Secure Eternal Salvation

[theefaith]

One true church Jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 all other are heretical sects the tradition of men

 

[Behold]

One true church Jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 all other are heretical sects the tradition of men

Peter was a cussing, somewhat dumb, fisherman, who backslid and eventually wrote at the end of His life a couple of Epistles, and in one of them, compares Paul's letters as equal to the Torah. Peter says that Paul's letters are SCRIPTURE< and that was before Peter died.

This is proven to be true, by the fact that Paul wrote most of the NT, and all the Church Doctrine.

They body of Christ, the Church, is not "founded on Peter".
Its founded on the Cross and the Blood of Jesus, and the Resurrection of The Lord Jesus THE Christ= that is the Proof.

 

[theefaith]

Peter was a cussing, somewhat dumb, fisherman, who backslid and eventually wrote at the end of His life a couple of Epistles, and in one of them, compares Paul's letters as equal to the Torah. Peter says that Paul's letters are SCRIPTURE< and that was before Peter died.

This is proven to be true, by the fact that Paul wrote most of the NT, and all the Church Doctrine.

They body of Christ, the Church, is not "founded on Peter".
Its founded on the Cross and the Blood of Jesus, and the Resurrection of The Lord Jesus THE Christ= that is the Proof.

Jesus says Peter!
Jesus changes Simon to Peter to indicate ministry
Jesus gives the keys (jurisdictional authority) to Peter
Jesus gives the power to bind and loose to peter
Peter administers the kingdom
Peter is in charge of the church


Peter is already administering the kingdom

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediator

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Only Peter and his successors have the keys (jurisdictional authority) from Christ to govern the church and administer the kingdom! Matt 16:18-19 Isa 22:21-22

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
And lambs
Sheep refers to the apostles
Lambs to the people

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In other words - you can't show me from Scripture

I have shown you more than enough from scripture. Including about the true bread of live which one will eat and not die, Not like the fathers, who ate weekly and still died.

ANYTHING about giving your 16th century Protestant Fathers permission to splinter off ito their own sects that teach different and conpeting doctrines.

That's what I thought . . .

Again, I do not follow men, I follow God do I could care less what anyone said in the 16th century, so you continuing to push this is just a strawman, It has no bearing on anything I have said.

 

[Marymog]

We can see in Ephesians 4:11-13 that official offices of ministry are given to various individuals in the church. And that the pastors and elders are responsible for the flock - 1 Peter 5:2. And that they have authority to see to it that unrepentant hypocrites are expelled from the congregation - 1 Corinthians 5:5. The problem is these gifted believers among us are not all unified in a single body of leadership at this time in church history because of the corrupting influence of false doctrines and teachers that has suppressed the truth - Romans 1:18. Which Paul prophesied would happen soon after his departure - Acts of the Apostles 20:28-29.

Soooooo Ferris, your theory is that the "gifted believers" that are "responsible for the flock" who have "authority to see to it that unrepentant hypocrites are expelled from a congregation" "are not all unified in a single body of leadership at this time in church history"!!! And that unification ended soon after the departure of the Apostle Paul. I wonder why God allowed that "authority" to end? Or is your theory that it never ended we just don't know WHO has that authority?

 

[Marymog]

Peter has no higher standing than James here ((v.13)), but all are subject to the scripture

you should read Scripture before commenting on it:

Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).

Matt. 14:28-29 – only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water.

Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 – Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.

Matt. 16:17 – Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.

Matt. 16:19 – only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.

Matt. 17:24-25 – the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus’ tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus.

Matt. 17:26-27 – Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter.

Matt. 18:21 – in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus’ teachings.

Matt. 19:27 – Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.

Mark 14:37 – at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.

Mark 16:7 – Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.

Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.

Luke 5:4,10 – Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the “fisher of men.”

Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-à-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.

Luke 8:45 – when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.

Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 – Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.

Luke 9:28;33 – Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.

Luke 12:41 – Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter’s formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.

Luke 22:31-32 – Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.

Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 – John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.

Acts 15, Council of Jersleum: The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them,......After they finished speaking, James replied, “My brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first looked favorably on the Gentiles,

Now I could go on and on and on to destroy your theory but I will stop there....

 

[Marymog]

How does the magisterium not see that Apostle John says every believer has the anointing? 1 John 2:20-27

Ok....Lets flesh out this theory (every believer has the anointing) that has been taught to you by your Protestant men that there is no need for a magisterium (teaching authority):

First off, your own Protestant men believe that THEY have teaching authority which means they have their own magisterium, sooooo it's not only a Catholic belief/practice.

Second off, can you explain to me how all 2 billion Christians currently living here on earth (not counting the billions that have already died) has the anointing to be THE teaching authority for all Christians if "every believer has the anointing"? Thats not logical.....

Third off, your theory does not cohere with the beliefs and practices of John himself. Your theory leads us to the conclusion that John does believe in a living teaching authority. In Matthew 28:19-20 John (along with the other Apostles) was told by Jesus to go and teach. Sooooo clearly there IS a teaching authority which goes against your theory.

Fourth off, at the council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) I’m willing to bet you that John doesn’t want to contradict the proceedings and conclusions of that council. That Council WAS the magisterium. They had teaching authority. Your theory is that the teaching authority ended at some point in Christian history. Where in Scripture does it say the teaching authority of The Church will end? (hint, it doesnt')

Fifth off, if we have no need that anyone should teach us then I guess we really don’t need to adhere to what John was teaching since he was a man. And the students of his (Igantus and Polycarp) didn't need to listen to him either.

Now I could go on and on and on to destroy this theory you were taught by your Protestant men but I will end it here....

 

[Marymog]

It's only invisible in that it does not exist in an official identifiable body of believers anymore like it did in the time of the Apostles.

An invisible church?....no one knows who has the authority to teach the Truth that will set us free (John 8:32)? That is a fascinating teaching......Where in the bible does it say that The Church will go invisible? That there will be no recognizable authority?

 

[Marymog]

No, I don't reject that. What I reject is the Catholic's claim to be that organization.....

You make no sense Ferris. You don't reject that The Church has organization, hierarchy etc. but you can't point to that organization and hierarchy......Fascinating...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You make no sense Ferris. You don't reject that The Church has organization, hierarchy etc. but you can't point to that organization and hierarchy......Fascinating...

I already pointed to it!

"11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ." Ephesians 4:11-13​

And I told you where you'll find them.

 

[Marymog]

I already pointed to it!

"11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ." Ephesians 4:11-13​

And I told you where you'll find them.

Lol...NO, You DIDN'T tell me where to find them.

Your theory is that there are Christians here on earth that are 'anointed' and they meet YOUR criteria for being teachers of the Truth. You named several different men (dead and alive) WHO TEACH DIFFERENT THINGS.......so how can they all be teaching THE TRUTH if they teach DIFFERENT TRUTHS........

Goodness gracious....

 

[Marymog]

You can't understand my answer because you are in completely different paradigm of thought about what constitutes the church. I used to be in that paradigm of thought, too, before I was born again. I thought like you in terms of which official religious organization is the one true church. I thought of the church in terms of a doctrinal construct instead of what it actually is, a body of individual believers. When I got born again I could see that the church is composed of the real believers interspersed throughout the religious organizations of the world. Together, with our various gifts and callings we compose the body of Christ, the church.

Oh....sooooo the problem is with the student, not the teacher

 

[Marymog]

Reverend John Moore, United Methodist Church, Berrien Springs, Michigan. Dr. Edward Grey, Suncoast Ministries, Hudson, Fl., author, former host, staff member of the 700 Club in Atlanta (now deceased. I'm no spring chicken myself). Names escape me after all these years but they'll come to me... Dean Pratt, Grace Bible Church, Hudson, Fl. Dennis Cox of Beacon Community Church, Hudson, Florida, now in private counseling practice. Jon Hendry, Living Faith Fellowship, Gwinn, MI.

hold on HOLD ON.......

All those men have different teachings sooooooooooooooooooooo HOW on God's green earth can they all be anointed by God and be teaching the Truth???? Is God confused or are they? Or you?

 

[Marymog]

In all my years of being a born again believer and attending various churches I have met a handful of pastors and elders that I could see were actually called and anointed by God to hold an official office of ministry in the church. Most were not, but were in the ministry nonetheless.

YOU "could see were actually called and anointed by God"????? God gave YOU the ability to see who HE anointed??????????

Fascinating......

 

[Ferris Bueller]

An invisible church?

The church is visible. You see it in the face of every born again believer. What does not exist at this time is an organization of true apostles. But the church itself, it is visible. You won't get this because you have your mind set on thinking the church is a religious organization of leaders, not the members of Christ's body.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOU "could see were actually called and anointed by God"????? God gave YOU the ability to see who HE anointed??????????

Fascinating......

Good grief, mame, the apostle John plainly said believers have the anointing and have the ability to identify an anointed person. Why don't you believe him instead of your religious organization???? Start believing the true, original apostles, not these fakes that told you they are apostles.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok....Lets flesh out this theory (every believer has the anointing) that has been taught to you by your Protestant men

No, it comes right from the Bible, lol!

that there is no need for a magisterium (teaching authority):

I have repeatedly said Ephesians 4:11-13 shows us there are those among us true believers who are called to and are gifted in various teaching and evangelistic offices! What we differ with you about is we don't believe the Catholic church represents those called and anointed people in any way shape or form. They've strayed too far from Biblical truth for them to be even remotely considered called and anointed of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Soooooo Ferris, your theory is that the "gifted believers" that are "responsible for the flock" who have "authority to see to it that unrepentant hypocrites are expelled from a congregation" "are not all unified in a single body of leadership at this time in church history"!!! And that unification ended soon after the departure of the Apostle Paul. I wonder why God allowed that "authority" to end? Or is your theory that it never ended we just don't know WHO has that authority?

OMG, no offense, but you're being really hard headed, lol. Listen to what I've been saying ! The authority of various believers in the body exists to this very day!!!! Just not in a single, unified body of leaders as it was in the days of the apostles. Starting with the Catholics, the truth got suppressed and ruined and we've spent the last 500 years putting the pieces back together.

 

[Marymog]

OMG, no offense, but you're being really hard headed, lol. Listen to what I've been saying ! The authority of various believers in the body exists to this very day!!!! Just not in a single, unified body of leaders as it was in the days of the apostles. Starting with the Catholics, the truth got suppressed and ruined and we've spent the last 500 years putting the pieces back together.

Ummmm.....I quoted EXACTLY what you wrote soooooo how is that being hard headed and not listening????

So, help me out here, what "authority" do these "various believers" have? Do they have authority over ME?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

No, it comes right from the Bible, lol!

Yup, you are right. It does say that in Scripture. But you and the men who taught you took it out of context. CONTEXT is important.