Seventh day Adventism

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Enoch111

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Seventh Day Adventism
I don't watch videos, but I have already created a thread on Seventh Day Adventist Beliefs and all are welcome to read their official position. Their fundamental beliefs regarding salvation are no different than those of conservative Bible-believing Christians. Therefore we cannot -- in good conscience -- call them a "cult".

At the same time they do have some distinctive beliefs with which most Christians would not agree. Their eschatology is similar to that of Protestants, and they believe that the Papacy is the Antichrist (which is simply not true).
 

Taken

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I thought it was a very clear answer.

Obviously you did, and I didn't.

If you do not push back and defend, you will get conquered.

If you have a set of beliefs and know why they are your beliefs, I don't find the need to be PUSHY if others disagree with you or of the need to DEFEND of your beliefs.

I do find in Scripture being armed with the ability to Share with an other who is inquiring; the reasoning for your beliefs....
but not ....
pushing and defending of ones belief...
Nor did I find you giving a satisfactory Scriptural answer for idea of pushing and defending.

Taken
 
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Hidden In Him

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CoreIssue, about your videos, I personally don't think Walter Martin was a very good example as a Christian, regardless of whatever his positions were on the SDA church or anyone else. I decided to click on this one since it had Ankerberg pictured, but I couldn't get very far before noticing that the SDA teacher was far more respectful and courteous towards Martin than the other way around. Doesn't the epistle of James say, "Who is the wise man among you? Let him show it by his behavior."

Brakelite knows full well that I disagree with him on several things, but Brakelite is likewise more godly and respectful in his conduct towards others than Walter Martin was, and by a long shot. I've taken close to a week off from this place and in the interim it looks like things have gotten noticeably uglier in general. I have no problems with you or anyone else starting a thread to bring up and discuss issues, but isn't there enough lack of courtesy, kindness and respect on display already without having to add Walter Martin to the mix? Post Ankerberg if you have to. At least he's a little closer to something I would call godly in the way he addresses people. Your proponent sets a bad example, and makes those he opposes look far more godly by comparison.

Blessings, brother, and wish you well.
 
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CoreIssue

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CoreIssue, about your videos, I personally don't think Walter Martin was a very good example as a Christian, regardless of whatever his positions were on the SDA church or anyone else. I decided to click on this one since it had Ankerberg pictured, but I couldn't get very far before noticing that the SDA teacher was far more respectful and courteous towards Martin than the other way around. Doesn't the epistle of James say, "Who is the wise man among you? Let him show it by his behavior."

Brakelite knows full well that I disagree with him on several things, but Brakelite is likewise more godly and respectful in his conduct towards others than Walter Martin was, and by a long shot. I've taken close to a week off from this place and in the interim it looks like things have gotten noticeably uglier in general. I have no problems with you or anyone else starting a thread to bring up and discuss issues, but isn't there enough lack of courtesy, kindness and respect on display already without having to add Walter Martin to the mix? Post Ankerberg if you have to. At least he's a little closer to something I would call godly in the way he addresses people. Your proponent sets a bad example, and makes those he opposes look far more godly by comparison.

Blessings, brother, and wish you well.

Martin always got right to the point. But so does Ankerberg.

I never had a problem Martin's approach. If you do that is your choice.

You are using the KJV, which I do not.

James 3:13 New International Version (NIV)
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.

Deeds, not behavior.

Some of the best cons rely on behavior to sell their wares.

So the question is what are their deeds.

Martin's deeds were solidly Christian, even where I disagreed with him.

The AC will be a smooth talker, but his deeds as evil as they come.

Christ beat merchants with sticks and overturned their tables and stock. He also called the Pharisees vipers and asses.

I go by the old saying that words are cheap. Actions are not.

Just sharing with you how I look at things, not telling you how you have to.
 

Hidden In Him

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James 3:13 New International Version (NIV)
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.

Deeds, not behavior.

Some of the best cons rely on behavior to sell their wares.

I understand the argument you are making here, but the thrust of James' point was that it is a man's conduct - the way he treats others, and especially verbally - that determines if he is a truly wise man or not.
You are using the KJV, which I do not.

δειξάτω ἐκ τῆς καλῆς ἀναστροφῆς τὰ ἔργα αὐτοῦ ἐν πραΰτητι σοφίας = "Let him demonstrate from good conduct/behavior his works with meekness of wisdom." Meekness of wisdom speaks of the way one presents the wisdom, and I think meekness is a far better descriptive of the way the SDA proponent was acting than the way Martin was.
Just sharing with you how I look at things, not telling you how you have to.

I appreciate it. I don't take away from your point that a smooth talker who is meek in his delivery isn't necessarily always going to be right in what he is teaching. I'm simply saying that when this is absent or questionable, it can throw a cloud over how much the person talking can be trusted as someone to be followed in Christ, and I include myself in this. There have been times when I literally wanted to jump through the computer at someone and I posted like it, but when I was in those moods I wasn't obeying what James was teaching. I'm getting better the older I get, but that's how I can recognize it in others now. I actually see you as pretty well behaved compared to many, so it more had simply to do with the videos you posted.
 
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Helen

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I have no problems with you or anyone else starting a thread to bring up and discuss issues, but isn't there enough lack of courtesy, kindness and respect on display already

Agree.
I have stopped clicking into any of these threads now...it's just that I saw you had posted something in my Alerts.
Someone told me to put certain people on Ignore...which I have now done.
Today on here has been a better and happy day for me...
All the hate and division was getting me down.
 
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brakelite

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Is that supposed to be a defense SDA legalism and its false prophetess Ellen G White?
It is what it is. If you think she is wrong on any point, have at it.

@CoreIssue You are welcome to base your faith on the opinions of men. Me, I don't give a toss what men think of my church, including you, so long as they are willing to be honest in comparing our teachings with scripture, not with their opinion on what scripture says. History reveals a long long line of martyrs for Jesus who the established church burnt, not because they disagreed with scripture, but because they disagreed with the church. Does it bother me then that I disagree with Walter Martin, or with you? Not one bit. However, if you personally have an issue with what I teach on this forum,(not what my church teaches because my church isn't here to defend itself) , then by all means point out my error. But do so using scripture. Not tired old videos of dead prejudicial and bigoted opinionated ecclesiastical self appointed judges of others before whom Christians need not answer.
I will give you, Core Issue, a reason for my hope and faith in Christ if you ask. I will give you a Biblical foundation for that hope. But videos of a dead guy's opinion of our teachings are meaningless. If YOU cannot challenge my faith from scripture, I'm not interested.
 
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Enoch111

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I find it remarkable CI, that when you are asked a question to elaborate on your statements you bow out and put blame on the questioner as if the question is out of order.
That's a part of KJV Derangement Syndrome (similar to Trump Derangement Syndrome).:p
 
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brakelite

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I find it remarkable CI, that when you are asked a question to elaborate on your statements you bow out and put blame on the questioner as if the question is out of order.
Yes. Despite his military background. Fires off a lot of buckshot hoping something will hit but when challenged to be more target specific, gets all gun shy.
 
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Helen

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It is what it is. If you think she is wrong on any point, have at it.

@CoreIssue You are welcome to base your faith on the opinions of men. Me, I don't give a toss what men think of my church, including you, so long as they are willing to be honest in comparing our teachings with scripture, not with their opinion on what scripture says. History reveals a long long line of martyrs for Jesus who the established church burnt, not because they disagreed with scripture, but because they disagreed with the church. Does it bother me then that I disagree with Walter Martin, or with you? Not one bit. However, if you personally have an issue with what I teach on this forum,(not what my church teaches because my church isn't here to defend itself) , then by all means point out my error. But do so using scripture. Not tired old videos of dead prejudicial and bigoted opinionated ecclesiastical self appointed judges of others before whom Christians need not answer.
I will give you, Core Issue, a reason for my hope and faith in Christ if you ask. I will give you a Biblical foundation for that hope. But videos of a dead guy's opinion of our teachings are meaningless. If YOU cannot challenge my faith from scripture, I'm not interested.

Amen.
And aren't we glad that our Father ( unlike some people ) looks at all of us and does NOT see denominations or doctrines. He looks for hearts than 'run after' His heart...He looks for a reflection of His love and Himself.
Black, white, brown, yellow, short , tall , male, female, young, old, are all alike to Him.....He will know who we are by our hearts cry etc
 

Nancy

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Amen.
And aren't we glad that our Father ( unlike some people ) looks at all of us and does NOT see denominations or doctrines. He looks for hearts than 'run after' His heart...He looks for a reflection of His love and Himself.
Black, white, brown, yellow, short , tall , male, female, young, old, are all alike to Him.....He will know who we are by our hearts cry etc

Amen! My mind sometimes forms a vision, of Gods hand reaching into each denomination and picking a few from each...kind of like the wheat and tares I s'pose. Of course He looks to the heart! We are naked before Him, HE know us completely...other people THINK they know the intents of our hearts through our doctrines, beliefs, opinions...So happy that we only need be concerned as to what HE thinks of us ♥
 
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Nancy

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CoreIssue, about your videos, I personally don't think Walter Martin was a very good example as a Christian, regardless of whatever his positions were on the SDA church or anyone else. I decided to click on this one since it had Ankerberg pictured, but I couldn't get very far before noticing that the SDA teacher was far more respectful and courteous towards Martin than the other way around. Doesn't the epistle of James say, "Who is the wise man among you? Let him show it by his behavior."

Brakelite knows full well that I disagree with him on several things, but Brakelite is likewise more godly and respectful in his conduct towards others than Walter Martin was, and by a long shot. I've taken close to a week off from this place and in the interim it looks like things have gotten noticeably uglier in general. I have no problems with you or anyone else starting a thread to bring up and discuss issues, but isn't there enough lack of courtesy, kindness and respect on display already without having to add Walter Martin to the mix? Post Ankerberg if you have to. At least he's a little closer to something I would call godly in the way he addresses people. Your proponent sets a bad example, and makes those he opposes look far more godly by comparison.

Blessings, brother, and wish you well.

I like the John Ankerberg show...watched many on Youtube. That is where I have also watched many discussions/debates with Walter Martin. I found him to be arrogant and pompous and, you are correct Hidden, I believe he does more harm to his own "agenda" with his behavior. I hope you will stick around @Hidden In Him , you are one of the few on here that remind me of this verse: " A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." Proverbs 15:1
And, you never react in kind to those who can be unkind in their words. ♥
 
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gadar perets

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Amen.
And aren't we glad that our Father ( unlike some people ) looks at all of us and does NOT see denominations or doctrines. He looks for hearts than 'run after' His heart...He looks for a reflection of His love and Himself.
Black, white, brown, yellow, short , tall , male, female, young, old, are all alike to Him.....He will know who we are by our hearts cry etc
I agree with everything you wrote except "doctrines". Doctrines are very important and our Father looks for who is believing the truth (correct doctrines) (John 4:23-24). We cannot separate truth and doctrines. If we do not have correct doctrines, then we don't have the truth on that particular issue. Of course, the main truth to have is Yeshua, but the Father desires for us to walk in other truths (doctrines) as well (John 16:13; 17:17). Paul said one of the reasons for Scripture is to believe correct doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16). Right before that he said,

2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
In other words, the love (charity) Paul had towards YHWH and man was very important, but so were Paul's doctrines. Our Father sees both and looks for both. By seeing our doctrines and love, He sees our hearts as well.
 

gadar perets

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The Bible says to judge justly. To do that requires study.

But you don't do that. Thus you defend cults.
Merriam Webster's number 1 definition of "cult" is: : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious.

Judaism regards Christianity as an unorthodox and spurious religion. Therefore, Christianity is a cult in their eyes. In fact, every religion is a cult as viewed by another religion. The "cult" label is used by religionists to strike fear in the hearts of their own members so that they do not look into the claims of the cult. Protestants were forming a new cult in the eyes of Catholics. Yet, the Protestants were often correct in what they were teaching. Sometimes they were wrong. Any "cult" should have their beliefs checked against Scripture. To not examine the beliefs of a cult is to possibly reject truth as Catholics have done with Protestant beliefs such as justification by faith.