Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

The disagreement will be there because those who think we can lose our salvation are deluded by the sins of egocentrism and pride.

The Bible clearly says that believing is not a reward of debt so as to give a person occasion to boast as you are asserting:

"27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith." Romans 3:27
​

Paul says Abraham believed God and was justified, not worked and was justified, and, therefore, Abraham had nothing to boast about.

" 2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”" Romans 4:2-3​

His believing is contrasted with working, not equated with it such that he could boast in that believing as Calvinism asserts. And so there is no boast in the Biblical exhortation to continue to believe. Believing is not works that put God in debt to a person for work completed. So, believing in Christ is not egocentrism and pride. Paul says so. Calvinism says it is, but as you can see Paul says it is not.

 

[Pythagorean12]

The Bible clearly says that believing is not a reward of debt so as to give a person occasion to boast as you are asserting:

"27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith." Romans 3:27
​

Paul says Abraham believed God and was justified, not worked and was justified, and, therefore, Abraham had nothing to boast about.

" 2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”" Romans 4:2-3​

His believing is contrasted with working, not equated with it such that he could boast in that believing as Calvinism asserts. And so there is no boast in the Biblical exhortation to continue to believe. Believing is not works that put God in debt to a person for work completed. So, believing in Christ is not egocentrism and pride. Paul says so. Calvinism says it is, but as you can see Paul says it is not.

You didn't understand my post.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And really, who insists they're eternally damned unless they work hard to help God keep his word, as the word, and save them?

Believing is not a work of debt.
So believing is not 'working hard' to keep God in debt to us.
Believing is a reward of Grace, not debt...

"4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:4​

It is an error to equate a believer continuing to believe with a believer continuing to work.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You didn't understand my post.

Then explain what you mean by continuing to believe so a person doesn't lose their salvation is a person 'working hard' out of pride and egotism.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Believing is not a work of debt.
So believing is not 'working hard' to keep God in debt to us.
Believing is a reward of Grace, not debt...

"4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:4​

It is an error to equate a believer continuing to believe with a believer continuing to work.

You're reiterating you didn't understand my post .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You're reiterating you didn't understand my post .

Set me straight. Make me understand what you're saying.
I think you're going to see, though, that your post reflected the fact that you did not understand what I said.
But we'll see.
I'm open. Help me understand what you were saying.

 

[marks]

The Bible clearly says that believing is not a reward of debt so as to give a person occasion to boast as you are asserting:

"27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith." Romans 3:27
​

Paul says Abraham believed God and was justified, not worked and was justified, and, therefore, Abraham had nothing to boast about.

" 2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”" Romans 4:2-3​

His believing is contrasted with working, not equated with it such that he could boast in that believing as Calvinism asserts. And so there is no boast in the Biblical exhortation to continue to believe. Believing is not works that put God in debt to a person for work completed. So, believing in Christ is not egocentrism and pride. Paul says so. Calvinism says it is, but as you can see Paul says it is not.

You turn faith into a work you have to do. Putting the onus on the man to "keep himself saved" so-called.

Plain as day.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You turn faith into a work you have to do. Putting the onus on the man to "keep himself saved" so-called.

Plain as day.

Show me where it says my believing is me trying to save myself.
I showed where it is not.

 

[marks]

[sarcasm]
Yay!!!!! I've kept believing, so I get to still be saved! Yay for me! Thank goodness I was able to keep believing! Just imaging if I hadn't been able to do it! But I did it!

Yay for me!!
[/sarcasm]

 

[Jay Ross]

You turn faith into a work you have to do. Putting the onus on the man to "keep himself saved" so-called.

Plain as day.

That is what is plainly stated in Ezekiel 18.

If a righteous man sins then he is a future candidate to die the second death, if he does not decide to repent of his iniquity.

If a wicked man turn from his iniquities and repents of them then he will live and all of his iniquities will not be remembered any more.

Sounds to me like God allows both the wicked and the righteous to freely chose the paths that they will walk down and does not stop a righteous man from turning away from God and His statues.

This is what God's salvation covenant with mankind requires of us. The Grace/New covenant focuses on the outcome and not on the diligence required of man to finish the race.

That sounds like God give the responsibility for a person to decide their salvation. That is God allows a man to freely decide destiny of life or the second death. Yes God has set the boundary condition of sin to awaken the righteous man who has turned away to commit iniquities to see and understand that he is now committing iniquities so that he can decide as to whether or not he will repent of his iniquities.

I believe that God sheds many a tear when righteous people turns away, but is full of joy when they decide to repent and throw themselves upon His mercy after they have started to go down the wrong path towards the second death.

Oh well, it seems to me that man must remain secure in their relationship with God and when man enters into the Gifts that God gives him to exercise that the works helps to keep the person focused on their working relationship with God.

We all need to know God's operational processes that are required of us to maintain our relationship with God. This is a daily reality that we must enter into without being focused the outcome. If we focus on only the outcome, we will trip ourselves up and fall so that we are not able to finish the race of life.

Shalom

 

[Ferris Bueller]

[sarcasm]
Yay!!!!! I've kept believing, so I get to still be saved! Yay for me! Thank goodness I was able to keep believing! Just imaging if I hadn't been able to do it! But I did it!

Yay for me!!
[/sarcasm]

[ignorance of scripture] ↑↑↑

You make it sound like a person should get a medal for not wanting to go to hell.
That's not what believing is about.
Paul made it very clear that there is no boast in having faith (Romans 3:27).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You turn faith into a work you have to do. Putting the onus on the man to "keep himself saved" so-called.

No, lol. The onus is on man to stay in that which keeps him saved.

Did you ever find that scripture that says faith is a work that can not justify?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good luck.

You need to study God's Word to understand exactly WHAT His Church is before you mock Him any further . . .

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).

- Jesus said that HE is the Light of the World (John 8:12).
Jesus also said that His Church is the Light of the world (Matt. 5:14).

- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

- Jesus told the leaders of His Church that WHATEVER they bound or loosed on earth would ALSO be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

- Jesus gave His Church Supreme earthly Authority, that WHATEVER His Church declared on earth will also be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18).

- Jesus said about his Church: “Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME" (Luke 10:16).

 

[marks]

I believe that God sheds many a tear when righteous people turns away,

Here's my question.

Having been born from your parents, is there some circumstance you could introduce which would cause that to stop being reality? That you were born from your parents, and are therefore human? Of the line of Adam?

I wouldn't think so. Even were one to, God forbid, murder their parents, yet they remain their parents, that act does not change this fact. Were they to denounce their parents, of disown their parents, would that change the reality of who they are? I'd answer no.

Someone may say, they might disown that child, but, the question remains, does that change, who, and what, they are? No, it does not.

That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.

We have a new parent. Can we undo that?

Much love!

 

[Pythagorean12]

You need to study God's Word to understand exactly WHAT His Church is before you mock Him any further . . .

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).

- Jesus said that HE is the Light of the World (John 8:12).
Jesus also said that His Church is the Light of the world (Matt. 5:14).

- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

- Jesus told the leaders of His Church that WHATEVER they bound or loosed on earth would ALSO be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

- Jesus gave His Church Supreme earthly Authority, that WHATEVER His Church declared on earth will also be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18).

- Jesus said about his Church: “Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME" (Luke 10:16).

You mock God, not I. Hence, the wish for your good luck. When you answer for it.

 

[marks]

We all need to know God's operational processes that are required of us to maintain our relationship with God. This is a daily reality that we must enter into without being focused the outcome. If we focus on only the outcome, we will trip ourselves up and fall so that we are not able to finish the race of life.

Absolutely!

I wonder that as I defend our permanent salvation so much that some people just assume that's all I have in mind, which would be silly to me.

The entire reason I like to focus on this topic in forum discussions is exactly this. I think we do best when our hearts are settled on this matter of our eternal life, life with Father.

Make your calling and election sure, that is, nail it down, make it immovable. So that we can simply live This Moment in loving communion with our Creator, as He shares our life with us, and shares Himself with us.

If our minds are doubting, we're waves blown by the wind, and shouldn't expect anything from God. Double minded. But when we understand that we have been born from God, and this is our new reality, and we are His forever, then we are free to live.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, lol. The onus is on man to stay in that which keeps him saved.

Did you ever find that scripture that says faith is a work that can not justify?

I haven't been looking. But that's not what I'm saying. You should go back and re-read my post.

At least you will admit that you place the onus on man to keep himself saved. "I'm holding onto Christ, Not Christ holding onto me." Like that, right?

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Knowing the certainty of our salvation is the faith that leads us to live the right life

No it isn’t.

It’s this:

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12)

 

[Pythagorean12]

Set me straight. Make me understand what you're saying.
I think you're going to see, though, that your post reflected the fact that you did not understand what I said.
But we'll see.
I'm open. Help me understand what you were saying.

That response is evidence of why
you don't understand. And cannot see. It's up to God, not me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I haven't been looking. But that's not what I'm saying. You should go back and re-read my post.

You were trying to say that believing was somehow a work of self righteous merit.
Just show me the scripture that says believing is a work of self righteous merit.
I showed you where it says it is not.

At least you will admit that you place the onus on man to keep himself saved.

Like I said, the onus is on man to remain in that which saves him and keeps him saved.
You do that by continuing to believe. And last time I checked believing was not a work of self righteous merit (Romans 3:27).

"I'm holding onto Christ, Not Christ holding onto me." Like that, right?

It's both.

"I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." Philippians 3:12
​

Of course we continue in our believing in the strength and encouragement and faith that God provides.

"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5
​

We either avail ourselves of his power through the gift of his faith while we wait for the salvation that will be revealed, or we don't.