Should I be rebaptised?

[BreadOfLife]

Not only do members of the rcc believe this because it is repeatedly preached to them, it is why the "catholic" term is used, which falsely tries to claim it is Christ's church, which is why I refuse to reinforce that falsehood. The cult religion is a corrupted counterfeit, I do my homework. You need to be deprogrammed.

If you "do" your homework - then perhaps you could FINALLY provide some actual evidence for your moronic claims instead of regurgitating the same, tired old nonsense.

At least TRY to present some evidence next time . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I knew you would like that comment. But, both you and I know what I am saying when I say 'catholic'. And I have always said that.

Stranger

No, I know what you are attempting to pervert but there is only ONE Catholic Church - and I'm a part of it.
You're not - you're a Protestant.

 

[Pearl]

I give myself to Jesus.. if the opportunity arises I will, but not going to beat myself up on it. Thank-you for asking.
Blessings.

Don't usually check this thread, its gone wild! Lol

It certainly went miles off the point. Love in Jesus. xx

 

[Stranger]

No, I know what you are attempting to pervert but there is only ONE Catholic Church - and I'm a part of it.
You're not - you're a Protestant.

Yes, there is only one catholic church. To be part of it you must be born-again. For some reason you don't like the idea of the new-birth. It involves your faith, not the faith of others.

No infant is born again due to infant baptism and the faith of others.

So, when were you born-again? When did you exercise faith in Christ as your Lord and Saviour. Or, are you just telling me you got wet as an infant and then were given a cracker later?

Yes, I am Protestant and part of the catholic church. Your definition of the 'catholic church' church is what is perverted. You must have your definition so you can rule and lord it over God's heritage as the papacy does so well.

Your big on definitions, but your definition of the catholic church proves how you use 'definitions' to pervert the truth.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, there is only one catholic church. To be part of it you must be born-again. For some reason you don't like the idea of the new-birth. It involves your faith, not the faith of others.

No infant is born again due to infant baptism and the faith of others.

So, when were you born-again? When did you exercise faith in Christ as your Lord and Saviour. Or, are you just telling me you got wet as an infant and then were given a cracker later?

Yes, I am Protestant and part of the catholic church. Your definition of the 'catholic church' church is what is perverted. You must have your definition so you can rule and lord it over God's heritage as the papacy does so well.

Your big on definitions, but your definition of the catholic church proves how you use 'definitions' to pervert the truth.

Stranger

You speak like a person who never read the Old Testament - who never heard of 8-day-old babies being initiated into a Covenant that they couldn't POSSIBLY consent to without the rearing of their parents.

That's the WHOLE problem with Protestantism.
You guys see yourselves as "Lone Rangers": "It's Jesus and ME!"

We Catholics see our relationship with God as a FAMILY setting - just as it was with Israel - because we are the fulfillment of Israel. God is not only our judge - He is our FATHER. It's a shame YOU only see Him as a frightening judge.

Finally - for the 18th time - I was born again at BAPTISM, as Christ Himself prescribed (John 3:5).

 

[Stranger]

You speak like a person who never read the Old Testament - who never heard of 8-day-old babies being initiated into a Covenant that they couldn't POSSIBLY consent to without the rearing of their parents.

That's the WHOLE problem with Protestantism.
You guys see yourselves as "Lone Rangers": "It's Jesus and ME!"

We Catholics see our relationship with God as a FAMILY setting - just as it was with Israel - because we are the fulfillment of Israel. God is not only our judge - He is our FATHER. It's a shame YOU only see Him as a frightening judge.

Finally - for the 18th time - I was born again at BAPTISM, as Christ Himself prescribed (John 3:5).

No one was ever saved by circumcision. Circumcision didn't even come about till the time of Abraham. It identified the Jews as the covenant people, but it did not save any Jew.

When it comes to salvation, it is between Jesus and the individual. Of course the church is involved in bringing the gospel and then in raising up the believers once they placed faith in Christ. But the salvation experience is always between the individual and Jesus. The church cannot exercise saving faith on behalf of anyone. So, no, the Protestant doesn't want to be a lone ranger. He just doesn't want to come under the authority of the Roman church.

Christ did not prescribe infant baptism. Were you an infant when you were baptized? Or, did you later come to Christ by faith and then sought baptism? (John 3:5) says nothing about 'baptism', much less infant baptism.

Why does water baptism follow the baptism of the Spirit? (Acts 10:44-48) Do you recognize the difference between the baptism of the Spirit and that of water?

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

No one was ever saved by circumcision. Circumcision didn't even come about till the time of Abraham. It identified the Jews as the covenant people, but it did not save any Jew.

When it comes to salvation, it is between Jesus and the individual. Of course the church is involved in bringing the gospel and then in raising up the believers once they placed faith in Christ. But the salvation experience is always between the individual and Jesus. The church cannot exercise saving faith on behalf of anyone. So, no, the Protestant doesn't want to be a lone ranger. He just doesn't want to come under the authority of the Roman church.

Christ did not prescribe infant baptism. Were you an infant when you were baptized? Or, did you later come to Christ by faith and then sought baptism? (John 3:5) says nothing about 'baptism', much less infant baptism.

Why does water baptism follow the baptism of the Spirit? (Acts 10:44-48) Do you recognize the difference between the baptism of the Spirit and that of water?

Stranger

You speak as though you've never read the Gospel.
The first 3 chapters of John's Gospel are literally DRENCHED in the transforming waters of Baptism.

Chapter 1 - Jesus is baptized, and what do we see?? WATER and SPIRIT.
Chapter 2 - Jesus transforms Water into wine.
Chapter 3 - Nicodemus asks Jesus how to be born again and Jesus tells him by WATER and SPIRIT (Baptism). Right after this - Jesus and the apostles go a-Baptizin'.

YOUR problem with Baptismal Regeneration is the SAME problem most Protestants who have been duped by the false man-made doctrine of OSAS have. Salvation is a lifelong PROCESS - not a one-time, slam-dunk event. The Bible clearly teaches this:

The Bible assures us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8, 1 Pet. 3:21)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe. I am BAPTIZED.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

There are NO guarantees that cannot fall away and be lost by my OWN doing
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

There is the hope of enduring in faith as long as I cooperate with God's grace (Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 23:37, Matt. 25:31–46, Luke 13:34, Rom. 8:28, 2 Cor. 6:1, Rev. 3:15-16).

 

[Stranger]

You speak as though you've never read the Gospel.
The first 3 chapters of John's Gospel are literally DRENCHED in the transforming waters of Baptism.

Chapter 1 - Jesus is baptized, and what do we see?? WATER and SPIRIT.
Chapter 2 - Jesus transforms Water into wine.
Chapter 3 - Nicodemus asks Jesus how to be born again and Jesus tells him by WATER and SPIRIT (Baptism). Right after this - Jesus and the apostles go a-Baptizin'.

YOUR problem with Baptismal Regeneration is the SAME problem most Protestants who have been duped by the false man-made doctrine of OSAS have. Salvation is a lifelong PROCESS - not a one-time, slam-dunk event. The Bible clearly teaches this:

The Bible assures us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8, 1 Pet. 3:21)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe. I am BAPTIZED.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

There are NO guarantees that cannot fall away and be lost by my OWN doing
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

There is the hope of enduring in faith as long as I cooperate with God's grace (Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 23:37, Matt. 25:31–46, Luke 13:34, Rom. 8:28, 2 Cor. 6:1, Rev. 3:15-16).

As I said, (John 3:5) is not talking about baptism, much less infant baptism. The only baptism that is exercised in the first three chapters of (John) is the baptism associated with the gospel of the Kingdom. Just like the later Christians baptism, it is the result of those who already believe. The water does not produce the transformation, the faith of the believer does.

(John 1:11-12) "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."

My problem with baptismal regeneration is that it is not true. The Roman churches view of infant baptism is equally not true.

So, were you infant baptized? Do you recognize that there is Spirit baptism?

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

As I said, (John 3:5) is not talking about baptism, much less infant baptism. The only baptism that is exercised in the first three chapters of (John) is the baptism associated with the gospel of the Kingdom. Just like the later Christians baptism, it is the result of those who already believe. The water does not produce the transformation, the faith of the believer does.

(John 1:11-12) "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."

My problem with baptismal regeneration is that it is not true. The Roman churches view of infant baptism is equally not true.

So, were you infant baptized? Do you recognize that there is Spirit baptism?
Stranger

There you go yet again asking me if I was baptized as an infant when I have answered this on numerous occasions.
There are only TWO possible reasons for this:
a. You're not very bright.
b. You've run OUT of useful things to say on the topic.
In your defense, I think the latter is true.

You're also wrong about John 3:5 not being about Baptism. It couldn't be ANY clearer.
Jesus usually used tangible means to heal. He used mud to heal the blind man, He put spit on the mute's tongue, he used water to create wine, etc. He could have done ALL of these things from NOTHING but chose to use physical means to convey faith to a physical people.

The SAME is true for Baptism. Nothing "magical" about the water itself - but it is the means by which we are Baptized by God in the Spirit. God doesn't send actual "fire" down on people and we are not "set on fire" by our pastors when we are Baptized. In case you didn't know - it is a SPIRITUAL fire that occurs at Baptism.

 

[tabletalk]

You speak as though you've never read the Gospel.
The first 3 chapters of John's Gospel are literally DRENCHED in the transforming waters of Baptism.

Chapter 1 - Jesus is baptized, and what do we see?? WATER and SPIRIT.
Chapter 2 - Jesus transforms Water into wine.
Chapter 3 - Nicodemus asks Jesus how to be born again and Jesus tells him by WATER and SPIRIT (Baptism). Right after this - Jesus and the apostles go a-Baptizin'.

YOUR problem with Baptismal Regeneration is the SAME problem most Protestants who have been duped by the false man-made doctrine of OSAS have. Salvation is a lifelong PROCESS - not a one-time, slam-dunk event. The Bible clearly teaches this:

The Bible assures us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8, 1 Pet. 3:21)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe. I am BAPTIZED.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

There are NO guarantees that cannot fall away and be lost by my OWN doing
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

There is the hope of enduring in faith as long as I cooperate with God's grace (Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 23:37, Matt. 25:31–46, Luke 13:34, Rom. 8:28, 2 Cor. 6:1, Rev. 3:15-16).

You said, concerning salvation: "There are NO guarantees that cannot fall away and be lost by my OWN doing"

Quote from John MacArthur, 2005:
"Catholicism isn’t a different denomination, it’s a different religion."
So true.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You said, concerning salvation: "There are NO guarantees that cannot fall away and be lost by my OWN doing"

Quote from John MacArthur, 2005:5
"Catholicism isn’t a different denomination, it’s a different religion."
So true.

Looks like a typo. What I meant to say was:
"There are NO guarantees that I cannot fall away and be lost by my OWN doing."

Clearly, this is true. All you need to do is read the following passages of Scripture to see what I mean (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

As for your John MacArthur quote - he is a complete LIAR.
I've been listening to and reading his manure for about 20 years. His treatise, "The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood" is filled with so much perversion and deception - it's difficult to understand how you guys can take him seriously. He repeatedly quotes Lorraine Boettner, whose book, "Roman Catholicism", has been totally debunked by Catholics AND Protestants alike.

 

[Pearl]

My baptism.

 

[BreadOfLife]

View attachment 6111

My baptism.

Quick question - and please don't take this the wrong way because I certainly don't mean any insult by it, but - where do you suppose the method of leaning the person backward in the water came from?

I only ask because it appears as though this is the method that was used at YOUR Baptism.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Stranger]

There you go yet again asking me if I was baptized as an infant when I have answered this on numerous occasions.
There are only TWO possible reasons for this:
a. You're not very bright.
b. You've run OUT of useful things to say on the topic.
In your defense, I think the latter is true.

You're also wrong about John 3:5 not being about Baptism. It couldn't be ANY clearer.
Jesus usually used tangible means to heal. He used mud to heal the blind man, He put spit on the mute's tongue, he used water to create wine, etc. He could have done ALL of these things from NOTHING but chose to use physical means to convey faith to a physical people.

The SAME is true for Baptism. Nothing "magical" about the water itself - but it is the means by which we are Baptized by God in the Spirit. God doesn't send actual "fire" down on people and we are not "set on fire" by our pastors when we are Baptized. In case you didn't know - it is a SPIRITUAL fire that occurs at Baptism.

Where did you tell me you were baptized as an infant? You keep telling me you were born-again by baptism. You want me to assume this means infant baptism. I want you to tell me if it was by infant baptism you were born again.

No, it is clear that the term 'water' is used in (John 3:5). Nothing is said of 'water baptism'. You are equating water baptism with faith. And they are not the same. You are saying water baptism is that which God uses to implement the saving of the soul, the being born-again. But that is not so. It is faith alone that causes God to move on the believers behalf. Thus you, and the Roman church I am sure, have made no distinction between water baptism and the baptism of the Spirit.

John is clear that the two are not the same. (John 1:33) "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thous shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." One is water, one is Spirit.

Note the order Peter gives also. (Acts 10:44-48) "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" First the Spirit, then the water. The water does not cause the Spirit's work. The water comes afterward identifying the one in whom the Spirit worked. See also the same account in (11:15-17). So, yes, a spiritual fire occurs at baptism, but that is not water baptism. That is the baptism of the Spirit.

Regeneration, or our being born-again, is described as a washing. (Titus 3:5) "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Thus (John 3:5) says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." This act of regeneration is one act by the Holy Spirit. It is a purifying and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Thus we are born-again of water and Spirit.

Jesus made reference to the Old Testament concerning this when he told Nicodemus that he should know these things. (John 3:10 So what was Christ referring to? He was referring to (Ez. 36:24-27). "...I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean...A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:..." This is not water baptism. This is the same one act of regeneration by which the believer is cleansed and born-again. This is the washing of regeneration.

This washing of regeneration, this being born-again by water and Spirit, is not the result of being water baptized. It is the result of faith in Christ. (John 1:12) (John 3:18) (John 4:39-42) (Acts 8:37-38) etc. etc. etc. Then comes water baptism. Thus you see how infant baptism does nothing for the infant other than get him wet. Faith in Christ must be present by the one believing and being baptized. And when it is, water baptism does have a good affect upon our salvation. (1 Peter 3:20-22) It gives us a good conscience towards God.

Stranger

 

[tabletalk]

Looks like a typo. What I meant to say was:
"There are NO guarantees that I cannot fall away and be lost by my OWN doing."

Clearly, this is true. All you need to do is read the following passages of Scripture to see what I mean (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

As for your John MacArthur quote - he is a complete LIAR.
I've been listening to and reading his manure for about 20 years. His treatise, "The Scandal of the Catholic Priesthood" is filled with so much perversion and deception - it's difficult to understand how you guys can take him seriously. He repeatedly quotes Lorraine Boettner, whose book, "Roman Catholicism", has been totally debunked by Catholics AND Protestants alike.

Light and darkness: your statement in red is clearly false.
It is "Bad News", not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus.
It is one reason that the Catholic Church (church of Rome) is not Christian.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Light and darkness: your statement in red is clearly false.
It is "Bad News", not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus.
It is one reason that the Catholic Church (church of Rome) is not Christian.

Wrong.

OSAS is not a Christian doctrine. This myth is a doctrine of men invented in the 16th century by your Protestant Fathers. NOWHERE do the Scriptures guarantee that you can never fall away and be lost - when you read the Bible in its proper context.

The problem with you OSASers is that you must cherry-pick Scripture in order to arrive at this perverted doctrine and ignore ALL of the other verses that speak against it . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind, deaf and dumb person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Where did you tell me you were baptized as an infant? You keep telling me you were born-again by baptism. You want me to assume this means infant baptism. I want you to tell me if it was by infant baptism you were born again.

No, it is clear that the term 'water' is used in (John 3:5). Nothing is said of 'water baptism'. You are equating water baptism with faith. And they are not the same. You are saying water baptism is that which God uses to implement the saving of the soul, the being born-again. But that is not so. It is faith alone that causes God to move on the believers behalf. Thus you, and the Roman church I am sure, have made no distinction between water baptism and the baptism of the Spirit.

John is clear that the two are not the same. (John 1:33) "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thous shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." One is water, one is Spirit.

Note the order Peter gives also. (Acts 10:44-48) "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" First the Spirit, then the water. The water does not cause the Spirit's work. The water comes afterward identifying the one in whom the Spirit worked. See also the same account in (11:15-17). So, yes, a spiritual fire occurs at baptism, but that is not water baptism. That is the baptism of the Spirit.

Regeneration, or our being born-again, is described as a washing. (Titus 3:5) "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Thus (John 3:5) says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." This act of regeneration is one act by the Holy Spirit. It is a purifying and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Thus we are born-again of water and Spirit.

Jesus made reference to the Old Testament concerning this when he told Nicodemus that he should know these things. (John 3:10 So what was Christ referring to? He was referring to (Ez. 36:24-27). "...I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean...A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:..." This is not water baptism. This is the same one act of regeneration by which the believer is cleansed and born-again. This is the washing of regeneration.

This washing of regeneration, this being born-again by water and Spirit, is not the result of being water baptized. It is the result of faith in Christ. (John 1:12) (John 3:18) (John 4:39-42) (Acts 8:37-38) etc. etc. etc. Then comes water baptism. Thus you see how infant baptism does nothing for the infant other than get him wet. Faith in Christ must be present by the one believing and being baptized. And when it is, water baptism does have a good affect upon our salvation. (1 Peter 3:20-22) It gives us a good conscience towards God.

Stranger

WRONG.

Matt. 3:13-17
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the WATER. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the SPIRIT of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

THIS is the "Water and Spirit" that Jesus is talking about in John 3:5 - the Water and Spirit of BAPTISM.

As for MY Baptism - I have explained it to you ad nauseam - and EVERY time you want to veer attention away from your losing argument - you ask me about it yet again. I'm not playing your games anymore. You know ALL about my Baptism.

As for Peter and Cornelius - here's a little hermeneutical advice for you:
NEVER base your doctrines on an exception. The few exceptions in the NT such as the Baptism of Cornelius and his entire household were to further the Gospel message.

NOWHERE does it speak of ANY of the 3000 or so who were Baptized at Pentecost being indwelt with the Holy Spirit PRIOR to Baptism. In fact - Peter gives the chronological order explicitly:
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. AND you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

He doesn't say, "NOW that you are filled with the Holy Spirit - it's time to be Baptized."

Finally - as to the water - I have already explained to you that the water is just water. There is nothing "miraculous" or "magical" about the water.
It is simply the tangible means of the conferring of the Holy Spirit.

The NT ALSO talks about conferring the Holy Spirit on people by the laying of hands. Is there something "supernatural" or "magical" about hands?? NO.
It is simply the MEANS by which God has prescribed His healing.

Read James 5:14 about praying over the sick. It says to "anoint" them with oil. Is there something "supernatural" or "magical" about the oil?? NO.
It is simply the MEANS by which God had prescribed His healing.

YOUR problem is disobedience.
Good luck with that . . .

 

[Marymog]

Light and darkness: your statement in red is clearly false.
It is "Bad News", not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus.
It is one reason that the Catholic Church (church of Rome) is not Christian.

If Catholics are not Christian then what are they?

Curious Mary

 

[Pearl]

If Catholics are not Christian then what are they?

Curious Mary

Some Roman Catholics are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. Some Methodists are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. Some Anglicans are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. They may all believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but without a personal relationship with Him that's all they are - churchgoers. You have to ask Jesus into your life to become a Christian. Repent of your sins, seek God's forgiveness and ask Jesus into your life. That's when re-birth occurs.

 

[Marymog]

Some Roman Catholics are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. Some Methodists are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. Some Anglicans are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. They may all believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but without a personal relationship with Him that's all they are - churchgoers. You have to ask Jesus into your life to become a Christian. Repent of your sins, seek God's forgiveness and ask Jesus into your life. That's when re-birth occurs.

Thank you Pearl.

According to your statement the true mark of a Christian is someone that:

Believes in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit
Repents of their sins
Seek God's forgiveness
Ask Jesus into their life
Have a personal relationship with Him

You believe all others are just "churchgoers".

Scripture says there is more we must do: 1 Corinthians 11:24, John 6:54, Matthew 28:19

Mary