Secure Eternal Salvation

[BreadOfLife]

what is this a picture of?

View attachment 20093

is it God Himself, having become flesh?
is this Christ? is this The True Manna?
the Hidden One?

have you ever heard of Psalm 51:4.

Transubstatiation as it pertains to the Eucharist is ONE thing - bit that is NOT what you were saying.
YOU were implying that Catholics beliueve that the PRIEST must transubstantiate into Christ in order to forgive sins.
So - if you're going to continuee arguing - then stick to your ORIGINAL argument . . .

And as for the Eucharist - the Bread of Lufe - Jesus told His Disciples:
"This IS my Body" and "This IS my Blood" (Matt. 26:26–28, Luke 22:19–20, Mark 14:22–24, 1 Cor. 11:23–25).

Since you guys CLAIM to take Jesus at His word - then why don't you believe Him when He say this?

 

[BreadOfLife]

In your dreams my friend, In your dreams

Fair enough.

Whever you're ready to prove the following from Scripture - I'll be right here.

They keys were given to everyone who can give the gospel.

 

[BreadOfLife]

wow, wrongly accuse much?
i belong to Jesus Christ - not to a 'sect' like you do.
He bought me with His own blood. Acts 20:28

& 16th century, what???
have you heard of Tertullian? Justin Martyr? Ignatius? those are my brothers - from before the RCC sect was born.
they are my brothers in the person of Christ - 1 Corinthians 3:21 - stop boasting in men! heaven has no queen!

ALL of those men were Catholics - although Tertullian was later carried away into the Montanist Heresy.

As for WHO yoou follow -
- If you believe in the false, man-made invention of Sola Scriptura or Sola Fide as defined by your Protestant Fathers - then you follow THEM.
- If you adhere to the edited, Protestant OT Canon of Scripture - then you follow THEM.
- If you believe in the 16th century, man-made invention of OSAS - you follow THEM.

Finally - in the depths of your ignorance, you fail to understand what "RCC" means.
Allow me to educate you . . .

There is no "Roman Catholic Church". "Roman" Cathollic pertains to one of about twenty Loturgical Rites that comprise the ONE Cathoic Church. Along with the Roman/Latin - there is the Maronite, Melkite, Buzantine, Coptic, Ruthenian and many others. They are ALL in communion with each other and the Pope.

This ONE Catholic church s the SAME Church written about by 1st century Bishop, Ignatius of Antioch:, who was a lifelong student of the Apostle John:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

 

[BreadOfLife]

there's a perfectly good Greek word for 'authority' - ἐξουσία, exousia.
interesting word.
doesn't happen to be the word in 2 Corinthians 2:10
weren't you making a big deal about the exact language earlier?

hmm.

Soooo, becayse Paul wrote, "In the person of Christ" instead of "By the authority of Christ - YOU think this makes a diufference? Apparently, you didn't actually READ both of the passages that I posted.
Try to understand the CONTEXT here . . .

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states:
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been FOR you in the presence (PERSON) of Christ”

Then, he shows the CONTEXT of what he is saying later in the same Letter:
2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given US the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation. So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. WE implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

This isn't rocket sacience and these people weren't scholars.
Paul was speaking matter-pf-factly to a bunch of 1st century believers.

 

[BreadOfLife]

also what's that ring doing on his finger; are not priests forbidden to marry, according to human rules and tradition?
has human tradition received an update i was not aware of?
((i turned off auto-update; it's bothersome))

Your abject ignorance rears its ugly head once niore.
Allow me to educate you - again . . .

First of all - EVERY priest wears a ring as a sign that he is married to Chirst and His Church.

Secondly - whereas priests in the Latin Rite must take a vow of celibacy - this is NOT the case for priests in the Eastern Rites.
However, to someone like YOU who erroneously believes that they are all "RCC" - you fail to grasp this . . .

 

[post]

As for WHO yoou follow -

His name is Jesus.
He is the only foundation; no other foundation can be laid.
He is the only mediator between God and man, having broken down the wall of separation, so that all who are in Him can enter the holy place boldly.
He calls His sheep by name, and He will not lose even one. if they are lost, He finds them, and carries them back on His shoulder, rejoicing. He is good, faithful, and mighty to save, even to the uttermost - not by works; neither by the will, desire nor the effort of man, but by God who does as He pleases, irrespective of person.

do you need me to go look up the scripture that substantiates all those things, or are you sufficiently well-versed?

 

[post]

whereas priests in the Latin Rite must take a vow of celibacy - this is NOT the case for priests in the Eastern Rites.

interesting.

so there are competing human traditions, you say?
which may be divided more or less geographically?

and to which human tradition are you devoted?

 

[post]

Then, he shows the CONTEXT of what he is saying later in the same Letter:
2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given US the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation. So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. WE implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

not sure why you are trying to tell me the context of chapter 2 is chapter 5,
but more concerning is why you chose to omit v.17 -- "if anyone is in Christ"

there's your context. all who are in Christ.

there are no 'super-apostles' ((2 Corinthians 11:5)) - we regard no one anymore after the flesh ((2 Corinthians 5:16))



i haven't kept up with the entire thread, btw -- so, honest question, do you always cherry-pick and leave out the damning evidence immediately adjacent to your selected-for-eisegesis-passages, that clearly overturn your positions?
or is this an isolated incidence?

an honest answer will help me better serve you in the future, to bring you to a knowledge of the truth.

thanks

 

[post]

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states:
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been FOR you in the presence (PERSON) of Christ”

Then, he shows the CONTEXT

but getting back to this, dear child --

there is an immediate context that seems to escape you:

Now whom you forgive anything, I also
(2 Corinthians 2:10a)​

Paul forgives anything 'you' forgive -- that you being the general parishioner in Corinth.
why? because, Christ. because Matthew 18:18 -- which you very clearly falsely ascribe only to Peter, by manner of man-worship, as you have been taught, by men who will you to worship them.

whatsoever you ((contextually all His disciples)) loose shall have already been loosed in heaven.
in the person of Christ.​

Paul forgives anyone that the least person in the congregation of Corinth forgives ((who weirdly have no allegiance whatsoever to Rome nor to Peter, but to Christ, and to Paul inasmuch as Paul, the least of the disciples, is the spiritual father, having founded them and taught them the truth of the gospel - Paul who himself tells them not to give obeisance to any man, but only to God))
Paul says, point blank, anyone whom the Corinthian believers forgive, Paul also forgives, in & through the person of Christ.
exactly like the Spirit dwells in each of them, working the will of God through each of them, exactly as though each one of them is equal part priests in the kingdom of God.

the scripture turns out to be wildly incompatible with papism, goddess-worship and rituals-for-salvation. the scripture is eerily 100% Christ-focused. what kind of man would disallow the commoner from being able to read and understand these scriptures?

this is an unassailable, salient fact in the verse you've brought up, which cannot be brushed aside by any amount of bold, oversized, colorful font - and no amount of your puffing and personal attacks against my character can diminish this truth.

let's continue.

 

[Illuminator]

there's a perfectly good Greek word for 'authority' - ἐξουσία, exousia.
interesting word.
doesn't happen to be the word in 2 Corinthians 2:10
weren't you making a big deal about the exact language earlier?

hmm.

also what's that ring doing on his finger; are not priests forbidden to marry, according to human rules and tradition?
has human tradition received an update i was not aware of?


((i turned off auto-update; it's bothersome))

wow, wrongly accuse much?
i belong to Jesus Christ - not to a 'sect' like you do.
He bought me with His own blood. Acts 20:28

& 16th century, what???
have you heard of Tertullian? Justin Martyr? Ignatius? those are my brothers - from before the RCC sect was born.
they are my brothers in the person of Christ - 1 Corinthians 3:21 - stop boasting in men! heaven has no queen!

um, no, check the record -- you said 'the church throughout' should be translated "the true church"

which is bogus, as demonstrated previously.

 

[Illuminator]

wow, wrongly accuse much?
i belong to Jesus Christ - not to a 'sect' like you do.
He bought me with His own blood. Acts 20:28

& 16th century, what???
have you heard of Tertullian? Justin Martyr? Ignatius? those are my brothers - from before the RCC sect was born.
they are my brothers in the person of Christ - 1 Corinthians 3:21 - stop boasting in men! heaven has no queen!

???The same Tertullian who wrote:
“Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the church should be built,’ who also obtained ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven…’”
Tertullian, On the Prescription Against the Heretics, 22 (c. A.D. 200).

???The same Justin Martyr who wrote:
“He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.”
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 100 (A.D. 155).

???The same Ignatius who wrote:
“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”
Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

If these guys are your brothers, then why do you rail against them and yourself???

 

[Illuminator]

QUESTION: CATHOLIC: Where did the word originate?
ANSWER: It comes from the Greek word Katholikos, which was later Latinized into Catholicus.

QUESTION: What is the meaning of the word?
ANSWER: It means 'Universal', which in itself means, 'of or relating to, or affecting the entire world and ALL peoples therein'. It means, ALL encompassing, comprehensibly broad, general, and containing ALL that is necessary. In summation, it means ALL people in ALL places, having ALL that is necessary, and for ALL time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: But is it Biblical?

ANSWER: Yes it is. It is in Matthew 28:19-20, "Go, therefore and make disciples of ALL nations...teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you; And behold, I am with you ALL days, even unto the consummation of the world." That is a statement of Universality, Katholicos, Catholicus, Catholic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. I have heard that the word 'Catholic' did not come into use for hundreds of years after Jesus Christ founded His Church.

A. Not true. The first recorded use of the word that I could find, is in St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrneans, paragraph 8, of 110 A.D., "Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Undoubtedly the word was in use before the time of this writing.

Q. Some say the Catholic Church ended with Constantine (285-337), with the "Edict of Milan" which he issued in 313, which allowed the Church to practice openly. Others say that is when the Church began. Who is right?

A. Neither is right. The Catholic Church is the true Church founded by Jesus Christ and He guaranteed its perpetuality, Matthew 28:20, and its unfaltering truth, 1Timothy 3:15. Now if either of the arguments in the question were true, then don't you think the Church Fathers would have mentioned it somewhere? Instead, the Church Fathers mention the Catholic Church by Name in hundreds of their writings and spanning many centuries. Ask the ones who say these things to show you documented proof.

Here is what Church Fathers had to say. In every case the word "Catholic" is used. Notice the dates, as they span over a century before Constantine. "The Faith of the Early Fathers", by William A. Jurgens.

Catholic Church...before Constantine

• Ignatius, Letter to the Smyrneans 106AD;
• Martyrdom of St. Polycarp 155AD;
• Clement of Alexandria, Stromateis 202AD;
• Cyprian, Unity of the Catholic Church 251AD;
• Cyprian, Letter to Florentius, 254AD

shortly after Constantine

• "Christian is my name, and Catholic my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart... When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name."

Saint Pacian of Barcelona, Letter to Sympronian, 375 A.D.

I can't think of anything more self refuting than when an anti-Catholic cites the Early Church Fathers.

 

[Illuminator]

ANTI-CATHOLISM IS A TRADITION OF MEN​

 

[post]

If these guys are your brothers, then why do you rail against them and yourself???

how can you say you love your brother if you don't tell him when he's wrong?

 

[post]

QUESTION: CATHOLIC: Where did the word originate?
ANSWER: It comes from the Greek word Katholikos, which was later Latinized into Catholicus.

QUESTION: What is the meaning of the word?
ANSWER: It means 'Universal', which in itself means, 'of or relating to, or affecting the entire world and ALL peoples therein'. It means, ALL encompassing, comprehensibly broad, general, and containing ALL that is necessary. In summation, it means ALL people in ALL places, having ALL that is necessary, and for ALL time.

previously discussed.
we decided i'm catholic, per its actual meaning.

however i'm not papist, i don't regard a goddess, and i know that authority resides with God, rather than men. i am sorry if reading that upsets you, but it does bear constant repeating, given the connotation men have attached to the word catholic.
i also know that 'whatever God does, it is forever' - if He has saved me, i will remain saved: otherwise He has not saved me at all, but only given me a temporary deception of salvation; an illusion waiting to be revealed as damnation.

 

[post]

Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
(1 Peter 5:6-7)​

 

[post]

Peter

interesting..

I who am a fellow elder
(1 Peter 5:1)​

Peter doesn't call himself 'chief' but 'a fellow' among many

the Chief Shepherd
(1 Peter 5:4)​

Peter calls Christ chief, not himself

all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility
(1 Peter 5:5)​

Peter encourages all to be submissive towards each other, not only to the elders, but that the elders also submit one to another ((remember Galatians 2? not to submit in falsehood, as man-serving, but in truth, serving God))

To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
(1 Peter 5:11)​

Peter doesn't ascribe glory to himself, to a bishopric, to Mary, nor to those who sleep.
Peter doesn't appeal to reliquaries. Peter doesn't kneel before statues.
Peter ascribes glory to God


could someone please pass this along to my bro Tertullian?

 

[post]

Now this name of Peter was given him by the Lord, and that in a figure, that he should signify the Church. For seeing that Christ is the rock, Peter is the Christian people. For the rock is the original name. Therefore Peter is so called from the rock; not the rock from Peter; as Christ is not called Christ from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. ‘Therefore,’ he saith, ‘Thou art Peter; and upon this Rock’ which thou hast confessed, upon this Rock which thou hast acknowledged, saying, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, will I build My Church;’ that is upon Myself, the Son of the living God, ‘will I build My Church.’ I will build thee upon Myself, not Myself upon thee. For men who wished to be built upon men, said, ‘I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas,’ who is Peter. But others who did not wish to be built upon Peter, but upon the Rock, said, ‘But I am of Christ.’ And when the Apostle Paul ascertained that he was chosen, and Christ despised, he said, ‘Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?’ And, as not in the name of Paul, so neither in the name of Peter; but in the name of Christ: that Peter might be built upon the Rock, not the Rock upon Peter.

- Augustine ((from On Matthew, sections 1-4))

​

seems legit
i mean this guy recognizes 1 Corinthians 3:11 has to be reconciled

 

[Eternally Grateful]

View attachment 20099

Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
(1 Peter 5:6-7)​

Amazing even Peter demanded people humble themselves under the mighty hand of God and not himself. In fact,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Now this name of Peter was given him by the Lord, and that in a figure, that he should signify the Church. For seeing that Christ is the rock, Peter is the Christian people. For the rock is the original name. Therefore Peter is so called from the rock; not the rock from Peter; as Christ is not called Christ from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. ‘Therefore,’ he saith, ‘Thou art Peter; and upon this Rock’ which thou hast confessed, upon this Rock which thou hast acknowledged, saying, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, will I build My Church;’ that is upon Myself, the Son of the living God, ‘will I build My Church.’ I will build thee upon Myself, not Myself upon thee. For men who wished to be built upon men, said, ‘I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas,’ who is Peter. But others who did not wish to be built upon Peter, but upon the Rock, said, ‘But I am of Christ.’ And when the Apostle Paul ascertained that he was chosen, and Christ despised, he said, ‘Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?’ And, as not in the name of Paul, so neither in the name of Peter; but in the name of Christ: that Peter might be built upon the Rock, not the Rock upon Peter.

- Augustine ((from On Matthew, sections 1-4))

​

seems legit
i mean this guy recognizes 1 Corinthians 3:11 has to be reconciled

Amen bro

The church is built on Christ. The cornerstone. Not peter. One of the foundation stones.