience.

After a brief encounter I tend to leave posing jackals to their damnation, as God wills it for them.

Maybe that's why they're so angry. They know their fate. They just like to rail against those who shall not suffer it with them.


Very probable. I also know that when we are consumed by pride and aren't even aware it is our pride and not the Spirit leading us in incorrect doctrine- people get mad, because what they confuse as an affront against God is actually the spirit through our puffed up dust writings that is convicting them to give up those false ideas. I also presume there are other factors involved as well. I try to tread careful just simply because many of these folk are brother and sisters who after being saved and sealed until the day of redemption, they went to a church where these false teachings have been taught for a long time and fell prey to the lies and though saved, are in bondage to these lies that others fell prey to before them.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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You must mean "maybe saved", since your assertion is that the outcome remains unknown.

Much love!
No, you are indeed saved up until the time you depart from the faith.
Paul says present tense believing means present tense salvation (1 Corinthians 15:2).
 

Pythagorean12

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Very probable. I also know that when we are consumed by pride and aren't even aware it is our pride and not the Spirit leading us in incorrect doctrine- people get mad, because what they confuse as an affront against God is actually the spirit through our puffed up dust writings that is convicting them to give up those false ideas. I also presume there are other factors involved as well. I try to tread careful just simply because many of these folk are brother and sisters who after being saved and sealed until the day of redemption, they went to a church where these false teachings have been taught for a long time and fell prey to the lies and though saved, are in bondage to these lies that others fell prey to before them.
God tells us, he knows his own by name.

We may believe. But God knows. Till then all else is shadows and dust
 
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Ferris Bueller

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What you call analogy God calls reality.
There is not an additional new little Marks running around inside of you, lol.
It's the same 'you' but changed and made different by the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.
That's what it means to be born again/anew/from above.
 

Ferris Bueller

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in what sense in the word "adopted" used in Scripture?
You were once a child of the devil, now you are a child of God having been adopted into his family (technically, you've been attached to the body of Christ via the Holy Spirit).