Seventh day Adventism

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I totally agree with these words by Ellen G. White. The "testimony" of Isaiah 8:20 refers to the Ten Commandments. The "law" in that verse refers to Torah or the rest of YHWH's commandments, including His holy Feast Days. Concerning the seven annual sabbaths and holy convocations known collectively as the Feasts, Ellen G. White wrote, "If the children of Israel needed the benefit of these holy convocations in their time, how much more do we need them in these last days of peril and conflict!" - 6 Testimonies 39,40. Why, then, don't SDAs keep the Feasts?

WC graffiti.

 

[Phoneman777]

As with the SDA, they push salvation by works

That is total bulldookey. SDAs never teach salvation by works, but by grace through faith. We teach works are the unavoidable consequence of having been saved by grace through faith, while cultists like you teach disobedience to the Ten Commandments, which is not sanctioned anywhere in Scripture.

...identify Jesus as Michael the Archangel...

If you didn't have such a warped understanding of church history, you'd know this teaching used to be considered mainstream and easily proven from Scripture. That when the Son of God manifested Himself as "the angel of the Lord" He took the name Michael meaning "who is like God", just as when He manifested Himself as a man and took the name "Jesus". "Archangel" means "ruler of angels", which is what Christ also was. It was only when the JWs began twisting this to "prove" Christ was only a created being that many got away from this teaching, but consensus is a poor substitute for exegesis when determining what is truth.

deny spirits are eternal as in annihilation of the damned.

To what "spirits" do you refer? I've already shown you that the "spirit" in man is God's Spirit which at the moment of death is withdrawn from the saint, sinner, or any other creature in the animal kingdom just as it was at the moment when God breathed the Spirit of life into the creature the moment it came to life. It is you who choose to believe the lie of Satan in the garden "thou shalt not surely die" because you argue that at death, we keep on living, remembering, thinking, caring, etc., which things the wisest man in the world said absolutely do not happen. Who's the cult member?

They make Ellen G White the arbitrator of the Bible, who gives Bible prophecy not found in the Bible.

We believe she was a modern day prophet who never contradicted one word of Scripture and declared "the Bible and the Bible alone is our creed, the sole bond of union" while Blavatsky, Southcott, Russell, Smith, Casey, Peale, etc. were trying to convince everyone to look to their writings as superior inspiration to Scripture. It is you cultists who deny the gift of the Spirit of Prophecy would be in the last day church when Revelation 12:17 absolutely declares that it would be so.

 

[CoreIssue]

That is total bulldookey. SDAs never teach salvation by works, but by grace through faith. We teach works are the unavoidable consequence of having been saved by grace through faith, while cultists like you teach disobedience to the Ten Commandments, which is not sanctioned anywhere in Scripture.
If you didn't have such a warped understanding of church history, you'd know this teaching used to be considered mainstream and easily proven from Scripture. That when the Son of God manifested Himself as "the angel of the Lord" He took the name Michael meaning "who is like God", just as when He manifested Himself as a man and took the name "Jesus". "Archangel" means "ruler of angels", which is what Christ also was. It was only when the JWs began twisting this to "prove" Christ was only a created being that many got away from this teaching, but consensus is a poor substitute for exegesis when determining what is truth.
To what "spirits" do you refer? I've already shown you that the "spirit" in man is God's Spirit which at the moment of death is withdrawn from the saint, sinner, or any other creature in the animal kingdom just as it was at the moment when God breathed the Spirit of life into the creature the moment it came to life. It is you who choose to believe the lie of Satan in the garden "thou shalt not surely die" because you argue that at death, we keep on living, remembering, thinking, caring, etc., which things the wisest man in the world said absolutely do not happen. Who's the cult member?
We believe she was a modern day prophet who never contradicted one word of Scripture and declared "the Bible and the Bible alone is our creed, the sole bond of union" while Blavatsky, Southcott, Russell, Smith, Casey, Peale, etc. were trying to convince everyone to look to their writings as superior inspiration to Scripture. It is you cultists who deny the gift of the Spirit of Prophecy would be in the last day church when Revelation 12:17 absolutely declares that it would be so.

Very revealing comments.

 

[farouk]

Very revealing comments.

It's still adding to God's Word, isn't it? Galatians makes clear that the believer is not under the law; whereas they are into law-keeping in a big way.

 

[CoreIssue]

It's still adding to God's Word, isn't it? Galatians makes clear that the believer is not under the law; whereas they are into law-keeping in a big way.

Indeed it is.

Originated by Ellen G White, who was a former Millerite who was one of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism and a self-proclaimed prophetess.

 

[Phoneman777]

It's still adding to God's Word, isn't it? Galatians makes clear that the believer is not under the law; whereas they are into law-keeping in a big way.

John says those who claim to know Jesus but break His commandments are liars and have no truth in them.

 

[Phoneman777]

Very revealing comments.

Well, truth is a much needed revelation nowadays.

 

[CoreIssue]

John says those who claim to know Jesus but break His commandments are liars and have no truth in them.

What does the Bible say about false prophets?

 

[CoreIssue]

Well, truth is a much needed revelation nowadays.

There are no Bible level prophets today, including White.

 

[farouk]

John says those who claim to know Jesus but break His commandments are liars and have no truth in them.

Elaborate?

 

[Phoneman777]

Elaborate?

"Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected. Hereby know we that we are in Him." 1 John 2:3-5

Adventists teach we are saved by grace through faith ALONE - not of our works, not keeping the Sabbath or any other works - and the outward evidence that Jesus is now enthroned on the heart and living out His life through us is obedience to His law; the evidence that we're New Covenant Christians is that His law is written on our hearts.

Some like CoreIssue deliberately twist this exposition so that they may get the cart before the horse and then go on to condemn SDA for their own twisted interpretation of what SDAs claim to believe - and despite all efforts to convince them that we know full well that "the carnal mind is enmity with God; it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be" - even if that carnal mind wanted nothing more in the entire universe than to be subject to God's law, it can never obey it without first receiving the transforming power of the New Birth- people like CoreIssue will keep right on twisting the truth "unto their own destruction".

 

[Phoneman777]

There are no Bible level prophets today, including White.

What about Revelation 12:17? Do you believe the Bible? Please don't tell me that only the first 3 books of Revelation are unfolded.

 

[Phoneman777]

What does the Bible say about false prophets?

The fact that there will be false prophets is evidence by that alone there will be true prophets.

Otherwise, the warning would simply be "Beware of those claiming to be prophets."

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

This is what it has been all about all the time, this, and nothing else, That the whole of Christianity including all Sabbath churches, believe Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday against Scripture.

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn
Jesus rose from the dead on the Sabbath is my statement of faith not only because it Scriptural is the only anticipatable and apprehendable probability and possibility, but because it is the only certain, indubitable believable and provable, "It is written, thus saith the Lord".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And let the universal Christian church hear what the SDA refuse to hear, That Mrs E. G. White declared that SUNDAY should - must - be remembered for the Day of Joy and Celebration of Jesus' RESURRECTION, even in heaven! Yes, right in the heart of her most important book, 'The Desire of Ages"!

So what are the different factions of the same persuasion cavil about so?!

 

[brakelite]

And let the universal Christian church hear what the SDA refuse to hear, That Mrs E. G. White declared that SUNDAY should - must - be remembered for the Day of Joy and Celebration of Jesus' RESURRECTION, even in heaven! Yes, right in the heart of her most important book, 'The Desire of Ages"!

So what are the different factions of the same persuasion cavil about so?!

You showed elsewhere a predilection for attempting to bury the SDA church into your opinion of where they are according to your skewed take on SDA's belief in a literal 6 day creation based on one word and pronounced them evolutionists. That was a fail, big time. Perhaps you could quote White's declaration in the DoA so that we don't have to take your word for it. I did try to hunt it down, but couldn't find it. Not that I am calling you a liar or anything, but after your last effort I would simply like a little more evidence other than your loose accusation above. Considering the rest of her writing and her love of the Sabbath and plain statements regarding the mark of the beast etc, if she made such a statement as you have inferred regarding Sunday I would very much like to read it in context. Thanks.
BTW, don't think I support my church regardless of what they teach and practice. I do not accept their version of the trinity, and I vehemently disagree with their policy on abortion. On those two things at least, they've got it wrong. And there are other matters e.g the 1950s book on doctrines that they published as a result of Walter Martins questions. Compromise, and cowardice there for sure. So, Gerhard, I'm interested. But not in make believe. We have enough problems with certain issues as it is without making stuff up.

 

[gadar perets]

Good question. I think personally that it's great to understand fully their significance as shadows and the means to a more complete appreciation of Christ's ministry as sacrifice, priest, prophet, mediator, and intercessor. However, actual observation of the feasts as a ritual I think is a matter of choice rather than obligation such as is the weekly Sabbath. Many SDAs do observe them, and the church itself does not upbraid them for doing so.

Why do you use the word "ritual" for the feasts (annual sabbaths), but "obligation" for the weekly Sabbath? The Bible never calls them rituals, but "appointed times", "statutes", and "commanded". It calls the Day of Atonement a "Sabbath of rest" (Shabbat shabbaton). They are obligations as long as they remain unfulfilled shadows. The fact that the church does not upbraid those who keep them means they also condone not keeping them. That is allowing sin in the camp since breaking YHWH's laws is sin.

 

[gadar perets]

WC graffiti.

What is WC?

 

[Phoneman777]

This is what it has been all about all the time, this, and nothing else, That the whole of Christianity including all Sabbath churches, believe Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday against Scripture.

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn
Jesus rose from the dead on the Sabbath is my statement of faith not only because it Scriptural is the only anticipatable and apprehendable probability and possibility, but because it is the only certain, indubitable believable and provable, "It is written, thus saith the Lord".

Without even checking, I'm pretty sure you're among those who argue that Jesus died on Wednesday because of the whole "three days and three nights" 72 hour period.

There are too many examples of "INCLUSIVE RECKONING" in Scripture to demand that. Jesus died on Friday just before sunset, kept the Sabbath even in His death in the tomb, and then arose early Sunday morning, for a total of 3 days - "three days and three nights" and "three days" in the mind of a Hebrew are synonymous phrases, and is evidenced in the book of Esther where "three days and three nights" is proven to have been less than 72 hours.

1st day: Prep. Day aka Friday - died just before sunset. Inclusive Reckoning counts this as an entire day
2nd day: Jesus slept in the tomb all day Sabbath and past the Sabbath sunset into the first day of the week
3rd day: Jesus rose sometime before dawn of the first day of the week. Inclusive Reckoning counts this as an entire day.

 

[brakelite]

Why do you use the word "ritual" for the feasts (annual sabbaths), but "obligation" for the weekly Sabbath? The Bible never calls them rituals, but "appointed times", "statutes", and "commanded". It calls the Day of Atonement a "Sabbath of rest" (Shabbat shabbaton). They are obligations as long as they remain unfulfilled shadows. The fact that the church does not upbraid those who keep them means they also condone not keeping them. That is allowing sin in the camp since breaking YHWH's laws is sin.

Because the only feast day remaining an unfulfilled shadow is the feast of tabernacles, a feast now impossible to observe by Jews as they have no temple to visit as was compulsory in the original Torah, and impossible for a Gentile to observe for the same reason including the additional idea that it is quite meaningless for anyone other than Jews because we have no memory or history of the wandering in the wilderness.
Christians today, though they are, for the most part unaware, are living in the antitypical day of atonement now. After the second coming a very real fulfilment of the feast of tabernacles will be able to be celebrated in glory.